The Rebellion of the Incels

[bloodofthegods]

The moment a man actually needs help is when he forfeits his right to it. A broken cog in the machine should be disposed of. There will always be more cogs.

And the award for most misanthropic post goes to...

Not a surprise here on CBR. The acted out misogyny on the part of the men in the OP and any perceived misogyny on the part of any other man that might possibly be an "incel" (whether toting that label or being given that label) is subject enough to throw them in the corner with ears and eyes closed and forget about them so that the oppression tiers can pushed. Only some groups matter anymore when it comes to recognizing a potential to help and prevent actions such as these from occurring again. As someone else said; wouldn't the victims rather it didn't happen to them at all if it can be prevented? Or prevent it from happening to someone else in the future?

But all that requires effort and change not just clacking away at a keyboard on a comic book message forum. Do we want change, or just a chance to bitch on the internet?

[Trey Strain]

I had a teacher once who boiled down the problem of prison reform to this: "Either you believe you can reform people, or you don't. If you don't think you can reform criminals, you may as well kill them, because imprisonment by itself does not work as a deterrent."

Here the question of the thread appears to be: can one do anything in advance to reform incels to prevent the crimes? Those who say it's not important to reform them are basically saying we might as well get rid of them, whether by execution or prolonged isolation.

Either you think people can change or you don't. The people who don't are the ones who think they're just fine and who enjoy listening to the rants on right-wing talk radio. If they're correct, then there's no point in coaching, counseling, psychology and so on.

[wjowski]

Stop killing people because women won't have sex with you and we'll talk about reform and reconciliation.

Seems simple enough to me.

[Trey Strain]

Stop killing people because women won't have sex with you and we'll talk about reform and reconciliation.

Seems simple enough to me.

The goal should be to prevent these things from happening in the first place.

That's what should be simple to understand.

[ouroboros]

Stop killing people because women won't have sex with you and we'll talk about reform and reconciliation.

Seems simple enough to me.

Some rabid dogs are too far advanced in the disease and have to be put down.

But if they're not so advanced, would you kill the dogs or cure them?

Admittedly, I don't know of a prevailing psychological cure to match the cure for early-stage rabies. But I think it's a moral point worth discussing.

[Darkspellmaster]

The goal should be to prevent these things from happening in the first place.

That's what should be simple to understand.

As I said the only way to prevent that from happening is to change their view of the world, the only way to change their view of the world is for them to willingly seek out treatment and for a way to identify behavior. The problem is:

1. Most people that have this mindset do not think that they are wrong, they think the world is wrong and will not go to get help.

2. Because of the laws, as long as they are of sound mind they can check themselves out

3. The only place they can't do 2 is in a prison like situation. The problem there is that they have to commit a crime to be placed in there and by then the person that they were going after could either be injured, have tramua, or worse.

This is why the cycle is such a problem, even if you get them into help, they can get themselves out unless you can get a lawyer to say "Hey this person is not right in the head and I'm the only one that can sign them out."

[Trey Strain]

As I said the only way to prevent that from happening is to change their view of the world, the only way to change their view of the world is for them to willingly seek out treatment and for a way to identify behavior. The problem is:

1. Most people that have this mindset do not think that they are wrong, they think the world is wrong and will not go to get help.

2. Because of the laws, as long as they are of sound mind they can check themselves out

3. The only place they can't do 2 is in a prison like situation. The problem there is that they have to commit a crime to be placed in there and by then the person that they were going after could either be injured, have tramua, or worse.

This is why the cycle is such a problem, even if you get them into help, they can get themselves out unless you can get a lawyer to say "Hey this person is not right in the head and I'm the only one that can sign them out."

You don't have to wait for them to "seek out help."

Students should be given psychological tests that flag problems like these so they can get early intervention.

This is not complicated.

[SJNeal]

The goal should be to prevent these things from happening in the first place.

That's what should be simple to understand.

These incel guys are cut from the same cloth as most school shooters; while there's usually a mental health correlation, bullying is also prevalent somewhere in their childhoods. A good start to preventing more of these incidents in the future might already be happening, with the current anti-bullying movements we're seeing.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

The moment a man actually needs help is when he forfeits his right to it. A broken cog in the machine should be disposed of. There will always be more cogs.

So, the next time I get lost while driving and stop to ask for directions, I shouldn’t get it, right? Seriously?

[Michael Watkins]

So, the next time I get lost while driving and stop to ask for directions, I shouldn’t get it, right? Seriously?

you might want to read the rest of his posts.

You don't have to wait for them to "seek out help."

Students should be given psychological tests that flag problems like these so they can get early intervention.

This is not complicated.

I see there being an issue with the implementation of these tests. how many psych screenings are we talking about, here?

[Duskman]

Not a surprise here on CBR. The acted out misogyny on the part of the men in the OP and any perceived misogyny on the part of any other man that might possibly be an "incel" (whether toting that label or being given that label) is subject enough to throw them in the corner with ears and eyes closed and forget about them so that the oppression tiers can pushed. Only some groups matter anymore when it comes to recognizing a potential to help and prevent actions such as these from occurring again. As someone else said; wouldn't the victims rather it didn't happen to them at all if it can be prevented? Or prevent it from happening to someone else in the future?

