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  1. #1
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    Default Marvel's OHC's Vs. Omnibuses / DC's Absolutes, Deluxe's Vs. Omnibuses

    Me personally, I don't care much for Marvel's OHC's cause they serve no purpose. They eventually make the Omnibuses with more stuff collected within them. In sometimes a better format, meaning better paper, and tons of extras. Or, in Hickman's cause a bigger book with horrible quality almost transparent bible like paper. To be frank, it's a draw. However, with OHC's It's just an excuse from Marvel to have fans double-dip into their products. Then once they release the Omnibus like Punisher MAX, the OHC's are worth completely nothing. When a year ago they were in the hundred's range. So the investment someone made on those was all for nothing. Honestly, that's why I hate collecting comics from Marvel, cause they ALWAYS do that.

    Like a great example is the new Thor series by Jason Aaron, they had standard HC's collecting 5 issues. Then they had double OHC's which collected about 12 issues. Now, they wanna make an Omnibus collecting all of it. So how many versions are you going to buy? It's seriously pointless. They should kill off making any future OHC's forever and just make Omnibuses. It doesn't make sense to keep having fans double-dip or even triple-dip, when it's the same exact product. Just a bigger size, but the same extras as before. Plus, on top of that, the single trades, and then the "Complete" or "Epic" Collections. It's like "Let's try to milk the fans for all we can" business.

    DC does it right, and I'll tell you why. Certain series or certain runs are deserved to be collected in Deluxe formats. There's a lot of them that get that treatment, but they're great books. Even their Absolutes are nice, I won't say all, cause a majority of the time you're actually getting ripped off. All-Star Batman being one of them. It's 10 Issues, but the Absolute only collects 9 of those said Issues. But for the most part, in cases like Wildcat's, you do get your money's worth. I kinda wished Alex Sinclair recolored the entire book, cause he's a great colorist to Jim Lee's artwork. But I do enjoy DC's releases over Marvel's cause DC doesn't really try to screw their fans and make them buy multiple copies of something. Watchmen excluded and same with Killing Joke. The only time I felt ripped off was with Swamp Thing's HC's being how it's newspaper, but I mean that's just a minor blemish, nothing too serious.

    Now, as for their Omnibuses, and their OHC's, if they could be called that. I personally just call them Omnibuses, like from Rebirth the HC's they have collecting double books. I like that a lot. That's the perfect way to collect something, without destroying it. And they do a great job of collecting those said series. Between Marvel and DC, I've been collecting more DC stuff recently besides Marvel Omnibuses and random other imprints HC's. Because DC literally gives you what you want. I remember I had asked Jim Lee himself about having a Deathstroke Omnibus collecting all of Tony S. Daniel's run. Cause it was that damn good, and low and behold, it's coming out. DC listens to their fans. Marvel, not so much.

    Of course, Marvel has better HC's like in terms of an actual books quality. But as of late, not so much. DC's been winning that battle. They've improved a lot throughout the years on their products and have made them a lot more durable and more collectable. Another thing I hate about Marvel, which is completely stupid, is they have variants of almost all of their Omnibuses and so fourth. Which to me serves no purpose, unless the person buying them is a complete tool, and will buy 20 of them and resell them on eBay for hundreds of dollars. Greed in this world sickens me a lot. And I hate people who are greedy, who try to capitalize on everything to make a profit cause that piece of garbage is too lazy to find a damn job. If it's a comic shop owner, I know owners who buy up to 5 copies only. So, it's like Marvel feeds these people's greed and obsessions to make more money off of something someone else could've appreciated more. But couldn't cause that person bought them all.

    But, between every single company and the actual quality of the books being produced. The best quality HC's I ever seen in my life is from Image. They give you a great product. I never had a single issue with anything Image has ever released. Same with Dark Horse, Boom Studios, IDW, they all have quality. Dark Horse has some of the thickest paper I ever seen, it's so thick you can't even set it on fire. It's almost fireproof. I noticed with certain Marvel Omnibuses, the paper shifts and gets like bent somehow. A good friend of mine had showed me some of his Omnibuses, and he's got those super nice shelves, not those cheap shit Ikea's. And the paper after a while starts deteriorating. Now, I got a ton of Omnibuses. But most of all of them are sealed. I mostly read DC HC's out of book, and mostly all Marvel stuff digitally. Unless I read it beforehand in the comic-shop I work at. Then I'll just buy it and archive it on my shelf. But yeah, Marvel's quality is pretty horrifying.

