Just how fast is CW Flash now?

[big_adventure]

Exactly. So take those writers, put in Barry Allen showing up as the explosion at the X-Mansion starts and Havok lives because Barry is that much faster than Quicksilver.

Now put Quicksilver in the CW universe and he becomes as stupid as Flash and Reverse Flash, taken out easily by villains with ordinary human reaction speeds because he likes to moonwalk at normal speed instead of super fast.

One argument there: Havok doesn't live as he was dead before Quicky realized anything was happening at all - and the same would happen to Barry.

Second argument: as bad as X-Men writing can be, movie Quicksilver is just so damn cool that he'd escape the CW-induced PIS field.

[Anarchist]

Eh, unlike Peter Barry can go back in time and save Havok :P

[master of read]

Eh, unlike Peter Barry can go back in time and save Havok :P

yeah because barry going back in time has always worked out great.

[The Drunkard Kid]

Exactly. So take those writers, put in Barry Allen showing up as the explosion at the X-Mansion starts and Havok lives because Barry is that much faster than Quicksilver.

Now put Quicksilver in the CW universe and he becomes as stupid as Flash and Reverse Flash, taken out easily by villains with ordinary human reaction speeds because he likes to moonwalk at normal speed instead of super fast.

Point: it's very likely that Havok would still be dead, because Havok probably died before QS/Barry even realized that there was an explosion since it happened within fairly close range of Havok, in a secured (basement?) bunker, on the other side of campus, and QS went to investigate because he saw the light of the explosion in the first floor windows while just coming to see the Professor on an unrelated matter.

[big_adventure]

Well, after some thought, I'm going to bring out two other points here:

1. Barry's speed. The nuclear explosion feat is, at the current time, a pretty serious outlier. Barry is fast as hell, but that feat is ridiculous, and far, far beyond anything else he's ever done. Has Barry had explicit upgrades? Yes! But you know who hasn't? ANY OTHER SPEEDSTER, and TWO others kept up just fine thanks in "Flash Time" during that scene. Yes, they got tired somewhat before Barry, but had no problem working with him for a while at that speed. Basically, I just don't think that the writers even consider how fast Barry is going: it'll take him 15 seconds to cross town sometimes, and 15 to run to China. It took him 30 seconds to run back from somewhere up north, this right after he is Wile E. Coyote'd by a dude opening visible portals with normal human reactions. While he's already at super speed (lightning around him and everything) he gets shot and hit with SOUND WAVES or PUNCHES. And every one of the "good" feats is a pale shadow to "operating significantly while a nuclear explosion is starting."

2. Fox Quicksilver, on the contrary, is basically never shown going all out. Everything is basically a game to him. He's having fun during the kitchen scene, doing what it takes to make things funny, smiling, stopping for a snack, running on the wall when he has no need to do so, etc. He's having even more fun during the rescue scene, and CLEARLY isn't going all out, given that several times he goes super-speed even relative to the super-speed he's already moving at when something has to happen extra-quickly.

Not even remotely getting into a debate on their relative speed here, just that Barry, while clearly up to crazy silly ludicrous speed now and again, isn't really generally shown to operate at "freezes time around a nuclear explosion" levels outside of that one episode, and, while HE might have some explanation for moving at such speeds, the other speedsters involved definitely do NOT.

[master of read]

only thing i can think of is due to him having gone to the speed force and back a few times. sure wally has been there once before but it did kind of **** him up for a bit. but AFAIK, barry's been the only speedster who's been than more than once.

but i will need to catch up on the last half season.

[big_adventure]

only thing i can think of is due to him having gone to the speed force and back a few times. sure wally has been there once before but it did kind of **** him up for a bit. but AFAIK, barry's been the only speedster who's been than more than once.

but i will need to catch up on the last half season.

The issue is that Jesse and Jay kept up with him just fine for the nuke feat, without anything like his explicit upgrades. Don't get me wrong: I expect that they will confirm that level of speed here, just that, for the moment, it's kind of waaaaaaaayyyyyyy past everything else the guy has done, to say nothing of the other two.

[Basara]

1. Barry's speed. The nuclear explosion feat is, at the current time, a pretty serious outlier. Barry is fast as hell, but that feat is ridiculous, and far, far beyond anything else he's ever done. Has Barry had explicit upgrades? Yes! But you know who hasn't? ANY OTHER SPEEDSTER, and TWO others kept up just fine thanks in "Flash Time" during that scene. Yes, they got tired somewhat before Barry, but had no problem working with him for a while at that speed. Basically, I just don't think that the writers even consider how fast Barry is going: it'll take him 15 seconds to cross town sometimes, and 15 to run to China. It took him 30 seconds to run back from somewhere up north, this right after he is Wile E. Coyote'd by a dude opening visible portals with normal human reactions. While he's already at super speed (lightning around him and everything) he gets shot and hit with SOUND WAVES or PUNCHES. And every one of the "good" feats is a pale shadow to "operating significantly while a nuclear explosion is starting."

