Weapon X #17 Review

[Silver Fang]

I had dropped the book at chapter 13, but decided to skim this arc because of Cinar's art. So from my skim, here's my review thoughts.

It's a civil review. No ranting or raving.
spoilers:

So, as talked about in the preview thread, there's some problems with the timeline here. Since chapter 16, we seem to have time-skipped ahead a good bit. Domino is in her new solo outfit, and Logan has all of his injuries from his solo series. However, Logan says his injuries are from the monsters during his birthday. So if he's not lying and leaving things out, then the continuity is off. Because Logan was perfectly fine after that fight at the end of chapter 16. Then there's Domino's solo series. In the first chapter, Warpath is included in her group of ex boyfriends, which they're clearly still dating in this. We see some smoochies, then Creed making a joke about how they need private time. Warpath rebuttals they're on a mission, and Creed crassly asks if that's what they're calling it now. On a positive note. Domino's characterization seemed better in this chapter. It didn't seem like we got the party girl ditz who's all about money and debauchery. We. imo, got a decent balance of a fun Domino, who also can be serious. She does some flirting with Warpath. But at the same time, her expressing concern over putting Creed in charge shows a better Neena. She treated the situation seriously and expressed genuine concern of Logan's choice, and the operation. Another instance being Warpath breaking into the facility where Omega Red escape. Domino notes his entrance was too noisy, and she could've done it more quietly. Also Yuriko finally clarifies that she's a cyborg. A grand correction since she was lumped in with the mutants in the first arc, and Taylor's ANW. Now this isn't perfect, and there's still holes. But it's good Pak made an attempt to acknowlege what this team does. They're the hunting unit in charge of dealing with renegade mutants, and racists trying to destroy their kind. Kitty has them as an official team, and lent them some wings for the black ops missions. Again, that doesn't explain everything. But at least some effort was made. For any Creed fans, his characterization is still bad. I will refrain from ranting. But he's been written just as stupid and incompetent here as the last 20 chapters Pak has written him. First there's the opening scene where he's appointed leader. Warpath expresses tons of concern over that choice & Creed starts yelling at Warpath to drop and give him 20. He comes off like a 5-year-old playing soldier or a kid who's just been told that can be in charge and babysit. Later on, we see him speaking with Foreigner about an offer that's been made to him. He tells Creed he's got 24 hours to decide. We're getting a glimpse of evil Creed who's got some kind of subversive deals going on, despite the ending of the last chapter saying he's still inverted and not totally evil. We're told he's got good in him that's still in effect, but every action from him shows he's evil. There hasn't been any good balance -unlike what Bunn gave us. During the mission, Sabretooth has them split up into two teams. Him & Yuriko. Warpath & Domino. And Yuriko even points out that he divided up good guys & bad guys. Not to mention it's established Logan only put him in charge to give him something to do, so he wouldn't go berserk. And he's got Warpath as the babysitter to keep an eye on him. Yuriko tells Creed she knows about his dealings with someone outside of the team, given her cyborg abilities. Creed wonders why she's not ratting him out to the others. She assures him that the others are boring, and she wants in with whatever he's planning. Domino & Warpath encounter Omega Red first, and he overpowers them while Creed makes a surprise attacks. Turns out he was using Dom & Warpath as bait. Omega gets Creed in his coils, and notes he's stronger & tastier. The team gets into a fight with the others under Red's command, and Red heads off with Sabretooth. Another bad moment being Creed yelling for his team to save him because you don't let the villain take your leader. Again, I am seeing a 5-year-old in a man's body there who had nave and preconceived ideas about what being in charge meant. And since when does Creed yell for people to save him? Unless he's being sarcastic. lol Also adding to the 5-year-old mentality was his comment to Warpath. The latter wonders who he's talking to on his phone, and Creed replies it's his mother setting up another date with him. Wow.... The chapter ends there. To be fair, if I had to grade this out if 5, then I would give it a 2. The art was good. Domino's characterization was better. Yuriko is properly classified. But as a Sabretooth fan, his characterization had me take 3 points instantly. lol

end of spoilers

[Hush]

Good review ! I just finished reading this issue too, and that's it for me I'm done.
Between the mom jokes, Omega Red who hear voices and can't speak properly and Creed acting again like an immature baby that's more than enough. Hell even the art by Cinar disappointed me, some panels were really rushed.

