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  1. #16
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jb681131 View Post
    Sorry for my wording, but that's a stupid reasonning.
    Why? Enjoyment is subjective. The plot is not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clark_Kent View Post
    Yikes lol Don't listen to that guy. If you want to only follow Dr. Manhattan, then you don't need to go back any further than the Rebirth special, unless you have not read Watchmen. You can skip Flash of Two Worlds, all the various Crisis stories, and Before Watchmen (I enjoyed Before Watchmen very much, but I'm 99.9% sure it will never be referenced in the Dr. M Rebirth story).

    Basically, read Watchmen if you haven't already, and then start with the Rebirth Special. All of those other stories are great, no doubt, but if you wanted a Dr. Manhattan mega-arc to read, they are not even relevant to things.
    Okay, since there are differing opinions on back stories, let me explain how I view this first so you all can adjust your recommendation.

    Most characters are not aware of Manhattan's existence. The ones who do only saw glimpses and don't know his name. In this case, Watchmen as Manhattan's back story is only relevant for Doomsday Clock. I already read Watchmen and Doomsday Clock is on the list, so this one's a non-issue.

    Next, these are what I know about the other back issues and their relevance to current story arcs.
    Darkseid War is relevant to Wonder Woman, who is fighting Grail, Darkseid, and finding out about her brother.
    Death and Return of Superman provides context to Doomsday and The Anti Superman Team.
    Flashpoint is relevant to The Button and Flash War.

    Now since the story I want to prioritize is The Manhattan Mystery, we cross reference The Manhattan Effect List everybody else already contribute with The Back Stories List.
    Wonder Woman hasn't been connected with Manhattan, so for now her book and Darkseid War are out... or... in, since Batman was talking about the Mobius chair, but I already know what that is, so for me it's out.
    Batman and The Flash have been affected by Manhattan, so their series and Flashpoint are in.

    I can see the list changing once I actually read the books or when I get new info, but for now that's how we're going to narrow it down.

  2. #17
    Astonishing Member Clark_Kent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Why? Enjoyment is subjective. The plot is not.



    Okay, since there are differing opinions on back stories, let me explain how I view this first so you all can adjust your recommendation.

    Most characters are not aware of Manhattan's existence. The ones who do only saw glimpses and don't know his name. In this case, Watchmen as Manhattan's back story is only relevant for Doomsday Clock. I already read Watchmen and Doomsday Clock is on the list, so this one's a non-issue.

    Next, these are what I know about the other back issues and their relevance to current story arcs.
    Darkseid War is relevant to Wonder Woman, who is fighting Grail, Darkseid, and finding out about her brother.
    Death and Return of Superman provides context to Doomsday and The Anti Superman Team.
    Flashpoint is relevant to The Button and Flash War.

    Now since the story I want to prioritize is The Manhattan Mystery, we cross reference The Manhattan Effect List everybody else already contribute with The Back Stories List.
    Wonder Woman hasn't been connected with Manhattan, so for now her book and Darkseid War are out... or... in, since Batman was talking about the Mobius chair, but I already know what that is, so for me it's out.
    Batman and The Flash have been affected by Manhattan, so their series and Flashpoint are in.

    I can see the list changing once I actually read the books or when I get new info, but for now that's how we're going to narrow it down.
    If you wanted to include some of the more recent stories/runs you mention, then you certainly can. The point of my post was just that most of the things that other guy said to read are absolutely irrelevant to what you're trying to do. There's no need to go through Flash of Two Worlds, Crisis/Infinite Earths, Infinite Crisis, 52, etc. All great stories and should be read for sure, but if your focus is on the Manhattan thread then they are completely irrelevant.
    "Darkseid...always hated music..."

    Every post I make, it should be assumed by the reader that the following statement is attached: "It's all subjective. What works for me doesn't necessarily work for you, and vice versa, and that's ok. You may have a different opinion on it, but this is mine. That's the wonderful thing about being a comics fan, it's all subjective."

  3. #18
    Incredible Member jb681131's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Why? Enjoyment is subjective. The plot is not.
    You said:

    "I usually determine what's good or not for myself, so I'll take what's objectively necessary. The bolded one then.

    I was hoping they won't be needed since I prefer to start from DCU Rebirth #1 onwards instead of backward, but if they're necessary then it's in."


    Let me brake down what you sayd and what I think of it:

    "I was hoping they won't be needed" - Everything from Rebirth has roots before rebirth ! Rebirth is a like a merge of the pre-Flaspoint timeline and the New52 timeline.

    "I prefer to start from DCU Rebirth #1" - I, on the other hand, prefer to start from stories that are by most considered very good or more. Because most long time comics reader will tell you that no hero/series is at its best since Rebirth.

    "I usually determine what's good or not for myself" - True, me too, but no one has the time to read it all, so you either read about a character you like, or because it's an artist/writter you like, or because there is something that appeals to you or because it was highly recommended to you !


    To conclude, limiting your reading to Rebirth #1 is missing out on better books and stories. And that is not my sole opinion, but most of long time readers'.

