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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    That is currently unclear, but looks to be sorted out by Flash War.

    Here's what we know so far. The original Crisis happened because the League knew who The Monitor was when he showed up in Metal, which also featured the Anti-Matter Tower from Infinite Crisis, which could not have taken place without the first Crisis.

    However, nobody but a handful of people even know Wally West even exists, so we don't know if Barry died then. Like with Post-Crisis continuity, nobody remembers Supergirl dying either, although she still did.
    Oh, sorry. I was talking about Post Crisis continuity. Post Crisis, no one is supposed to remember it happened, so how did people remember how Barry died?

    I don't even know that it's somewhat canon in New 52/Rebirth. I just assume they don't and Barry never died.

    Back to topic, I just checked out The Flash Rebirth just in case. Yeah, there's no way I can read this. There are too many references to stories past including JSA and The Flash family. I'm looking at this and I don't know if this is supposed to be Pre or Post Crisis JSA. Maybe both.

    218e55e0fcd70f76f31cbb27720b1061._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg

    The Flash series between that and Flashpoint is even worse because they involve an event. Once they include event, I want to know about it as well and will end up reading Green Lantern too, and once there I might as well read the whole Post Crisis. The Flash between Rebirth and Button is cleaner since the focus on the present. The most they go back is New 52, which I'm already familiar.

    I checked out The New 52 Flash as well and now I remember why I stopped reading it. Justice League established Barry fought talking gorilla 5 years ago, but in The Flash they only met right after the first story arc in the present. So I decided since Justice League is the spine of the line and Darkseid War is required reading for Rebirth, I should follow that instead.

    I dropped Action Comics because of similar reason. The Final Days of Superman is required for Rebirth, but since it contains Superman/Wonder woman that's now already erased, I decided not to pursue that either.

    So that's left Justice League - Darkseid War as the only book I still want to read from New 52.
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 04-28-2018 at 01:53 PM.

  2. #32
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    In Post Crisis continuity, the only part from Crisis on Infinite Earths that supposedly happened was the last issue, when the Anti-Monitor made his last attempt to destroy the new and single universe, and all heroes traveled to the antimatter universe to fight him, but without Superman from E2, Superboy Prime and apparently, Wonder Woman.

    During the second to last story from Mark Waid's The Flash run with Wally, Chain Lightning, Wally's memories shows that another part from COIE that was still canon was the antimatter cannon, and Barry sacrificed his life in order to destroy it. It's interesting because in that story, Wally has to save Barry sometime before COIE starts, so he can sacrifice later to save the universe during COIE. Wally fails in his mission and the universe was altered and completely destroyed, leaving only the antimatter universe ruled by Anti-Monitor. At the end Wally fixed his failure.

    And Flash: Rebirth definitely has a lot of references to Waid's run, Morrison-Millar's mini-run, and Johns'run -over 150 issues- from Wally's series.

    The Flash series between Rebirth and Flashpoint doesn't really involve Brightest Day story, you only need to know Captain Boomerang and Thawne came back to life at the end of Blackest Night, and they "earn" his life in Brightest Day. That's all, unless curiosity gets the better of you

  3. #33
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batgrayson View Post
    In Post Crisis continuity, the only part from Crisis on Infinite Earths that supposedly happened was the last issue, when the Anti-Monitor made his last attempt to destroy the new and single universe, and all heroes traveled to the antimatter universe to fight him, but without Superman from E2, Superboy Prime and apparently, Wonder Woman.

    During the second to last story from Mark Waid's The Flash run with Wally, Chain Lightning, Wally's memories shows that another part from COIE that was still canon was the antimatter cannon, and Barry sacrificed his life in order to destroy it. It's interesting because in that story, Wally has to save Barry sometime before COIE starts, so he can sacrifice later to save the universe during COIE. Wally fails in his mission and the universe was altered and completely destroyed, leaving only the antimatter universe ruled by Anti-Monitor. At the end Wally fixed his failure.

    And Flash: Rebirth definitely has a lot of references to Waid's run, Morrison-Millar's mini-run, and Johns'run -over 150 issues- from Wally's series.

