The Mighty Thor - the Whole Run up to 706 [spoilers]

[JKtheMac]

I remember what was on the page in 704 and 706. If you can show me something in 706 where she specifically thinks about her lost child, please do so. Because I'm looking at the both issues right now and not seeing anything.

No I am referring to gutting all of the context of her flashback such that it makes it sound like she is still in some kind of denial stage of grief. Clearly the context of the flashback provides the story reason for it, not the emotion.

[brettc1]

No I am referring to gutting all of the context of her flashback such that it makes it sound like she is still in some kind of denial stage of grief. Clearly the context of the flashback provides the story reason for it, not the emotion.

So the "context of the flashback" in 704 explains why in 706 Jane is not acting like a believable parent who fell apart when her child died.

No. For me at least, vague referrals to some intellectual story telling technique do not stand in for a genuine examination of the human condition.

[JKtheMac]

So the "context of the flashback" in 704 explains why in 706 Jane is not acting like a believable parent who fell apart when her child died.

Of course it does. Nothing vague about it. The incident happened a long while ago, the context of the flashback wasn't grief but faith, and you are emphasising the grief for rhetorical effect only, because the story doesn't. And exactly why talking about her son with Odin would be appropriate is beyond me.

[brettc1]

Of course it does. Nothing vague about it. The incident happened a long while ago, the context of the flashback wasn't grief but faith, and you are emphasising the grief for rhetorical effect only, because the story doesn't. And exactly why talking about her son with Odin would be appropriate is beyond me.

It doesn't matter what the context was - her GRIEF was obvious. For Aaron to writer her like that, as a real grieving mother, and then just handwave that real human emotion away three issues later, is not good writing of Jane the characters. That is my opinion.

And it doesn't matter if it was years ago [though certainly after Thor returned looking at his armor]. People do not expect the death of a child to stop mattering to a mother who loved him. So now he's dead, and she's dead, and the idea of seeing him again when his loss was so awful never even crosses Jane's mind?

Nope. Not buying it. That is not the woman Aaron wrote three months earlier. I get some people are wowed by Aaron and he certainly can spin a tale, but a gaff is still a gaff and I am prepared to say so.

[frizb]

Loved the entire run. Can't wait for the next chapter to begin. 9/10

[JKtheMac]

It doesn't matter what the context was - her GRIEF was obvious. For Aaron to writer her like that, as a real grieving mother, and then just handwave that real human emotion away three issues later, is not good writing of Jane the characters. That is my opinion.

And it doesn't matter if it was years ago [though certainly after Thor returned looking at his armor]. People do not expect the death of a child to stop mattering to a mother who loved him. So now he's dead, and she's dead, and the idea of seeing him again when his loss was so awful never even crosses Jane's mind?

Nope. Not buying it. That is not the woman Aaron wrote three months earlier. I get some people are wowed by Aaron and he certainly can spin a tale, but a gaff is still a gaff and I am prepared to say so.

Well it isn't about you buying it. It is about you reading it in a way that inserts your own tastes onto the actual plot. It didn't happen and you want to find a way to make that a problem. It isn't necessary.

Odin cant do anything about it anyway and she knows that. That was in the context that doesn't matter to you. She also doesn't believe in heaven. When confronted with a special godly afterlife she isn't going to suddenly think this is anything other than what it is. A special place for mythological figures.

In this respect Jane recounts Aaron's own philosophy. She doesn't believe in god or an afterlife, her son is gone, but she can believe in the Asgardian god Thor because that is tangible, real, immanent and worth sacrificing herself for. Again, all in the context, plainly on the pages of Mighty Thor.

And no. Jane isn't dead. She is dying. This is a near death experience. She is being told she is dead but she will not accept it. She doesn't want to die.

[brettc1]

Well it isn't about you buying it. It is about you reading it in a way that inserts your own tastes onto the actual plot. It didn't happen and you want to find a way to make that a problem. It isn't necessary.