But all that requires effort and change not just clacking away at a keyboard on a comic book message forum. Do we want change, or just a chance to bitch on the internet?

This guy gets it.

[Trey Strain]

I see there being an issue with the implementation of these tests. how many psych screenings are we talking about, here?

That would have to be worked out, of course, as would the tests themselves. But it's better to prevent a forest fore than to have to put one out. I think most of us knew a few kids in the first grade and figured out they were probably headed for trouble.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

No, they aren't. Because you don't date as often as you want to does not make you, in any way, damaged.

No they definitely are. Most of these people have some type of severe social anxiety as well as hallmark traits of many other emotional and psychological deficiencies and for whatever reason never got the help they needed or the right help. Some of you really need to read up on psychology.

Just because you dislike the end results manifestation doesn’t mean it doesn’t come from them being damaged. In fact most people that commit terrible acts are damaged. There’s just a fine line between troubled person that you can catch earlier enough to put on the right path and the evil monster that hates women.

[BaneBreaker]

No they definitely are. Most of these people have some type of severe social anxiety as well as hallmark traits of many other emotional and psychological deficiencies and for whatever reason never got the help they needed or the right help. Some of you really need to read up on psychology.

Just because you dislike the end results manifestation doesn’t mean it doesn’t come from them being damaged. In fact most people that commit terrible acts are damaged. There’s just a fine line between troubled person that you can catch earlier enough to put on the right path and the evil monster that hates women.

[Darkspellmaster]

You don't have to wait for them to "seek out help."

Students should be given psychological tests that flag problems like these so they can get early intervention.

This is not complicated.

You're forgetting a few things here.

Firstly a person can't be admitted into a facility to get help unless they are willing to go in for treatment. You have to have some sort of paperwork saying that the person needs this help and that they need to be looked at. Problems occur when the person refuses the treatment, as is their right, and they can sign papers saying that they don't want the treatment and no one can force them into it. You need them to comply to the therapy in order for it to work.

Take for example someone who drinks way to much. Most will admit there is an issue and are willing to get help for that. That's what the AA is for. However, if a person is unwilling to admit there is a problem there, and won't stay for the help there is little a person can do to help them. Unless you want to set up a system that holds people against their will to get the help they need, people will have to do this on a basis of going in willingly to get treatment.

Secondly you have the issue of the testing. Not only is there a question of who would do the testing and when, but also, again, of rights. A student doesn't have to take a test, and in some cases, parents can block such tests from being administered on religious beliefs, or other variations of the like. For a school to give a test like this the student, and parent, must sign consent forms for the testing. Some parents may feel that this is a bad thing and will be against this as they think that mental health issues should be something only within the family and that the school should not have a say in this at all.

Thirdly, even if you have the tests, you still have the issue of them getting the therapy, and that loops back to issue one where people don't believe they are sick and will opt out of treatment. So it's a damn cycle.

you might want to read the rest of his posts.

I see there being an issue with the implementation of these tests. how many psych screenings are we talking about, here?

Yeah that's a big thing. You need to consider that testing doesn't always pick up on things, and people need to be observed for a while. You can fake being well on a test if you know how to cover your mental issues. Also who's administering it and where? How often do we test, and what sort of tests would show a person is predisposed to that behavior or not? And if there is a problem, how do you go about dealing with the issues? If they are chemical, do you medicate, if so which drugs? If the person doesn't want to take the drugs what then? And if Therapy, then is it group, one on one, and where do they go get the help for it?

That would have to be worked out, of course, as would the tests themselves. But it's better to prevent a forest fore than to have to put one out. I think most of us knew a few kids in the first grade and figured out they were probably headed for trouble.

Yes but when preventing a forest fire you have to get the community to help. The problem is that the community doesn't think there is an issue, and barely now is there movement to see this as a possible mental illness. Problem with first grade as testing is that kids in first grade haven't grown enough for the sort of testing that would be needed. A lot of the issues come in middle and high school, and if you misdiagnose there could be a problem there. Again, prevention isn't a bad idea, it's how you go about doing it that's the issue here.

No they definitely are. Most of these people have some type of severe social anxiety as well as hallmark traits of many other emotional and psychological deficiencies and for whatever reason never got the help they needed or the right help. Some of you really need to read up on psychology.

Just because you dislike the end results manifestation doesn’t mean it doesn’t come from them being damaged. In fact most people that commit terrible acts are damaged. There’s just a fine line between troubled person that you can catch earlier enough to put on the right path and the evil monster that hates women.

Some do, some do not. Some are certainly ones that would benefit from mental health treatment, others legitimately are just jackasses that think the world is owed to them because they've been fed that info via family, friends, and others all their lives. So for those it's not a case of mental health it's a case of changing their view point of themselves and the world around them, which is really hard because a lot of them don't want to believe that they are like that.

Again some come from being damaged, others don't come from being damaged and are just people that have been taught to hate things and people. Either due to being unable to cope with rejection because they socially haven't been or were never in a situation where they were told no to. Yes there is a fine line, the issue comes with how you can weed out those that need the mental health and those who are just straight up jerks that think the world owes them something. There are people that fall into the latter category too.