    The Flash series between Rebirth and Flashpoint doesn't really involve Brightest Day story, you only need to know Captain Boomerang and Thawne came back to life at the end of Blackest Night, and they "earn" his life in Brightest Day. That's all, unless curiosity gets the better of you
    Well, I know how Boomerang died. Tim's father. Identity Crisis.

    I read on Blackest Night preview because might as well and hey, it has a summary on how Thawne died. I just don't know when or which series.

    It just doesn't feel right reading a tie in without the main event. Like, I can read main event without the tie in, but the other way around is weird.

    The 2009 series itself seems pretty light and straight forward, but I'm not sure if I need it, especially now that I know I won't be able to read The Flash Rebirth. I judge them by relevancy to current event. I don't think I need to know that Thawne was once dead and come back to life, especially now that... well... he's dead again. ^^

    66e24e1e224c5f6b41bfbc9efb155790._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg

    The first death and resurrection don't seem quite important in comparison.

  4. #34
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    Thawne's first death was on The Flash #324, from 1983. The Flash issues 23-27, "Running Scared", are a consequence of The Button, and it is also related to the missing years plot.

  5. #35
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batgrayson View Post
    Thawne's first death was on The Flash #324, from 1983. The Flash issues 23-27, "Running Scared", are a consequence of The Button, and it is also related to the missing years plot.
    Well, unless they actually talk about it or it becomes crucial in the present, that's too far back.

    I decided to go with Justice League for New 52 instead of Flash for the above reason, but Justice League also involves a lot of books in their Trinity War-Forever Evil crossover so it's gonna take some time to sort out.

    ...actually, since the Superman Wonder Woman relationship is erased, Justice League is only semi non-canon. So bye-bye New 52. Not really gonna miss it since the less to read the better.

    So instead, the Rebirth Batman path Reading Order coz I'm personally interested in Batfam.

    Batman Rebirth #1 = Nightwing Rebirth #1
    Titans Vol. 1 The Return of Wally West
    Detective Comics #934
    Nightwing #1
    Batman #1-6 = Nightwing #2-4 = Detective Comics 935-940 = Batgirl Vol. 1 Beyond Burnside
    Night of The Monster Men
    Nightwing #7-8 = Teen Titans Vol. 1 Damian Knows Best
    Nightwing Vol. 2 Back in Bludhaven = Detective Comics Vol. 2 The Victim Syndicate
    Batman Vol. 2 I am Suicide
    Batman #16-20
    Batman/The Flash The Button

    = means happening at around the same time.
    The... titles that are not part of the Night of Monster Men crossover is just there to give me info on timeline placement. I'm... gonna combine it with the Flash timeline later.

    Oh yeah. When's Doomsday Clock in relation to the others?

  6. #36
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    Doomsday Clock is supposed to be one year ahead than the rest of the series. That's the reason of why Batman has a new suit in Doomsday Clock, and why the world doesn't trust in superheroes anymore, only in Superman.

  7. #37
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batgrayson View Post
    Doomsday Clock is supposed to be one year ahead than the rest of the series. That's the reason of why Batman has a new suit in Doomsday Clock, and why the world doesn't trust in superheroes anymore, only in Superman.
    Okay, if that's the case then that's it for Manhattan for now.

    I guess the next step should be Mr. Oz. I am not looking forward to this. The Superman Reborn represents what's wrong with comics for me, as they rewrite the lore in story using bullshit magic power instead of DC's meeting room. This allow writers or editors to be inconsistent and make controversy because everthing can be reset by bullshit magic. It's an incentive not to be careful with character treatment.

    Actually, Manhattan is that type of character too. I think I'm more tolerant to him because I assume he's going to be an official reboot that will relaunch new #1 like Flashpoint instead of a sudden, partial reboot that happens in the middle of an ongoing.

    Since Oz is directly related to Manhattan, I know I'm going to have to read it eventually, but I like to put it off as long as possible because I already dislike the premise of what's happening. I also feel like I'll be more sympathetic towards the current Superfamily plot if I read Post Crisis first.