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jb681131 View Post
    You said:

    "I usually determine what's good or not for myself, so I'll take what's objectively necessary. The bolded one then.

    I was hoping they won't be needed since I prefer to start from DCU Rebirth #1 onwards instead of backward, but if they're necessary then it's in."


    Let me brake down what you sayd and what I think of it:

    "I was hoping they won't be needed" - Everything from Rebirth has roots before rebirth ! Rebirth is a like a merge of the pre-Flaspoint timeline and the New52 timeline.

    "I prefer to start from DCU Rebirth #1" - I, on the other hand, prefer to start from stories that are by most considered very good or more. Because most long time comics reader will tell you that no hero/series is at its best since Rebirth.

    "I usually determine what's good or not for myself" - True, me too, but no one has the time to read it all, so you either read about a character you like, or because it's an artist/writter you like, or because there is something that appeals to you or because it was highly recommended to you !


    To conclude, limiting your reading to Rebirth #1 is missing out on better books and stories. And that is not my sole opinion, but most of long time readers'.
    I already did read the characters I like, by writers I like, that appeal to me or recommended to me. That is not the question of the thread. What I want to read now is the most encompassing plot of the current continuity. Just my luck it happens to be about fixing the timeline.

    I know it's broad. Rebirth #1 itself said on the first page I have to read the last arcs of New 52, but since Superman got rebooted I figured maybe I don't have to... but then previous continuities keep popping up so maybe I still need to know about the past. There's a lot to unbox, so I decided to focus is in the present first and that's why I asked about Manhattan sightings in Rebirth.

    So for now, let's narrow down what we have in the current stories. I haven't even determined which character I want to follow yet. Once that's done, we'll go back and discuss the back stories.

  5. #20
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    Another Manhattanīs sighting was in Hal Jordan and the Green Lantern Corps. He divided Kyle's white ring into seven rings from the different corps, maybe because the White Light of Creation is very powerful and he didn't want to take risks that it would be used against him.

    Manhattan wasn't referenced, but Mr. Oz was looking those events. Also, Oz kidnapped Doomsday, Mxyzptlik and a new villain from Superman series, because they were dangerous to Superman. The weird thing is that he also kidnapped Tim Drake/Red Robin at the end of Detective Comics first story arc from Rebirth.

  6. #21
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batgrayson View Post
    Another Manhattanīs sighting was in Hal Jordan and the Green Lantern Corps. He divided Kyle's white ring into seven rings from the different corps, maybe because the White Light of Creation is very powerful and he didn't want to take risks that it would be used against him.
    Oh is that why he's Green again?

    There's been a lot of sightings but sounds like little developments. So far it seems the most development is from The Button, Doomsday Clock, and Flash War. Maybe Oz Effect. Which is fine, so there's not too much to read.
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 04-27-2018 at 06:26 AM.

  7. #22
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Looks like the fastest way to The Button is The Flash.
    The Flash Vol. 1 Lightning Strikes Twice
    The Flash Vol. 2 Speed of Darkness
    The Flash Vol. 3 Rogues Reloaded
    Batman/The Flash: The Button
    The Batman way has a crossover and character death in it, so it will take longer, but will provide context to the Psycho Pirate mask in The Button.

    Some of the panels in The Flash referenced New 52 story arcs, but I already know about them.

    The main problem though, is this page and what comes next. Eobard talks a lot about the spoilers in Flashpoint a lot.
    Batman-21-6.jpg
    It seems like Flashpoint is still needed... but then he's dead. This is the kind thing that makes me confused about the necessity of back stories, because it looks like... at least this one... is only relevant to this particular story.
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 04-27-2018 at 09:08 AM.

  8. #23
    Mighty Member andersonh1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Arthur and Mera - Proposal = Aquaman #50?
    I wonder if, given that all of Wally's memories have returned in the latest Flash issue, if eventually everyone else will follow suit, and Arthur and Mera will remember they were already married, and that Black Manta killed their son? Will those events be brought back into continuity?
    "Why do the trunks not "hold up with the times"? What exactly is the problem with them? And don't tell me "nobody wears them" because nobody dresses in a blue body suit and red cape and boots either.

    It's a superhero costume. It's the original superhero costume. It's not real clothing, it's not bound to the ever-changing fashion trends of real life. It's nothing like real life clothing. How exactly can it become outdated?"

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Looks like the fastest way to The Button is The Flash.
    The Flash Vol. 1 Lightning Strikes Twice
    The Flash Vol. 2 Speed of Darkness
    The Flash Vol. 3 Rogues Reloaded
    Batman/The Flash: The Button
    The Batman way has a crossover and character death in it, so it will take longer, but will provide context to the Psycho Pirate mask in The Button.

    It seems like Flashpoint is still needed... but then he's dead. This is the kind thing that makes me confused about the necessity of back stories because it looks like... at least this one... is only relevant to this particular story.
    You don't need to read The Flash Vol. 1 - 3 in order to understand The Button. Those stories are more about the development of Barry's relationships with Iris and WallyNew52.

