Avengers 4 Guesses? (Major Spoilers for Infinity War)

[AnakinFlair]

Ok, seriously, first and foremost... SPOILERS AHEAD. If you haven't seen Infinity War yet, get out. No complaining, no griping, we're getting into the nuts and bolts in here and that means full on spoilers. No more warnings, no spoiler spaces. Again, if you haven't seen Infinity War, LEAVE NOW.

Also, this could get long. Sorry.

Just left the theater after seeing Infinity War. Damn. Not sure how it handles as a stand alone movie (too invested in the MCU to fairly judge it on those grounds), but as the capstone to a decade long narrative, what a show. And even though it ended right where I think many of us expected, it really hit me right in the feels. But this isn't a review thread, this is a "What's next?" thread.

So, Avengers 4. They haven't even told us the title yet, claiming it spoils Infinity War. Details have been sparse, info a closely guarded secret. And kudos to Marvel Studios for actually keeping a lid on a surprising amount of spoiler material, they really must beat people with the NDA hammer when you get involved with these films. Makes you wonder if it will have an original title, or if they're going to use another major Marvel storyline for a title? So many to choose from. Infinity Crusade could work, but isn't a spoiler of any kind. Infinity Watch? Same deal. Lots of infinity titles but none a potential spoiler. Could go original, as I mentioned. "Thanos Wins". "The Avengers Avenge." Or something better than that, I suck at this kind of thing.

But I have a thought. Going to throw myself off a cliff and post it here, so we can all look back at how wrong I was around this time next year and laugh at my foolishness. Let's start with what's clear:

1) Thanos cannot be stopped. Out of our heroes, perhaps only Hulk and Thor could hope to best him one on one (and perhaps Carol, once she makes her appearance) without the gauntlet. With it? Thor got in a good blow blindside style and had a shot, but left Thanos an opening to use the Gauntlet. And now, obviously, beating Thanos is a moot point. Half the universe is dead.

2) Our heroes keep getting blinded by their emotions. Both Quill and Thor blow opportunities to end the threat because they are too caught up in their own vengeance. Only somebody with the will to act without emotion, pragmatically as Thanos does can defeat the Titan.

3) Doctor Strange has a way out. He claims he saw one, but only one future in which they won. And as he lays dying, Gauntleted out of existence by the victorious Thanos, he tells Stark that this was how things had to be. "It was the only way," if I'm not misremembering. Thus, we can conclude that the events after he gives up the Time Stone are a necessary path to the only future in which they win. Strange is playing the long game. He flat out told Tony he'd let him die if it would protect the Time Stone. We're supposed to see him surrendering the stone as a revelation that Strange can't be as hard as he needs to be. Another hero failed by sentiment. But Strange has moved past that. He's seen a way to victory. But it means letting half the universe die. Strange is a boss.

Strange recognized that Thanos could not be stopped. Half the universe was going to die. But the gauntlet can set things right. Problem? Only Thanos can wield the gauntlet. (Never explicitly stated, but implied. It took all the Guardians to wield a single stone, and that's when Quill had Celestial powers. Thanos held the tesseract in his bare hand and didn't get Red Skulled. Etc.) Thus, ONLY THANOS CAN SET THINGS RIGHT.

But why would he? First, he'd have to be convinced he was wrong. What might do that? I'm not that clever, but I can think of two things. The first is an existential threat to all life. Something that could be stopped if only he hadn't wiped out half the Avengers and their allies, perhaps? Like an invasion. The second is evidence that the universe's resources are not as finite as he believed. That life could grow and expand and find other sources to fuel growth in ways that aren't inherently destructive. What might that look like? A multiverse, that's what.

In the comics, the Infinity Stones are useless outside their native reality, their home universe. Contextually, you could extrapolate from there that the stones might be unable to affect anything that originated in another reality, another universe. (Not true in the comics, per se, but I could see the argument being made persuasively in film.) Thus, there is one thing that satisfies both conditions for Thanos learning that he is wrong. An invasion from another reality.

Avengers 4. A title that could be seen as spoiling Infinity War. An invasion from another reality.

Avengers: Annihilation?

A few thoughts on this:

Avengers Reassembled?

Thanos will still need to be stopped if only to get the gauntlet.

I did notice that bit with Strange. I think he's playing the long game as well, and saw the only way to win was for the Infinity Stones to be united first.

Actually, Loki held the Tesseract with his bare hands as well. Heck, he was carrying it around with him. So I don't think Thanos is the only one who can set things right. In fact, I can see Captain America wield the Gauntlet for just long enough to restore the lives that Thanos snapped away, at the cost of his own. That's the kind of sacrifice that Cap would make.