    I've read Batwoman: Deluxe by Greg Rucka probably a 100 times. I enjoyed that little mini a lot. It was great, and I kinda wished he went into it with JH Williams and Haden Blackman so it was like a super team of sorts. Since Rucka is a great writer. But like that book is like still in brand new condition. It has absolutely no wear. The binding is tough as hell. It's literally indestructible. I've read Messiah Complex a few times, like probably 10 times, and the books like falling apart. Actually, I've read like Jason Aaron's Hulk Books, there's 2, and I'll say that's a great run. I hope they Omnibus it. Anyways, those books have already fallen apart completely. And I was as fragile as fragile could be. The only time I ever had an issue with DC's books was with Saga of the Swamp Thing. Which I bought replacements after I sold my old copies and fixed that.

    What I'm referring to is like, when you open the books and the pages snap from the spine. Meaning like the hard page from the hardcover unglues itself, and becomes like completely messed up. So it looks like the pages are all going to fallout, I have that same problem with the MMW's books, it's like they print the books and the books are so delicate that they break upon opening them. So if they break that easily, why should anyone even invest the money on them. Most people who own MMW's don't even open up the damn books. They just leave them sealed on their shelves collecting dust, so they can sell them in the future when they need diapers for their babies or groceries for their families. Which in my head, is the only reason to buy MMW's cause they're basically money sitting in the bank, as far as opening them and reading them. I wouldn't go that far, cause those books are just awful quality printed books.

    I'll take this even further, I've got some MMW's with thick glossy pages, and actual newspaper pages in the same books. Which I don't even know how that's possibe to print something like that. It's like Marvel really knows how to botch a product pretty badly. So besides Omnibuses, I will never buy anything else from Marvel. Cause it's a waste of money. You're basically throwing your money in the garbage. As far as their standard HC's like from Infinity Gauntlet and such, those are great products, but I would only buy those as box-sets. I would never buy them as like single books, cause once again, you're ripping yourself off. You have to buy everything either as a full complete set of books, or as an Omnibus to truly get your money's worth from Marvel. With DC not so much, DC makes it easier for the consumer to buy, open and read books. Most notably on the Batman Trilogy Omnibuses, those are incredible. They open each issue as if it was printed separately. I hope they print future books that way, cause it's so much easier and better to enjoy a book more, than relaxing a spine. It's basically already done for you, in a better more accessible way.

  2. #2
    Spectacular Member VanWinkle's Avatar
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    Man, that is a LOT to parcel through.

    In regards to multiple formats from Marvel, it's not like they're offering all of them in order for you to buy every one. They're saying, here's this series in any format you may want it in. You decide. It's also a time calculation. If you want things as soon as possible? Get the initial trades/HCs. Want to wait a little while and get oversized art? Get the OHCs. Want to wait a long time but get more issues? Get the omnis.

    I have the OHCs of a lot of Marvel stuff that gets omnis. I have literally zero desire to get the omnis. Why should I? Barring any occasional slip outside of the conventional, Marvel OHCs and omnis are identical in build quality in the past few years.

    In addition, I have ~80 oversized books from DC, and almost as many from Marvel, and I don't think they're nearly as different as you're making them out to be.

    Regarding reprinting books, or decreased the perceived value of OHCs by printing omnis, you're looking at this from a completely wrong angle. You should never pay over cover for a book, and you should never buy books as an investment. Reprints/new prints are always a good thing. Why? It allows more people to read it.

    I'm honestly just really confused by all of your points, even as a huge DC fan myself.

  3. #3
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    I stopped reading after paragraph two, but to answer that question, the point IS to milk us for every penny. I don't like it, but that's business.

    And my favorite format is DC's Deluxe Editions. I'm trying to wean myself off of all omni's, they're just too unwieldy.
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  4. #4
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    No, I'm looking at this from an angle of a guy who's a collector, opposed to a dealer or seller. I've worked for many comic shops and I've seen people buy to increase profits, and I've seen people buy cause they're hardcore collectors with that statement.