Judging by the interactions between Creed and Yuriko and the mention of the Foreigner (gotta give props to Pak and Van Lente for remembering this character and his connection to Sabretooth) the team will go rogue soon.
Pak is a great writer (not sure about Van Lente, I haven't read his previous work) but this comic is really not his finest work in my opinion, but judging by the sales people seems to enjoy his work with these characters so I can understand why he keeps writing them that way.

[akiresu_]

Wapath never went to college. Correct me if I'm wrong but I've read every issue of New Mutants and X-Force and his appearance working for the X-Corporation simply does not give him time to have gone to college, right?

It's not a massive criticism of the book, nor the only one I have, but I think it just does go to show the big flaw of this book- its lack of research. It's a shame because Pak has shown that, if he tries, he can create something informed by continuity (Magneto Testament is still one of the franchise's best, no matter how less I feel about his work now).

Just throw the whole book away. It looks like it's getting a rejig to be Sabretooth-Domino-Deathstrike-Omega Red working for this mysterious contact, but really I'm not interested in that either. Have one short story with this new team and just get it canned (or change the name, writer and throw Daken to the cast- bc someone could make that kind of team work. Really. Just doesn't seem to be Pak)

[Silver Fang]

Good review ! I just finished reading this issue too, and that's it for me I'm done.
Between the mom jokes, Omega Red who hear voices and can't speak properly and Creed acting again like an immature baby that's more than enough. Hell even the art by Cinar disappointed me, some panels were really rushed.

Judging by the interactions between Creed and Yuriko and the mention of the Foreigner (gotta give props to Pak and Van Lente for remembering this character and his connection to Sabretooth) the team will go rogue soon.
Pak is a great writer (not sure about Van Lente, I haven't read his previous work) but this comic is really not his finest work in my opinion, but judging by the sales people seems to enjoy his work with these characters so I can understand why he keeps writing them that way.

Thanks. The review is all over the place, as I had to get to work, but hopefully it's not too confusing.

Apparently this is popular. 2 people on Pak's twitter praising his work on Creed this chapter. And someone mentioning that he's needed spotlight since Axis. Never mind his Axis characterization is being ignored in this series.

But I just can't get behind his Creed. I just see no redeeming qualities in Pak's writing for Creed. Domino was better this chapter.

If possible, Creed is getting worse. He was never the most mature person. But there's being a smart-ass, sometimes intentionally, irksome adult. Then there's arrested development, which he's suffering in Pak's writing.

But a fair example is Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Creed is supposed to be Angelus in every sense. But many writers these last 15 years get a hold of him, and write him like Spike.

I agree Cinar's art was rushed and sloppy in some areas, but I am still tempted to keep reading due to panels like this.
DYqHUutWkAA6XWt.jpg
We'll see this in chapter 18. Hopefully he's just out of touch again, since he hasn't drawn everyone in 2 chapters. So his art may pick back up in chapters 18 & 19. Like the Nuke arc. His art was good chapters 13 & 14, but he was really flopping around chapter 12 from great in some panels to WTF in others.

[The tall man]

I liked this issue, while not great it was good enough and a whole lot better than a lot of books that came out (Gold and Weapon Lost). Only plot point I didn't like was the revelation that the team is taking orders from Kitty, she shouldn't even know that this team exists. My hope is that issue 20 is a new start for the book. OML and Jimmy out, Omega Red in, maybe 1-2 new members and no more working for Kitty. This can be a great book, they just need to get it right.

[Kurolegacy]

I liked this issue, while not great it was good enough and a whole lot better than a lot of books that came out (Gold and Weapon Lost). Only plot point I didn't like was the revelation that the team is taking orders from Kitty, she shouldn't even know that this team exists. My hope is that issue 20 is a new start for the book. OML and Jimmy out, Omega Red in, maybe 1-2 new members and no more working for Kitty. This can be a great book, they just need to get it right.

Kitty’s known about this team for some time now based on them having been a part of Phoenix Resurrection, though it is still kinda odd that she seems okay with its existence especially with Creed and Lady Deathstrike being on it.

[The tall man]

Kitty’s known about this team for some time now based on them having been a part of Phoenix Resurrection, though it is still kinda odd that she seems okay with its existence especially with Creed and Lady Deathstrike being on it.