    So, alongside Wally West, Superman will be my post-crisis homework.

    Now. The story I'm actually interested. Metal is a lore porn, which is the gatekeeper for me, but it's also the all-encompassing story set in the present with hype new books coming up. Batman is already on The Button list so all I need is to continue. I'll be tracking those issues next.

    The only thing I'm afraid of is if the lore, namely Batman and Hawkman, also go back to Post Crisis. If that is the case, then it's Post Crisis party for everyone, because there'll be no point in reading Rebirth if this is what they keep doing.

  8. #38
    Astonishing Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Okay, if that's the case then that's it for Manhattan for now.

    I guess the next step should be Mr. Oz. I am not looking forward to this. The Superman Reborn represents what's wrong with comics for me, as they rewrite the lore in story using bullshit magic power instead of DC's meeting room. This allow writers or editors to be inconsistent and make controversy because everthing can be reset by bullshit magic. It's an incentive not to be careful with character treatment.

    Actually, Manhattan is that type of character too. I think I'm more tolerant to him because I assume he's going to be an official reboot that will relaunch new #1 like Flashpoint instead of a sudden, partial reboot that happens in the middle of an ongoing.

    Since Oz is directly related to Manhattan, I know I'm going to have to read it eventually, but I like to put it off as long as possible because I already dislike the premise of what's happening. I also feel like I'll be more sympathetic towards the current Superfamily plot if I read Post Crisis first.

    So, alongside Wally West, Superman will be my post-crisis homework.

    Now. The story I'm actually interested. Metal is a lore porn, which is the gatekeeper for me, but it's also the all-encompassing story set in the present with hype new books coming up. Batman is already on The Button list so all I need is to continue. I'll be tracking those issues next.

    The only thing I'm afraid of is if the lore, namely Batman and Hawkman, also go back to Post Crisis. If that is the case, then it's Post Crisis party for everyone, because there'll be no point in reading Rebirth if this is what they keep doing.
    Metal has merely opened the gates for more events going forward, and reintroduced the Hawks (in a way). But several Rebirth stories actually directly referenced Metal, and Batman Who Laughs is still running around in The Immortals.

    Rebirth as a whole though, has been to re-establish Post-Crisis events and characters. To a degree at least. Until things are revealed going forward, there is a LOT from post-Crisis that is still either missing, or not even mentioned right now.

  9. #39
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Okay since Nightwing is already involved in Night of The Monster Men on the way to The Button and actually more involved in Metal than the main Batman series, I will hold Batman and switch gear to Nightwing after The Button.

    Nightwing Vol. 3 Nightwing Must Die
    Teen Titans #6-7
    Dark Nights Metal The Resistance = Dark Nights Metal = Dark Nights Metal = Dark Nights Metal Dark Knights Rising

    Huh. That was easy. I don't really care about Green Arrow while Justice League and Suicide Squad's intro to Metal is actually in the crossover issue so I don't need the earlier books. I...

    Oh no...

    Leading directly into this blockbuster event, DARK DAYS: THE ROAD TO METAL collects DARK DAYS: THE FORGE #1 and DARK DAYS: THE CASTING #1, as well as classic DC stories that built the foundations of METAL, including FINAL CRISIS #6-7, THE RETURN OF BRUCE WAYNE #1, BATMAN #38-39, NIGHTWING #17 and more!

    They include The Forge and The Casting in the You Haven't Read This Collection?! I thought this is going to be easy.

    Well, bye, Duke and Hal, because I already plan to get Final Crisis, Return of Bruce Wayne and Endgame one day. So there's no way I'm picking this one.

    I hate when they do that.

    I think I need to finish up on Snyder Batman first though, since this is a continuation . Now this is a New 52 series I can follow since they don't change anything.

    I forgot that the Batman series has a connection to Grayson, Batman Eternal, Superman Truth and Forever Evil, all of which already has half of its continuity changed.

    I hate retcon.

    I think I'll just cancel this whole plan and just go with the new series launching after No Justice.
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 05-05-2018 at 09:30 PM.

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