[AnakinFlair]

Gamora can't be dead ... she's too important to GotG and her story wasn't finished.

I'm fairy certain everyone's trapped in the Soul Gem, not dead.

Well, Gamora was killed by Thanos before he assembled the full gauntlet. I can see Nebula taking Gamora's place in the Guardians to honor her sister.

[Midvillian1322]

I think this is what was teased when he said it cost him everything

I think that was just him coming to terms with the fact he has nothing left. No matter how wrong what Thanos did was he wasnt doing it out of Malice or any selfish reason. He was a Zealot who had a mission to finish at all cost. Now that the mission is done and the only thing he loved gone he has nothing left. And has to deal with that. But I think maybe the celestials somehow make a comeback in the void left or someone big enough and willing to wipe out all remaining life. So Thanos needs the Avengers help to fix it. Maybe he sends them back in time to stop himself who knows. Honestly I doubt that happend but it would be cool. I'd suggest maybe Annihilus ame his army invade but Dosney doesn't have those rights yet. Iono I just don't see Thanos being that much if a threat anymore to the remaining heroes. He coulda killed them if he wanted to. So someone else worse needs to come. Maybe The Skrulls can be a threat just on sheer numbers if they somehow avoided the genocide. Especially if that damaged gauntlet ain't working too well.

[Midvillian1322]

Well, Gamora was killed by Thanos before he assembled the full gauntlet. I can see Nebula taking Gamora's place in the Guardians to honor her sister.

Yea Gamora didnt just turn to dust. She fell to her death first, it was different then everyone at the end. If Thanos brings her back it will be separate then whatever brings the rest back. I think she's dead dead. Which I said was impossible 2weeks ago. Gunn was playing the long game with her and Starlord. But they did some service to that relationship here before she died so maybe she is just dead. I feel bad for Gunn I doubt that was part of his plan

[Scott Taylor]

Gamora might not actually be dead. Its not like she splatted all over the place. I choose to think she survived and it was Thanos' willingness to kill her that won him the stone.

[Midvillian1322]

Gamora might not actually be dead. Its not like she splatted all over the place. I choose to think she survived and it was Thanos' willingness to kill her that won him the stone.

Again alot of movie but wasnt there a pool of blood? Do much movie to try to remember I honestly can't say for sure but I think there was a pool of blood.

[Buried Alien]

Again alot of movie but wasnt there a pool of blood? Do much movie to try to remember I honestly can't say for sure but I think there was a pool of blood.

I recall seeing a trickle of blood around Gamora's mouth, but she wasn't bathed in a pool of it collecting around her.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[jlgarsh]

She could easily be resurrected with the time stone. Thanos did it with Vision. Others the same way. Whether the gauntlet was assembled or not. Strange rebuilt the mostly eaten apple in his movie.

[CRaymond]

Gamora will be resurrected by the Soul Stone as a revenant, like it did with Red Skull.

[Midvillian1322]

The whole bit about the soul stone bringing wisdom I think is what Skull said. Is that a reference to the stone being sentient? If so I wonder if by appearing as a young Gamora it will manipulate Thanos in the next movie.

Iono why but whenever Thanos showed a softer side it worked for me really well. Everytime he said little one. His little talk with Tony, his embrace of Wanda, and when he expressed that he liked Quill.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I wonder if the sequel's timeline will be immediate or if it'll pick up again in a year.

Have they said anything about that?

[kingaliencracker]

I don't want to see a scenario in which the original Avengers sacrifice themselves in some way to bring everyone else back. While I understand Chris Evans, RDJ, and some others are done after Avengers 4, I'm really hoping Marvel takes the "James Bond" route and keep the characters going - just recast. But I do think there was some foreshadowing in that most of the new blood turned to ash while the original team stayed alive. It feels like a major sacrifice is on the horizon.

As I said in the other post, my hunch is that Gamora, Loki, and Vision stay dead but they'll figure out a way to resurrect Gamora for the Guardians 3 movie.

[Cthulhudrew]

Avengers Forever might be an appropriate title as well, particularly if this is going to be the last Avengers movie for the foreseeable future.

[CRaymond]

Shuri will fix Vision.

[Cthulhudrew]

Shuri will fix Vision.

Definitely. She was nearly done removing his connections to the Mind Stone (at least from what the 3D model was showing). He might be slightly worse for wear, but I don't think there should be any question he'll be back, personally.