    DC in terms of building a great product are doing it within the Rebirth Deluxe Editions. I own all of them currently and they're all great books. In terms of build, binding, cover art, they're just great made books. But they only have one HC edition for them. Which is great, cause that's the way it should be. One version, not multiple versions of the same HC's. The only other formats they have in HC editions are Absolutes and Omnibuses.

    My point is this, clear as day. Marvel has Standard, Deluxe, OHC, Omnibuses and most recently Adamantium Collections. But it's released in that order. In other words Marvel's reprinting the same book x-amount of times and thus milking the product for all it's worth.

    The most stupidest example is an easy one. I absolutely love Daniel Way's Deadpool a lot. It was my favorite run next to Joe Kelly's. And way better than Duggan's run, which is complete crap. Having Deadpool get married, have a kid and do all of this stuff was completely stupid. It was a mockery to the character, I don't care how real life he tried to make it. It was almost entirely garbage. Whoever thought that was a good idea should get fired for allowing it to happen. One of the most powerful Deadpool moment's was with Frank Tieri when he had the funeral with no text, and Death was finally with Deadpool, but she didn't want him to stay with her. So she sent him back, Tieri isn't the greatest writer, we all know this. But that was a very powerful issue, and defined Deadpool's character a lot cause it meant his true love was Death, and it shows it wasn't time for them to be together. Having Wade be with a woman, and have a kid was just wrong. Cause it throws his relationship with Death in the garbage. Why build all of that up for years with no payoff? It's one of the most disgusting inhumane atrocious things they could've ever done for that character. He goes from being this crazy serious, serial killing dude, who tried to change, into a completely mockery of what he once was. The movies are just as awful.

    I had to get that out of my system. I just think, Deadpool as a character now is more destroyed and more milked than anything humanly possible. That's probably why they choose to bring Wolverine back cause they know this. The only person who's even able to make a great Deadpool story recently is Cullen Bunn, which we all know this already. Anyways, Daniel Way's run was collected in Standard HC's at the time it came out. At the time, I collected them all. There's 11 of them, which there should've been 12. And they're greatly made. Very nice leather-bound books. I have the entire set. But, for the final book "Dead" it wasn't a Standard edition. It was an OHC. And not only that, around the same time, they re-released the first volume as an OHC collecting both volumes 1 and 2, along with the Thunderbolts crossover. But, they never did anything else going forward. Instead, they took the easy route and started releasing the "Complete Collections" of the series in 4 big trades.

    So it was like, a botch. They could've split the final volume "Dead" into 2 books in Standard size. Cause after all, the entire series was done in Standard HC's. The fact that the last volume isn't a Standard makes it ridiculous to look at on a shelf. Then, they re-release the first volume as an OHC, but then they just stop for some reason. Like did they do that so the first volume and last make like book ends to keep them all together? It's stuff like that, that makes me hate Marvel's business practices. Cause it's like, why do that with a series that was already fine in being printed in the way it was printed? As far as Daniel Way's Omnibus, I did buy it, cause I'll admit I loved the run a lot, and it's neat to have all of it on 2 big books. And you get everything within them collected, as to opposed to the original HC's that just collected the main series and no tie-in's. But, my point is, if you only get the series in Standard initially, why not keep it Standard, why go OHC at the end? It makes no sense and they do this with everything. Thor, Hulk, etc.

  5. #5
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    Well, one man’s trash is another man’s treasure. Duggan’s Deadpool run is my favorite run on the book.

  6. #6
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    I'm gonna be real about my views on this entire situation. Duggan honestly, he can't even write a half-decent comic, let alone be funny. Everything about him, and his writing process makes me cringe. He tries too damn hard to be funny, and instead of being funny it comes off being completely redundant blunder that's completely wasted. But the fact that he made Deadpool marry some ghetto ass female, and has a daughter with gapped teeth to look appealing to kids. Just so they could sell books to kids and make him more marketable for the movies makes me sick. To me, that's not funny, it's not humorous, it's not anything but pure garbage. Just like the Deadpool movies, which are a complete joke.

    Taking a serious character and making him some happy-go-lucky run-of-the-mill lead is atrocious, foul and a disgusting display of people not giving an honest crap in Marvel to allow that heap of rancid two bit garbage to even be published. It was nothing more than a damn embarrassment to the character. That's really how they're going to treat Deadpool after Rick Remender defined him in Uncanny X-Force, like really? And all of the groundwork that Daniel Way set for him? I feel as if Marvel will allow anyone to write comics for them nowadays. Like Way was incredible, and he's not even around anymore which sucks. Cause he was a hell of a lot better writer than what's being written now.

