The Rebellion of the Incels

[Mister Mets]

Well, there's a fair number of women who are socially inept and have no romantic lives...spinsters, people have long made jokes about lonely cat ladies. The difference is, most of those women don't turn into the female equivalent David Berkowitz or Elliot Rodgers...

A majority of the men don't either, which is probably one of the flaws with the name of the "movement."

How about you spend less time 'reaching out' to these wastes of vital organs and more time sympathizing with their victims?

Trey seems to believe his approach would create less victims. It is similar to efforts to prevent young men from joining terrorist organizations and gangs, even if the backlash is similar, as the "trash should be burned, not pandered to" argument applies just as well there.

[Trey Strain]

Punishing a criminal might be fulfilling and fun, but his victim would prefer that the crime have never occurred. That's pretty basic, isn't it?

[HowitzerJoe]

I was a lurker on the Incel group on Reddit sometimes. Just curious to see what made the people within the community tick. A lot of what I would read was pretty disturbing, and it was hard to stay there long getting information even as a ghost. Not too surprised that someone that may have identified themselves as a part of their movement lashed out at innocent people.

Never really got the logic behind their cause. People, not just women, shouldn't be the target of vitriol simply because they may not be attracted or show an interest in another person on any level. I'm a guy, and it just seemed like common sense to me that one could always be proactive to improve their desirability. Work out, eat better, make sure your hygieine is in check, read books, talk to people that may be or have been in the same situation that are in the process of making a positive change or have made some. It may take some time, but these things can go a long way. Simple. Just takes time.

[Trey Strain]

I was a lurker on the Incel group on Reddit sometimes. Just curious to see what made the people within the community tick. A lot of what I would read was pretty disturbing, and it was hard to stay there long getting information even as a ghost. Not too surprised that someone that may have identified themselves as a part of their movement lashed out at innocent people.

Never really got the logic behind their cause. People, not just women, shouldn't be the target of vitriol simply because they may not be attracted or show an interest in another person on any level. I'm a guy, and it just seemed like common sense to me that one could always be proactive to improve their desirability. Work out, eat better, make sure your hygieine is in check, read books, talk to people that may be or have been in the same situation that are in the process of making a positive change or have made some. It may take some time, but these things can go a long way. Simple. Just takes time.

I think they just don't recognize that something is wrong with them. They think they're fine the way they are, and that the reactions they get from people are unfair.

They have two problems. First, what's wrong with them socially, and second, their inability to recognize it.

[GOLGO 13]

Case in point: Melania Trump. Or did anyone think she latched onto the Donald because of his smashing good looks?

A fair comparison. Most women are hard-wired to seek out good providers. She traded her youth & sexual market value to attain a high-value, potentially superior provider. She won the rich husband sweepstakes, so now she deals with the consequences.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

A fair comparison. Most women are hard-wired to seek out good providers. She traded her youth & sexual market value to attain a high-value, potentially superior provider. She won the rich husband sweepstakes, so now she deals with the consequences.

And few, if anyone feels even the least bit sorry for her. Superior provider aside, Melania cast her lot with a serial adulterer who's as sexist and vulgar and misogynistic as they come. In fact, I've been of the belief that if Trump never ran for office, he would already have ditched Melania who's pushing 50 and beyond her shelf life for a trophy wife for a younger model. Take away Trump's money and fame, and HE'D probably be one of those incel scumbags.

[GOLGO 13]

And few, if anyone feels even the least bit sorry for her. Superior provider aside, Melania cast her lot with a serial adulterer who's as sexist and vulgar and misogynistic as they come. In fact, I've been of the belief that if Trump never ran for office, he would already have ditched Melania who's pushing 50 and beyond her shelf life for a trophy wife for a younger model. Take away Trump's money and fame, and HE'D probably be one of those incel scumbags.

Oh yes, her bed has been made so now she has to accept the humiliation & degradation that comes with willingly putting Trump at the end of your name.

For sure without his rich father's money, he's just another degenerate nobody from Queens.

[Duskman]

I asked a question because of how you set up this thread and this constant "we need to help these poor men attitude".

The moment a man actually needs help is when he forfeits his right to it. A broken cog in the machine should be disposed of. There will always be more cogs.

[wjowski]

The moment a man actually needs help is when he forfeits his right to it. A broken cog in the machine should be disposed of. There will always be more cogs.