OMG - YOU'RE RIGHT! How stupid of me. The writer doesn't need to write the characters in a way that actually makes them credible or believable. The reader just blindly accepts whatever is put in front of them, no matter how much it diverges from actual real human emotions. What a FOOL I've been to be writing that way all these years. I should give back all the money I've been paid right now!

LOL

Odin cant do anything about it anyway and she knows that. That was in the context that doesn't matter to you. She also doesn't believe in heaven. When confronted with a special godly afterlife she isn't going to suddenly think this is anything other than what it is. A special place for mythological figures.

In this respect Jane recounts Aaron's own philosophy. She doesn't believe in god or an afterlife, her son is gone, but she can believe in the Asgardian god Thor because that is tangible, real, immanent and worth sacrificing herself for. Again, all in the context, plainly on the pages of Mighty Thor.

Jesus wept! Who stands there not believing in the afterlife when THEY'RE DEAD AND LOOKING RIGHT AT IT!?

LMAO!

[JKtheMac]

Jesus wept! Who stands there not believing in the afterlife when THEY'RE DEAD AND LOOKING RIGHT AT IT!?

LMAO!

Spoilers - that is a mythical realm not the afterlife.

[JKtheMac]

OMG - YOU'RE RIGHT! How stupid of me. The writer doesn't need to write the characters in a way that actually makes them credible or believable. The reader just blindly accepts whatever is put in front of them, no matter how much it diverges from actual real human emotions. What a FOOL I've been to be writing that way all these years. I should give back all the money I've been paid right now!

We may be completely inundated with unnatural grief in comics - All that unending man-pain - All that bargaining with the universe - but there is nothing wrong with writing a character that has a normal reaction to grief. The fact you want it to be portrayed differently bears no relation to the story we have been told.

[Mr Reader]

Jesus Christ!, politicians pay 6 figures for the kind of spin doctoring Jason Aaron gets for free.

[JKtheMac]

Its funny but Heaven is very rarely mentioned or shown in the comics. Off the top of my head Aaron has written most of them. He literally wrote the book on what heaven is in the MU.

I can think of two Ghost Rider stories that I haven't fully read because that character isn't my thing, and a Nightcrawler story in Amazing X-Men.

[Ascended]

How could we meaningfully define something as anti-legacy? And even if we did make up such a term is it about discrimination? Who is being sidelined in the real world? Who is being deprived of equal opportunity or equal rights?

I have no idea how we could meaningfully define something like that. I'm just saying, I'm sure someone could/would try.

[JKtheMac]

I have no idea how we could meaningfully define something like that. I'm just saying, I'm sure someone could/would try.

Which is why he wisely avoids that. People in the MU don't get to interact with it. Nightcrawler stayed very much on the fringes of a vague realm. Ghost Rider got to the gates I think? Unless we want to include Howard the Duck, which would just be pointless.

[JackDaw]

From a distance, I find Walt Simonson’s answer to who (apart from Thor) might be worthy to lift the hammer a lot more convincing than Aaron’s.

Looking at Thor’s prime characteristics that would be regarded as exceptional among Norse gods would suggest exceptional strength, bravery, all round fighting skill...maybe allied to an integrity to typically win fights without “cheating” the opponent.

Beta Ray Bill fits the spec. Jane doesn’t...she’s no doubt a far better person (according to our modern standards) than either Bill or Thor, but it’s almost bizarre (I think) that she would have been judged “worthy” in terms of the hammers enchantment.

And blimey...if a strong feeling of self worth, and deep conviction you’re helping mankind, is the key to whether the hammer can be lifted....then the Donald would be able to lift it.

[JKtheMac]

I think the key reason Beta-Ray is able to lift it is he is a saviour figure to his people. Aaron's Jane story very much has this idea in the foreground, but suggests a normal person can be a saviour too. Jane as Thor undergoes a whole sequence of subtextual tests to explore the idea of her worthiness and the idea of what it means to be Thor. He is directly building upon the idea of Beta-Ray, but not just having a simple mirror image, instead asking the next question.