How do people feel about Ta Nehisi Coates writing Captain America

[BBeeryan]

Don't let Storm fans hear you say that.

I think the issue with Coates is maybe the books he need to be doing are closer to the types of book Image or Boom do now. Like Abbot or a more adult Goldie Vance. Where it's more talk than super powers or brawn.

Yes. I agree. He knows how to write Storm like nobody's business. Anyone claiming otherwise hasn't been reading correctly.

[capandkirby]

Here's the thing, sometimes the best writer could write a bad book and the worst writer could write a good one. Sometimes the characters and the narrative just aren't a good fit for a certain writer (for example Loeb - great writer but his Cap run with Liefeld was awful - that said he made up for it with the Fallen Son comic, which was beautiful).

Maybe Coates was a bad fit for Black Panther. Maybe his heart wasn't in it. Maybe he was at a bad place in his life. Maybe he was just getting his feet wet. That does not mean that he can't do a good Captain America. This is a project that he intentionally sought out. Will that help? I don't know. When Rick Remender took Cap he was less than enthusiastic, he went so far as to call Steve 'joyless' in an interview and this reflected in his writing of Steve. Remender's run of Cap was sub-par at best, and that's if I'm being generous. Coastes, however, wants to do it, wants to test his abilities as a writer, has stated that he wants to understand Steve because his and Steve's concept of the American Dream are so different. For me, as a fan of the character, that's half the battle, aka a writer actually interested in exploring the psychology of the character. I never got that from Brubaker, I always thought Brubaker was more interested in promoting Bucky through Steve than Steve as an individual by himself. Spencer always struck me as more interested in Sam. Waid, bless his heart, truly loves the character of Steve Rogers but the man is tired, he's been writing Steve Rogers on and off for twenty years. And to his credit he does a good job of it, the recent #700 was fantastic, but Waid has made no secret that he didn't want to return to a character he'd already explored, thoroughly, and only did so because Marvel asked and Samnee was interested in Cap being his final foray at Marvel and Waid loves working with Samnee.

It is... refreshing, as a long time Cap fan, to have a writer take the project because he's actually interested in doing it. As I just pointed out above, it's been a very long time since that has happened. Moreover, as a Steve Rogers fan, I loved that Coates does seem interested in understanding Steve, even if he doesn't agree that the American Dream is a thing that exists.

Call me an optimist, maybe even foolishly so, but I'm not ready to write Coates off yet. Particularly as we have yet to see a full Cap comic by him. Not all writers are one trick ponies. Sometimes the more they submerse themselves in a culture, like I'm sure writing comics can be like, the better they get. And yes, the reverse is also true, sometimes writers start out strong, fresh-faced and eager, and then start dialing it in. Either way, though, we have yet to see a single issue so it's a little premature to assume he's going to be terrible at it.

[MindofShadow]

Coastes, however, wants to do it, wants to test his abilities as a writer, has stated that he wants to understand Steve because his and Steve's concept of the American Dream are so different. For me, as a fan of the character, that's half the battle, aka a writer actually interested in exploring the psychology of the character.

Eh, what Coates says in interviews or youtube videos doesn't always match up what he put on panel. That happened a lot in the early parts of BP when he used to make youtube videos about every issue.

He also claimed, many times, the BP was his favorite character in the book... and then turn around and put him in the background. He clearly preferred the Doras, Shuri, and even Chang to T'challa.

And in Season 2, he spent a whole year to prop up Storm (who is also wrote in the Crew).

If he likes a character, he can be at least competent. I still think his story telling abilities in general leave a lot to be desired though.

[skyvolt2000]

Call me an optimist, maybe even foolishly so, but I'm not ready to write Coates off yet. Particularly as we have yet to see a full Cap comic by him. Not all writers are one trick ponies. Sometimes the more they submerse themselves in a culture, like I'm sure writing comics can be like, the better they get. And yes, the reverse is also true, sometimes writers start out strong, fresh-faced and eager, and then start dialing it in. Either way, though, we have yet to see a single issue so it's a little premature to assume he's going to be terrible at it.

What a writer says and is ALLOWED to do is two different stories.

Example Scott McDaniel who ALSO did youtube videos for Static and claimed he liked the character too. He along with Cyborg's current editor RUINED Static. The Ms Marvel of the 90s with a hit tv show got ruined by a "fan".

The issue always falls back to what the editor ALLOWS to be done.
If his Panther run was done with freedom-CA fans better worry. If that run was with editors help-CA fans better WORRY.

Videos and quotes for youtube don't matter if that same "love" does NOT end up in the book.