Maybe try therapy instead of killing people?

Just an idea.

[Carabas]

The moment a man actually needs help is when he forfeits his right to it. A broken cog in the machine should be disposed of. There will always be more cogs.

And the award for most misanthropic post goes to...

[ouroboros]

Punishing a criminal might be fulfilling and fun, but his victim would prefer that the crime have never occurred. That's pretty basic, isn't it?

I had a teacher once who boiled down the problem of prison reform to this: "Either you believe you can reform people, or you don't. If you don't think you can reform criminals, you may as well kill them, because imprisonment by itself does not work as a deterrent."

Here the question of the thread appears to be: can one do anything in advance to reform incels to prevent the crimes? Those who say it's not important to reform them are basically saying we might as well get rid of them, whether by execution or prolonged isolation.

[Carabas]

Punishing a criminal might be fulfilling and fun, but his victim would prefer that the crime have never occurred. That's pretty basic, isn't it?

But until we invent telepathy and time travel, the rule of law will have to do.

[wjowski]

I had a teacher once who boiled down the problem of prison reform to this: "Either you believe you can reform people, or you don't. If you don't think you can reform criminals, you may as well kill them, because imprisonment by itself does not work as a deterrent."

Here the question of the thread appears to be: can one do anything in advance to reform incels to prevent the crimes? Those who say it's not important to reform them are basically saying we might as well get rid of them, whether by execution or prolonged isolation.

Then what do you suggest? What's the cure for such an overweening sense of entitlement?

[ouroboros]

Then what do you suggest? What's the cure for such an overweening sense of entitlement?

I don't know that there is a general cure. If reformation in advance is possible, it would seem to be on a case-by-case basis, as it is (I believe) in criminal reform.

[Darkspellmaster]

I'm going to come at this from two perspectives, first a a woman, and second as psychotherapy problem.

Firstly the issue with a lot of these guys seems to be in their minds, they've built up this fantasy from a young age. This idea that, based on a LOT of media, that the slub like guy (John Belushi, Tom Green, Russel Brand, etc.) gets the girl at the end of a comedy. Usually because it turns out that the Jock type character turns out to be lame and the girl is impressed with either the sudden studly actions of the nerdy/slub of a guy, or they will prove to these women that they're great at sex and thus women just want them. They have this idea built up in their heads and it's because socially that's how a majority of stories or shows, or movies, or what have you paint it. The problem is that a lot of these guys come off, personality wise, as the "Nice Guy" type, as well as being very possessive, obsessive, stalker like and in some cases outright violent.

I've met two of these creeps, and in both cases their personalities struck me as, narcissistic in nature (thinking that they actually thought that I would want to go out with them because of their looks or in one of their cases the fact that they drove an expensive car), selfish, rude, very pushy, and in one of them very angry and handsy. I've seen some at conventions where they seem to want to date a younger woman who is inexperienced because the older ones, to them come off as "impure" and they think that having sex with them will, no joke, "rock your world". As I am short -only 4'11" I come off as younger than my actual age, so these two thought I was very young and inexperienced in the world. They believed they knew better then me and wanted to "protect me" from the more dangerous weirdos around there. And to "come to my room" because he could keep me safe there.

It was, to put it blunt, creepy as hell to have someone talking down to me, and expecting me to return their "kindness" with sleeping with them. As if I'm princess peach and they've been through the trials to save me.

Now as for what to do with them. Some could get help with therapy, which would benefit them, but the problem is that most will say there is nothing wrong with them and that the world is wrong. The only way to see them fully getting help is for more schools to have a class that allows people to interact and teaches them how to talk to one another in general. One thing we've lost over time is the skills of conversations and I think that should be something that could be useful in, not only helping socially awkward people in general, but also identifying those that have incel like tendecies and maybe keep some from falling down that path.

However, there are some that already have some violent issues that need to be taken care of. As such that is something that needs to be addressed in full as these people are the most dangerous and can, and do, actively harm or threaten to harm or kill women, and men (there are female and queer people that fit this catagory as well) who reject them. And I think that's a big thing too. A lot of these types can't take rejection. They automatically assume things about women and other men and blame their victims for their lack of help. Some were suggesting robot sex workers for them, but I don't think that will help because to them it won't be the real thing, and, as such, because it's not a real person, it could make them more angry.