    A great example of that same thing is with Rick Remender. After he concluded his Uncanny X-Force run, they wanted to keep it going. Previously, before his run it was Kyle Yost, which was a phenomenal run as well. Clayton Crain is a beast artist. Anyways, after Remender, they had Sam Humphries on his own run, which in my eyes was awful. It was cancelled, cause the sales were so low. How could anyone possibly contend with Remender's work after it was finished? Then they had another run by Simon Spurrier, although a little better, but not by much. It was like a 3 out of 10 at best. I gotta say this, the artwork by Rock He-Kim was disgusting. Kim can't draw even if his life depended on it. And soon after that was cancelled. Then they had Cable and the X-Force by Dennis Hopeless, lol. God that sucked badly. Look at his career now, he's writing an awful WWE comic for all the marks.

    The only person who had a great run after Remender was Duane Swierczynski on Deadpool Vs. X-Force, that was fantastic. But after that, X-Force has been set aside until someone good can write it again. I would love if they had someone like David Hine, or Paul Jenkins write an X-Force run. I would pick Cullen Bunn again, cause he can write anything and make it great. But some guys I would love to see write it would have to be Peter Milligan, Peter David or even Mike Carey. Like use old-school legends to write an old-school take that's more aggressive and more adult'ish than the norm, but make it something memorable. Someone like Swierczynski is fully capable of doing that. Jeff Lemire as well. But it's not about topping Remender, although he set a pretty high bar to beat. It's about changing it again, and making it something more for a different audience.

    The people after Remender were just awful, besides Swierczynski, so if he was able to do that mini-series, I'm sure he could write a pretty damn good on-going X-Force run. He's still great and his work for other publishers is still top-notch. And that's saying a lot about him. James Robinson can do one, but he leaves projects too early and kills them too soon. Robinson is a modern day Warren Ellis, remember Karnak? Karnak was fantastic, great story, great art, everything, and the story was so built up, and the payoff was so horrible in the end. Not only was it horrible for us the readers and Karnak, nothing became of it after the series concluded prematurely. What a wasted effort on something that could have been otherwise amazing. The ending was just like depressing, made absolutely no-sense and had everyone thinking it was a completely pointless read. As awful as it was, I still loved it and still think it had some great potential. But what can you do, companies make the rules and people follow them. Some of the stuffs great, some bad. But it's always a draw.

  7. #7
    Spectacular Member Gurz's Avatar
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    Absolutes are my favorites, if all of a run is collected in them. (for example Absolute Azzarello WW or Absolute Sandman) Second favorite is Omnibuses cause Marvel or DC completely collect a run or event in them and that's great but sometimes most of the run is in them.. and that's annoying. Third is Deluxes couse they are OHCs.

  8. #8
    Spectacular Member Cap'n_RDM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katatonia View Post
    I'm gonna be real about my views on this entire situation. Duggan honestly, he can't even write a half-decent comic, let alone be funny. Everything about him, and his writing process makes me cringe. He tries too damn hard to be funny, and instead of being funny it comes off being completely redundant blunder that's completely wasted. But the fact that he made Deadpool marry some ghetto ass female, and has a daughter with gapped teeth to look appealing to kids. Just so they could sell books to kids and make him more marketable for the movies makes me sick. To me, that's not funny, it's not humorous, it's not anything but pure garbage. Just like the Deadpool movies, which are a complete joke.

    Taking a serious character and making him some happy-go-lucky run-of-the-mill lead is atrocious, foul and a disgusting display of people not giving an honest crap in Marvel to allow that heap of rancid two bit garbage to even be published. It was nothing more than a damn embarrassment to the character. That's really how they're going to treat Deadpool after Rick Remender defined him in Uncanny X-Force, like really? And all of the groundwork that Daniel Way set for him? I feel as if Marvel will allow anyone to write comics for them nowadays. Like Way was incredible, and he's not even around anymore which sucks. Cause he was a hell of a lot better writer than what's being written now.