[Daniel22]

I had to look up the quotes everyone is referring to. I didn't realize they were from a book of his that I have read. They didn't make enough of an impact on me for me to take issue with or note. I think it's because I read them in context, directly from him, without another writer or message board influencing the direction. I understood the point he was trying to make. I can understand why others have taken issue with them, though. Police and firemen, especially those connected to 9/11, have reached religious/military levels of "Not to be challenged under any circumstance" with a portion of Americans. I think it's mainly the portion of Americans who find that the status quo works quite well for them as historically constructed, and who have no interest in any questioning of the physical manifestation of their religion's higher powers... in this case the religion is the sanitized textbook depiction of America, and the first responders have filled the messianic role quite nicely by literally saving people from the brown skinned Adversary.

[Agent Z]

I think the issue is that Panther should be seen as Red Skull's equal if not superior because, well, he is.

I saw nothing in that story to suggest otherwise.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I saw nothing in that story to suggest otherwise.

Presuming that this is the Johns' Avengers arc, the story did treat T'Challa and Red Skull as equals when they fought.

But really, T'Challa should have been the superior one. He's far better trained in hand to hand combat, among other things. Red Skull was in a cloned body of Steve Rogers, but that doesn't make him as tough as Cap. Kingpin outfought him in hand to hand, for example.

I think Johns just never found his groove with Avengers, but to his credit, he is one of the few who tried to use Priest's take with Panther.

It's just that his execution left something to be desired.

[Tiamatty]

I saw nothing in that story to suggest otherwise.

The fact that Red Skull was actually beating T'Challa in a fight, until Falcon summoned a flock of birds as a distraction? Because I feel like that implies the Red Skull is actually the superior fighter.

And I want a story where the Black Panther is just straight-up better, in every conceivable way, than any Nazi *******. In general, if Nazis are going to be getting used in stories, I would much rather they be defeated by the people they feel are inferior. And defeated fair and square, not through the non-white hero having to resort to tricks.

[MindofShadow]

Presuming that this is the Johns' Avengers arc, the story did treat T'Challa and Red Skull as equals when they fought.

But really, T'Challa should have been the superior one. He's far better trained in hand to hand combat, among other things. Red Skull was in a cloned body of Steve Rogers, but that doesn't make him as tough as Cap. Kingpin outfought him in hand to hand, for example.

I think Johns just never found his groove with Avengers, but to his credit, he is one of the few who tried to use Priest's take with Panther.

It's just that his execution left something to be desired.

At least the end was iconic.

But yeah, they were equals in that story. Skull got upper hand in beginning. Tchalla got upper hand after he got back up the window lol

[The Cool Thatguy]

At least the end was iconic.

But yeah, they were equals in that story. Skull got upper hand in beginning. Tchalla got upper hand after he got back up the window lol

The ending was good, yeah, but getting to that point...Johns really needed an editor (why the hell would anyone leave a watch on Tony freakin' Stark?).

There are any number of ways Skull could have, and should have, cheated to give him an advantage over T'Challa

[Agent Z]

The fact that Red Skull was actually beating T'Challa in a fight, until Falcon summoned a flock of birds as a distraction? Because I feel like that implies the Red Skull is actually the superior fighter.

And I want a story where the Black Panther is just straight-up better, in every conceivable way, than any Nazi *******. In general, if Nazis are going to be getting used in stories, I would much rather they be defeated by the people they feel are inferior. And defeated fair and square, not through the non-white hero having to resort to tricks.

Do you think Spider-Man is inferior to his enemies when he uses tricks to beat them? And it needs to be stated again, T'Challa defeated the Red Skull with help from another black man. And while Skull was landing hits, it's a stretch to say he was beating T'Challa.

[Hypestyle]

who will be the new villains? how about a natural disaster, requiring lots of rescues? No super-villains?

[Tiamatty]

Do you think Spider-Man is inferior to his enemies when he uses tricks to beat them? And it needs to be stated again, T'Challa defeated the Red Skull with help from another black man. And while Skull was landing hits, it's a stretch to say he was beating T'Challa.

The difference is that Spider-Man isn't usually fighting Nazis. Captain America routinely fights Nazis, and is usually able to beat them fairly, without resorting to tricks or to back-up. Put a black guy against a Nazi? Suddenly, the only way they can win is if someone else helps them out. Screw that. I want to see Nazis get their asses kicked by people they claim are inferior, not the kind of blond-haired blue-eyed white guy who is the visual embodiment of their ideal.

[The Ray]

Are Nazi villains especially weak or something? Do the heroes get a boost when they fight a Nazi?

[Tiamatty]

Are Nazi villains especially weak or something? Do the heroes get a boost when they fight a Nazi?

Nazis are just awful and deserve all the punches.