Most important: first, strongest, or most influential hero?

[adrikito]

I like superman as The most inspiring hero.

[The World]

They can always just put them back on Earth-2. I doubt this is an element that was questioned nearly as much as it has been since Crisis. Adherence to the post-Crisis set up is the only thing preventing both a lot of Superman fans and JSA fans getting what they want (the mainstream Superman being the first superhero, the JSA having their WWII era history intact).

What does the JSA predating Superman actually end up even doing for either property? The JSA remain unchanged really, and Superman seems less impressive when he emerges to a world that already had Dr. Fate and Jay Garrick in it. The JLA and JSA have an easier time having Christmas parties or whatever, but that's all I can think of. And even with that, the two groups didn't let the Multiverse prevent them from hanging out a lot pre-Crisis....

But what if the Flash franchise says it wants Jay Garrick on the main Earth? What if the Wonder Woman wants Diana or Hypollyta to have been fighting Nazi in WW2 long before Clark had become Superman? The thing with Superman being first is that it's asking for compliance from basically the rest of the DCU. A franchise like the Flash which has been growing the past decade or so probably doesn't have the historical presence of Superman but it's sales have rivaled it for some time now. Diana is on the heels of an extremely successful movie that's bolstered her mind share amongst the public. Meanwhile Supes is kind of languishing in the dark for some time now despite quite a lot of attempts by DC to shoot him back to the top. He's fine in the comics but outside of that the mans has been tapped out for a while now.

Really it's not the fault of the JSA that they predate Superman because it's really DC that wanted Superman to stay in contemporary times due to his success as a character while seeming to dump most of the other franchises then basically soft rebooting most of them in the silver age. Superman basically outlived them. Though if I were to do a Superman as the first hero of the DCU it's probably be something along the lines of Superman debuting in 1938 and basically living all the way to modern times have fought beside all the major heroes. It's less potential red tape involved imo.

[Jim Kelly]

I really like the guy. That was the most important thing for me when I first got to know Superman. I didn’t know he was the first or the strongest or the most inspiring. He was likable.

So was Batman, but there’s been a mighty effort by DC to make Batman unlikable. While Superman is still pretty likable most of the time.

[The World]

Funny enough, I actually came up with something for this.. he starts out with a few early Golden Age stories, and as he learns about his powers, he finds his rocket and learns of his homeworld. His powers now a LOT higher (Silver Age) he goes into space to find it and has some Silver-Age type space adventures. Not finding any traces of his race left, he tries to get back home but gets pulled into a wormhole/whatever and uses up a good amount of his strength to get out of it. He gets back home, but finds it's now the 80's and the government totally covered him up and only a few even remember he existed - most confusing him with one of the other Mystery Men who came forward to fill the void when he left Earth. He's still the rough-and-tumble guy, but now he dives into technology, absolutely fascinated by how far it's come, and that manifests itself in Clark's now slightly more geeky vibe. The original Lois who worked at the Daily Star (now the Daily Planet) has a granddaughter named after her who's living up to the name, and Perry White (who was a copy boy under George Taylor) is now the editor-in-chief - who hires Clark partly out of how much he resembles a guy he remembered only being at the Star for a short time, but who made an impression on him as a copy boy. (to be clear, the original Lois and he were more rivals - it's *this* Lois he falls for)

No clue on how it'd work as more than an outline, but I'm pretty fond of the idea as a concept.

I had an idea similar to this. But it would have basically literally been Superman back in the 30's fighting crime, stopping wars, etc. He'd marry Lois and have a daughter that would basically be Kara. Supes and the other Golden Age heroes would basically do an Incredibles where all their skills, abilities, an knowledge would basically lead the world to a cultural and technological boom. Basically have their Earth begin to divorce historically from ours laying the bricks for their Earth becoming a more futuristic kind of paradise world with the problems that plague our world being replaced by their own new problems. Radical new super disease replacing concepts like cancer, aids, diabetes. Wars between countries replaced by wars between world and realities. Overtime Clark's generation would hand the football off to Kara's gen. Their gen would keep pushing things forward.

[SiegePerilous02]

But what if the Flash franchise says it wants Jay Garrick on the main Earth? What if the Wonder Woman wants Diana or Hypollyta to have been fighting Nazi in WW2 long before Clark had become Superman? The thing with Superman being first is that it's asking for compliance from basically the rest of the DCU. A franchise like the Flash which has been growing the past decade or so probably doesn't have the historical presence of Superman but it's sales have rivaled it for some time now. Diana is on the heels of an extremely successful movie that's bolstered her mind share amongst the public. Meanwhile Supes is kind of languishing in the dark for some time now despite quite a lot of attempts by DC to shoot him back to the top. He's fine in the comics but outside of that the mans has been tapped out for a while now.

Really it's not the fault of the JSA that they predate Superman because it's really DC that wanted Superman to stay in contemporary times due to his success as a character while seeming to dump most of the other franchises then basically soft rebooting most of them in the silver age. Superman basically outlived them. Though if I were to do a Superman as the first hero of the DCU it's probably be something along the lines of Superman debuting in 1938 and basically living all the way to modern times have fought beside all the major heroes. It's less potential red tape involved imo.