I'm of the opinion that they shouldn't care what she thinks. This should be an independent team doing their own thing irregardless of the X-Men, and I hope the writers move in that direction. It was bad enough when Cyclops was king of mutants, we don't need queen Kitty. let Weapon X cut loose.

[Hush]

Wapath never went to college. Correct me if I'm wrong but I've read every issue of New Mutants and X-Force and his appearance working for the X-Corporation simply does not give him time to have gone to college, right?

It's not a massive criticism of the book, nor the only one I have, but I think it just does go to show the big flaw of this book- its lack of research. It's a shame because Pak has shown that, if he tries, he can create something informed by continuity (Magneto Testament is still one of the franchise's best, no matter how less I feel about his work now).

Just throw the whole book away. It looks like it's getting a rejig to be Sabretooth-Domino-Deathstrike-Omega Red working for this mysterious contact, but really I'm not interested in that either. Have one short story with this new team and just get it canned (or change the name, writer and throw Daken to the cast- bc someone could make that kind of team work. Really. Just doesn't seem to be Pak)

Yeah writers not doing their research is something that seems to happened a lot with the X-Men universe in recent years unfortunately. Sales will ditacte what's going to happen with this book but yeah this serie and this team needs some new blood.

Thanks. The review is all over the place, as I had to get to work, but hopefully it's not too confusing.

Apparently this is popular. 2 people on Pak's twitter praising his work on Creed this chapter. And someone mentioning that he's needed spotlight since Axis. Never mind his Axis characterization is being ignored in this series.

But I just can't get behind his Creed. I just see no redeeming qualities in Pak's writing for Creed. Domino was better this chapter.

If possible, Creed is getting worse. He was never the most mature person. But there's being a smart-ass, sometimes intentionally, irksome adult. Then there's arrested development, which he's suffering in Pak's writing.

But a fair example is Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Creed is supposed to be Angelus in every sense. But many writers these last 15 years get a hold of him, and write him like Spike.

I agree Cinar's art was rushed and sloppy in some areas, but I am still tempted to keep reading due to panels like this.
DYqHUutWkAA6XWt.jpg
We'll see this in chapter 18. Hopefully he's just out of touch again, since he hasn't drawn everyone in 2 chapters. So his art may pick back up in chapters 18 & 19. Like the Nuke arc. His art was good chapters 13 & 14, but he was really flopping around chapter 12 from great in some panels to WTF in others.

Inverted Creed as Angelus is a nice comparison when you think about it, but with the inversion wearing off, I think Creed is gonna be back to his old roots soon. But yeah that's a wasted opportunity especially after reading Duggan and Brisson take on the characters recently.

Yeah it seems Cinar is really good with action scenes but his characters looked stiff and their faces didn't convey much emotion in this issue for me. Judging by the art you just posted it seems the fight/team up between Creed and Omega Red is at least gonna look great, so that's a positive for the readers who gonna stick with the book.

[Silver Fang]

Inverted Creed as Angelus is a nice comparison when you think about it, but with the inversion wearing off, I think Creed is gonna be back to his old roots soon. But yeah that's a wasted opportunity especially after reading Duggan and Brisson take on the characters recently.

Yeah it seems Cinar is really good with action scenes but his characters looked stiff and their faces didn't convey much emotion in this issue for me. Judging by the art you just posted it seems the fight/team up between Creed and Omega Red is at least gonna look great, so that's a positive for the readers who gonna stick with the book.

Not just inverted Creed, but Creed as a whole is Angelus.

Back in the late 80's and up to early 2003, he was dangerous because he was intelligent on top of being savage. Like Angelus, he was emotionally intelligent & sometimes got off on psychologically breaking people. Like when Angelus kills Jenny Calender. Giles comes home looking for her, and finds a note that says "upstairs." When he goes up to his bedroom, he finds Jenny's body lying in his bed. That's something Creed would do -usually to Logan with one of his woman. Or when Creed spooked and broke down Xavier of all people with some of his comments. He had Rogue on the verge of tears when he talks about her power.

Then we all know about vol 2 of Weapon X, where Creed was always one step ahead of everyone, which the Director admits. He know how to sneak and get work done behind the scenes, set traps for the other agents, create situations that could provide distractions, etc.