    And since most of The Button is an epilogue to Flashpoint, if you really want to understand all the references, you have to read Flashpoint. Maybe Flash Rebirth too.

    Also, yes, that's the reason of why Kyle is a Green Lantern again.

  10. #25
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batgrayson View Post
    You don't need to read The Flash Vol. 1 - 3 in order to understand The Button. Those stories are more about the development of Barry's relationships with Iris and WallyNew52.

    And since most of The Button is an epilogue to Flashpoint, if you really want to understand all the references, you have to read Flashpoint. Maybe Flash Rebirth too.

    Also, yes, that's the reason of why Kyle is a Green Lantern again.
    I suspect you don't need all the Flash plot to understand The Button when I read all the previews, but I cover it anyway since there's possibly some character development happening in between that I won't get if I only read the event itself.

    It's kinda annoying to be honest, that the all-encompassing plot they set up turn out to be sporadic, while the events happening in between barely has anything to do with it, but I guess that's just how it works. Otherwise they'll be forcing people to read books or characters they don't want to read.

    I tend to want to understand the references, yes.

    *Deep breath*

    The problem is, I don't like missing character development and world-building that's happening in between events. So if I do pick up Flashpoint, I'll probably end up picking up The Flash Rebirth and the whole New 52 too, but we know not all of them is canon, and at this point we don't know what's going to be brought back from limbo. That's the annoying part.

    Well, Batman and Flash New 52 are still canon, so I guess that's not a problem.
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 04-27-2018 at 02:09 PM.

  11. #26
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andersonh1 View Post
    I wonder if, given that all of Wally's memories have returned in the latest Flash issue, if eventually everyone else will follow suit, and Arthur and Mera will remember they were already married, and that Black Manta killed their son? Will those events be brought back into continuity?
    I'm not sure. Aquaman's continuities are fundamentally different. Manta killed Aquababy vs Arthur killing Manta senior. Atlan being the dead king of Atlantis vs being Arthur's father.
    They also aren't people transplanted from previous continuity like Wally, Clark, and Lois. Since is New 52 Aquaman is pretty successful, I think they're going to keep it.

  12. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Maybe Oz Effect.

    Oz Effect does tie into the Manhattan thing. The story doesn't revolve around him but without getting to spoiler-y, the story can't happen without Manhattan.
    Last Read: Berserk vol. 40
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post

    *Deep breath*

    The problem is, I don't like missing character development and world-building that's happening in between events. So if I do pick up Flashpoint, I'll probably end up picking up The Flash Rebirth and the whole New 52 too, but we know not all of them is canon, and at this point we don't know what's going to be brought back from limbo. That's the annoying part.

    Well, Batman and Flash New 52 are still canon, so I guess that's not a problem.
    It would be harder and longer if you want to read all the world-building related to Flash. You would need to read Flash Rebirth, from 2009. It's the follow up to Barry's return to life during Final Crisis, and Phase 1 of Johns' run with Barry. Itīs also the story -or at least some of its elements- that has defined Barry for the last decade, in comics, tv and movies. His character development continues throughout Blackest Night, mainly in Blackest Night: The Flash. Then comes The Flash, a regular series from 2010. The second arc of the series is the road to Flashpoint, which of course, concludes in Flashpoint and is the origin of the New52.

    But again, these stories are needed only if you want to know more about the current version of Barry.

  14. #29
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batgrayson View Post
    It would be harder and longer if you want to read all the world-building related to Flash. You would need to read Flash Rebirth, from 2009. It's the follow up to Barry's return to life during Final Crisis, and Phase 1 of Johns' run with Barry. Itīs also the story -or at least some of its elements- that has defined Barry for the last decade, in comics, tv and movies. His character development continues throughout Blackest Night, mainly in Blackest Night: The Flash. Then comes The Flash, a regular series from 2010. The second arc of the series is the road to Flashpoint, which of course, concludes in Flashpoint and is the origin of the New52.

    But again, these stories are needed only if you want to know more about the current version of Barry.
    I'm checking out Flashpoint right now. There's a flashback and summarized history of Barry. If this is enough to give context, then maybe I don't have to go back further.
    b57f4599b22048e2a12cb2b08913f4de._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg

    ...unrelated but I just realized, if nobody remembered Crisis, what did everyone remember about Barry's death?

  15. #30
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post

    ...unrelated but I just realized, if nobody remembered Crisis, what did everyone remember about Barry's death?
    That is currently unclear, but looks to be sorted out by Flash War.

    Here's what we know so far. The original Crisis happened because the League knew who The Monitor was when he showed up in Metal, which also featured the Anti-Matter Tower from Infinite Crisis, which could not have taken place without the first Crisis.

    However, nobody but a handful of people even know Wally West even exists, so we don't know if Barry died then. Like with Post-Crisis continuity, nobody remembers Supergirl dying either, although she still did.

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