If it means fixing the larger continuity problems of the DCU and the clutter that results in sticking everyone on the same Earth, I think the Flash franchise would have to take one for the team regardless of what "it" wants. The JSA and their respective legacies can be moved back to their own Earth and not really be impacted all the much. What changes really? The Flash franchise can still use Jay a lot, it would just require Multiverse travel. Which is something there is precedent for, the Flashes are the ones who got the ball rolling on the Multiverse, and it would expand that mythology a great deal. Meanwhile, Hippolyta being Wonder Woman I and turning Diana into a legacy character as an idea is a relic from the 90s that the majority of the WW fanbase doesn't mind ditching. If DC wants a WWII era Wonder Woman fighting alongside the Justice Society, just have it be on Earth-2. Earth-1 Diana can be contemporary along with all the other major players. it's not really asking for a lot of compliance from the rest of the DCU. The Flashes "sacrificing" Jay (but not really) would pretty much be it, and the JSA would lose their reputation as being the original superhero team that the JLA is a legacy of. But they still have legacies in the form of Infinity Inc and new JSA teams lead by Michael Holt, etc.

Really, it's the rest of the main DCU that is asked to be compliant for the benefit of the JSA and restoring a status quo that didn't even exist until after the Crisis.

[daBronzeBomma]

You say alpha heroes but you know... doesn't that mean there are beta heroes, and in greater number? Clark inspires the everyman, sure, but he also has a direct number of other super heroes who have gotten their start by watching him. He's also coached a number of independent starters.

I'd need a list of these heroes that Superman supposedly has directly inspired (in - universe) before I'd move off from "strength/ might/ power" being more important.

What is it you would say he loses if he can't be the mightiest? And what are the requirements for being the mightiest to you?

Superman's ability to inspire comes from his might and what he chooses to do with said might. Both parts of that equation are important, not just the second.

If he didn't have that unimaginable might, then him being selfless with that might doesn't mean as much. Or, if there was some other selfless super-hero on Earth with more might (there isn't, btw), then that hero would become the most inspirational by default.

The more power you have, AND the more you use it to help others = the more inspiration you produce en masse.

Supes needs his strength (overall power) to be this kind of inspirational.

One is inextricably tied to the other, in Superman 's case.

[Flash Gordon]

Without his strength (be that physical or emotional) he's not going to be THE inspirational figure. Inspiration comes from bearing witness to his impossible feats of power and kindness/compassion. His unbreakable spirit. It doesn't come from speeches and waxing philosophical. Superman is a man of ACTION, after all. He speaks softly and sternly, but carries a big stick.

So I guess I'd wager his strength is what empowers his myth.

Being the first hero is important because he was the first hero. Making him come after Hawkman and Star-Spangled Kid does nothing but take away from him. It might prop up Star-Spangled Kid but it only takes away from Superman. So it's just a loss. It's another reason why he operates best in his own world. He's such a mighty character, the rules of a "shared universe" do not add anything of value to him, they only detract. Ignoring the more meta aspects of that (BUT IT IS ALL META!!), it can work so long as Superman isn't asking freakin' Wildcat for help being a superhero.

Strength, perseverance under immense pressure and against great conflict, is who Superman is.

[Kuwagaton]

I'd need a list of these heroes that Superman supposedly has directly inspired (in - universe) before I'd move off from "strength/ might/ power" being more important.

As far as I recall he's known for directly inspiring the Legion of Super Heroes, Kara, Rampage, Matrix, Steel, Kon-el, Gangbuster, Sinbad, Outburst, Maxima, Alpha Centurion. He's coached Waverider, Captain Marvel, Jade and Obsidian, the Next, Starman, rallied the metahuman community to fight Brainiac, led the 90s JL America, and inspired the names of Nightwing and Valor.

Superman's ability to inspire comes from his might and what he chooses to do with said might. Both parts of that equation are important, not just the second.

If he didn't have that unimaginable might, then him being selfless with that might doesn't mean as much. Or, if there was some other selfless super-hero on Earth with more might (there isn't, btw), then that hero would become the most inspirational by default.

I think of Superman's head and heart being in the game as the most inspirational things, him taking that one extra second where anyone else would be selfish to be selfless, and make them think about what they can do. One of my favorite generally related examples being the guy who complains that he can't do as much as Superman in repairing some buildings, and then another guy telling him it's not a race back in Morrison's Action run. It's important how he uses his strength, but in that moment it doesn't matter if there's anyone stronger out there. I do like your point though.

[SiegePerilous02]

Without his strength (be that physical or emotional) he's not going to be THE inspirational figure. Inspiration comes from bearing witness to his impossible feats of power and kindness/compassion. His unbreakable spirit. It doesn't come from speeches and waxing philosophical. Superman is a man of ACTION, after all. He speaks softly and sternly, but carries a big stick.

So I guess I'd wager his strength is what empowers his myth.

Being the first hero is important because he was the first hero. Making him come after Hawkman and Star-Spangled Kid does nothing but take away from him. It might prop up Star-Spangled Kid but it only takes away from Superman. So it's just a loss. It's another reason why he operates best in his own world. He's such a mighty character, the rules of a "shared universe" do not add anything of value to him, they only detract. Ignoring the more meta aspects of that (BUT IT IS ALL META!!), it can work so long as Superman isn't asking freakin' Wildcat for help being a superhero.

Yes, it seems like Superman has to give up more for a shared universe to "work" for everyone else. Even though the other heroes are not billed as the mightiest, so it's not like anyone has any expectations that they should be the strongest to begin with. The few that are, like Captain Marvel/Shazam, work well enough on their own Earths so they can be the equivalent archetype for Earth-5 or whatever.

And it's not like any of their feats are somehow less impressive just because Superman is out there, somewhere, existing. I never really get why Superman being the overall most powerful automatically leads to a "everyone is fucking terrible at being a superhero and we need to dial Superman back a lot so everyone else can catch up" mentality.