That's Angelus. Angelus loved to lay out plans that would put his victims where he wanted them, and he enjoyed the game. Sometimes his playing around bit him in the ass and allowed someone to defeat him. Same with Creed. Like his fight with Marrow. He had great chances to kill her, but enjoyed tormenting her too much. Then he got too close to the water valve, allowing Marrow to flush him into the sewers.

But since late 2003, Creed has become Spike. A reckless, impatient, idiot who doesn't like to plan anything because it's too boring, when he could just jump in and go straight for it. But even Spike still did show some cunning on occasions, which is more than Creed has in the last 15 years.

The inversion has become the same. Instead of Angelus to Angel like Rememnder said, Pak went the Spike route. Where he tells us Creed is inverted, then writes him like a villain. He's working with Foreigner now. What good does it do to say he's inverted or still somewhat good only to turn around & promptly call him a bad guy, and constantly show him doing bad stuff. He's also clearly not remorseful about his past anymore.

So, seems Pak is a doofus who doesn't know what "inverted" means. Otherwise, we should be getting something similar to Angel. Not chipped Spike, which is the route he's taken. And that's not inverted.

And again, since Pak & Van Lente go out of their way to make Creed a dumbass, Idk how they plan to turn this around & seriously make him a leader that the book may center around when he's been nothing but the dumb punching-bag comedy relief that's not to be taken seriously, and who isn't a threat in any capacity.

[Hush]

Not just inverted Creed, but Creed as a whole is Angelus.

Back in the late 80's and up to early 2003, he was dangerous because he was intelligent on top of being savage. Like Angelus, he was emotionally intelligent & sometimes got off on psychologically breaking people. Like when Angelus kills Jenny Calender. Giles comes home looking for her, and finds a note that says "upstairs." When he goes up to his bedroom, he finds Jenny's body lying in his bed. That's something Creed would do -usually to Logan with one of his woman. Or when Creed spooked and broke down Xavier of all people with some of his comments. He had Rogue on the verge of tears when he talks about her power.

Then we all know about vol 2 of Weapon X, where Creed was always one step ahead of everyone, which the Director admits. He know how to sneak and get work done behind the scenes, set traps for the other agents, create situations that could provide distractions, etc.

That's Angelus. Angelus loved to lay out plans that would put his victims where he wanted them, and he enjoyed the game. Sometimes his playing around bit him in the ass and allowed someone to defeat him. Same with Creed. Like his fight with Marrow. He had great chances to kill her, but enjoyed tormenting her too much. Then he got too close to the water valve, allowing Marrow to flush him into the sewers.

But since late 2003, Creed has become Spike. A reckless, impatient, idiot who doesn't like to plan anything because it's too boring, when he could just jump in and go straight for it. But even Spike still did show some cunning on occasions, which is more than Creed has in the last 15 years.

The inversion has become the same. Instead of Angelus to Angel like Rememnder said, Pak went the Spike route. Where he tells us Creed is inverted, then writes him like a villain. He's working with Foreigner now. What good does it do to say he's inverted or still somewhat good only to turn around & promptly call him a bad guy, and constantly show him doing bad stuff. He's also clearly not remorseful about his past anymore.

So, seems Pak is a doofus who doesn't know what "inverted" means. Otherwise, we should be getting something similar to Angel. Not chipped Spike, which is the route he's taken. And that's not inverted.

And again, since Pak & Van Lente go out of their way to make Creed a dumbass, Idk how they plan to turn this around & seriously make him a leader that the book may center around when he's been nothing but the dumb punching-bag comedy relief that's not to be taken seriously, and who isn't a threat in any capacity.

I gotta be honest, it's been a while since I watched the Buffy or Angel Tv shows, so my memory is a little fuzzy I should try the comics by Whedon one day. But from what you're saying there are indeed a lot of similitudes between the two characters and that's a shame Marvel never knew what direction to go with Creed these last few years.

The inversion wearing off is the only explanation regarding Creed's recent behavior, and I'm sure by the end of this serie and with the return of the Original Wolverine, Creed will go back to his roots and will stop acting like a fool. At least I hope so lol.