    A great example of that same thing is with Rick Remender. After he concluded his Uncanny X-Force run, they wanted to keep it going. Previously, before his run it was Kyle Yost, which was a phenomenal run as well. Clayton Crain is a beast artist. Anyways, after Remender, they had Sam Humphries on his own run, which in my eyes was awful. It was cancelled, cause the sales were so low. How could anyone possibly contend with Remender's work after it was finished? Then they had another run by Simon Spurrier, although a little better, but not by much. It was like a 3 out of 10 at best. I gotta say this, the artwork by Rock He-Kim was disgusting. Kim can't draw even if his life depended on it. And soon after that was cancelled. Then they had Cable and the X-Force by Dennis Hopeless, lol. God that sucked badly. Look at his career now, he's writing an awful WWE comic for all the marks.

    The only person who had a great run after Remender was Duane Swierczynski on Deadpool Vs. X-Force, that was fantastic. But after that, X-Force has been set aside until someone good can write it again. I would love if they had someone like David Hine, or Paul Jenkins write an X-Force run. I would pick Cullen Bunn again, cause he can write anything and make it great. But some guys I would love to see write it would have to be Peter Milligan, Peter David or even Mike Carey. Like use old-school legends to write an old-school take that's more aggressive and more adult'ish than the norm, but make it something memorable. Someone like Swierczynski is fully capable of doing that. Jeff Lemire as well. But it's not about topping Remender, although he set a pretty high bar to beat. It's about changing it again, and making it something more for a different audience.

    The people after Remender were just awful, besides Swierczynski, so if he was able to do that mini-series, I'm sure he could write a pretty damn good on-going X-Force run. He's still great and his work for other publishers is still top-notch. And that's saying a lot about him. James Robinson can do one, but he leaves projects too early and kills them too soon. Robinson is a modern day Warren Ellis, remember Karnak? Karnak was fantastic, great story, great art, everything, and the story was so built up, and the payoff was so horrible in the end. Not only was it horrible for us the readers and Karnak, nothing became of it after the series concluded prematurely. What a wasted effort on something that could have been otherwise amazing. The ending was just like depressing, made absolutely no-sense and had everyone thinking it was a completely pointless read. As awful as it was, I still loved it and still think it had some great potential. But what can you do, companies make the rules and people follow them. Some of the stuffs great, some bad. But it's always a draw.
    I enjoy your passion regarding Deadpool but I feel you are being a little too Harsh on Duggan's overall writing capabilities. While his Deadpool issues may not be great (I've only read a handful of issues), I enjoyed Duggan's Uncanny Avengers run (although I do think he was leaning on Deadpool as a little bit of a crutch).

  9. #9
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    I really don't like his character development, cause it comes off one-sided instead of 2 dimensional. And, I did love Deadpool a lot as a character, he's a great character if the person who's writing him is competent enough to write him. In Duggan's cause, using the character as a crutch and trying to be funny, like forcing it almost entirely, makes the character come off as a 1 dimensional character and he loses luster. Which then makes him lack-luster, cause while Cullen Bunn is pumping out quality Deadpool mini's, Duggan is burying the character with his horrible run. Thanks to God it's ending though, and we can put all of that atrocious garbage behind us going forward.

    With that said, I'm excited about Scottie Young's take, cause Young is a damn good writer as well as an artist. Adam Glass did a great job with Mike Benson on their Deadpool mini's most notably Deadpool Pulp and Suicide Kings. Those were both amazing. Also, his Suicide Squad was super enjoyable as well. It's a shame that Glass doesn't do anything new. He was a really nice writer.

    I like funny writers, and I think a super funny writer would have to be Frank Miller. All-Star Batman made me laugh when Batman painted the house all Yellow to counteract Green Lantern's Green and then gets punched in the mouth for being completely stupid. I do, and I don't like Frank Miller. I love most of his works and most of them I absolutely hate with a passion. DKR was incredible, DKR2 was godawful garbage, DKR3 was the pinnacle. Master Race was written so well, it was a great story all the way through. It was like the past author, met the future author and together, they made this amazing work. I would consider that run to be like a movie release in how big it actually was and the payoff was great. Holy Terror was garbage. Miller's really a mixed bag of works, if you really think about it. But his greatest work will always be Daredevil without a doubt.
    Last edited by Katatonia; 05-03-2018 at 04:32 PM.

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