[Silver Fang]

I gotta be honest, it's been a while since I watched the Buffy or Angel Tv shows, so my memory is a little fuzzy I should try the comics by Whedon one day. But from what you're saying there are indeed a lot of similitudes between the two characters and that's a shame Marvel never knew what direction to go with Creed these last few years.

The inversion wearing off is the only explanation regarding Creed's recent behavior, and I'm sure by the end of this serie and with the return of the Original Wolverine, Creed will go back to his roots and will stop acting like a fool. At least I hope so lol.

Creed will stop being a fool when he's finally got a good writer, which is scarce these days. Given him back to Brisson, Duggan, or Bunn. Idk why Pak gets to have him so long when he clearly doesn't get the character or use him for anything good.

And sorry for the Buffy deal. I only recently watched the series. So I remember things vividly. Lol

[berserkerclaw]

Continuity is crap in this series. they know who Omega Red is. and for creed to ask what he did come on. Creed was present the minute Red got created back in the 60s

[Silver Fang]

Continuity is crap in this series. they know who Omega Red is. and for creed to ask what he did come on. Creed was present the minute Red got created back in the 60s

Better than that, Creed fought & defeated Omega Red in X-Factor. So for Pak to turn around & have Creed acting like a scared child was also dumb as hell.
Beating Omega Red (1).jpg
Beating Omega Red (2).jpg

Same way Pak has Creed acting like he's never been in charge before. He led teams & missions before. He also ruled a nation with Mystique (Madripoor). So to have him acting like a kid getting to babysit for the first time is embarrassing.

On Omega Red, Creed mentions Red being as pathetic as he remembers. Again with this book not keeping its own continuity straight. Creed didn't know Red at the beginning, but then at the end, he remembers him..

So it's clear Pak didn't do any research on Sabretooth's character at all, which is why he's written like a dumb inexperienced hick. And that would be fine if it was just Pak, and this series was ending soon. But the book isn't stopping, and future writers are gonna be looking to this series for Sabretooth research since he was in it the longest, and we're gonna keep getting this arrested developed redneck that supposed to be Sabretooth.

[lurkerforyears]

Creed and Omega Red know each other since the 1960s when Logan, Creed and Maverick were in the CIA sponsored Team X that stole the carbonadium synthetizer from the Russians.

The CIA team was made of mutants who didn't know they were mutants because they had had their memories tampered, they realized they are mutants because they survived a 10 storeys fall escaping from Omega Red





I also don't have a problem with Omega Red beating Creed. Omega Red is a team buster and much stronger than Creed or Logan. Much greater superhuman strength, healing factor, death pherormones, life energy absorption and carbonadium tentacles. He was surely stronger than Dr Octopus, unless until Slott made a Peter Parker clone of him. Beating him is generally a team effort, or you need a gimmick like the muramasa sword

[Silver Fang]

I also don't have a problem with Omega Red beating Creed. Omega Red is a team buster and much stronger than Creed or Logan. Much greater superhuman strength, healing factor, death pherormones, life energy absorption and carbonadium tentacles. He was surely stronger than Dr Octopus, unless until Slott made a Peter Parker clone of him. Beating him is generally a team effort, or you need a gimmick like the muramasa sword

My mistake. I just woke up, and it's a bit early. So I thought berserkerclaw meant real-world sixties. lol Rather than comicbook sixties.

I have a problem with the fight being one-sided again. Jobbertooth does nothing but get his ass kicked with minimal effort. I recall when beating Sabretooth actually used to take a some effort. Not to say he didn't have his jobber moments, such as losing to Kitty Pryde of all people. But damn near every fight he's had since 2003 which starts with him jumping at someone and clawing air, then getting KO'd in one move.

Old Man Logan can kill an army of Hulks, but Creed gets his ass clobbered all over a book by one, and it's treated as funny. Logan can defeat an Adamantium laced Creed, and that's fine. Laura can kick his ass in all of 5 sec w/o him getting one hit on her. Deadpool takes him out easily in Axis. Rogue kicks his ass easily in Axis. And he's the bitch in his contrived relationship with Mystique. Then this case with Omega Red where he's screaming for his team to save his ass.

Here are his most recent notable wins lol



The Wolverines get to defeat opponents they have no business defeating -including Creed. Creed has gone from the stuff of nightmares and Logan's boogyman to an annoying punk that everyone keeps having to check.