It would be an outlier if it weren't for the running to China and back in one rotation of a camera and the "Barry Allen is the FL..." freeze time to have a 5 minute CW drama scene in the courtroom about how Iris can't complete that sentence, how this isn't the way to defeat Devoe, how much he's going to miss her, that it isn't fair because they finally just got married, and probably a whole bunch of stuff I've forgotten before he brings them both back to that exact second and Iris stops herself from completing the word "Flash" feats.

2. Fox Quicksilver, on the contrary, is basically never shown going all out.

Even if he is being non-serious and just having fun, you know for a fact that he isn't running at full speed how exactly? You might be right. Quicksilver might actually be faster than portrayed on the screen. You just have no way of actually proving that.

as bad as X-Men writing can be, movie Quicksilver is just so damn cool that he'd escape the CW-induced PIS field.

Cisco's arguably as cool and possibly cooler than Quicksilver and even he can't escape the dreaded CW induced PIS field. Nothing can.

yeah because barry going back in time has always worked out great.

It actually has. Cisco, Oliver, Kendra, Carter, and everyone in Central City are all alive strictly because Barry changed the past on two separate occasions. Granted, Barry didn't realize that he saved Cisco's life until later after his first time travel adventure, but it still happened for the best.

[SpiderClops]

No speedster can escape PIS...

From 1:35 to 1:41

[big_adventure]

Cisco's arguably as cool and possibly cooler than Quicksilver.

See, saying something like that pretty much invalidates anything else you could ever say on the subject. Cisco is not even a little bit cool, in any way, and he might be the ONLY character in the history of televised fiction with MORE PIS then Barry. He CONSTANTLY forgets his powers, his skills, everything.

[Basara]

See, saying something like that pretty much invalidates anything else you could ever say on the subject. Cisco is not even a little bit cool, in any way, and he might be the ONLY character in the history of televised fiction with MORE PIS then Barry. He CONSTANTLY forgets his powers, his skills, everything.

While the basement dwelling, funny dressing, video game playing nerd that is Quicksilver is the epitome of cool? Or did you forget the massive amount of nerd rage that happened when X-Men fans got their first look at Quicksilver before Days of Future Past hit the theaters? To say that fans were not pleased with Quicksilver's look was an understatement.

Or perhaps you should dial it back a notch and realize that both characters were break-out fan favorite characters in their respective movies/shows. The fans love both characters and think both are really cool, despite how nerdy they actually are.

[Cyke]

yeah because barry going back in time has always worked out great.

It doesn't change that Barry can do it. What comes next, though, is on him.

Amd now, let us chant the refrain of the show. *Clears throat *

Altogether now: "BARRY NO"

I forgot to account for the required CW melodrama.

Yeah, no amount of superspeed is going to change that.

[big_adventure]

While the basement dwelling, funny dressing, video game playing nerd that is Quicksilver is the epitome of cool? Or did you forget the massive amount of nerd rage that happened when X-Men fans got their first look at Quicksilver before Days of Future Past hit the theaters? To say that fans were not pleased with Quicksilver's look was an understatement.

Or perhaps you should dial it back a notch and realize that both characters were break-out fan favorite characters in their respective movies/shows. The fans love both characters and think both are really cool, despite how nerdy they actually are.

Slow your roll, there. When I say Cisco isn't cool, I'm actually speaking of how he's either a panicked idiot or a useless blowhard in nearly every stress situation, despite his massive and impressive powerset and intellect. When I say that Quicksilver is cool, I'm referring how he doesn't panic, doesn't stress, and shows an abundance of confidence that he absolutely lives up to every single time he tries to, and does it while CLEARLY still having fun and appreciating just how damn awesome his abilities are.

I couldn't seriously care less if people like Cisco's character or not - it's not at all what I'm talking about. I'm talking about how much he LOSES his cool, despite... having literally every reason not to (awesome powers, hot girlfriend until a week or two ago, brilliant mind, all the toys in the world, friends who love and respect him)... almost every time push comes to shove. That's part of his charm to viewers, I get that. But it's again not what I mean.

Now, what actually STARTED this is the ridiculously obvious fact that, even in the explosion scene, Quicksilver was NOT AT ALL going anything like "all out." And this is obvious because he takes loads of time to screw around, and also when he invisible super-speeds himself from inside the already-super-speeded world. He can CLEARLY go much faster than his "screwing around" level, because he does exactly that MULTIPLE TIMES in that scene alone. And oh-by-the-way saves everyone saveable without breaking a sweat while so doing. I'm not challenging precious sweet Barry (or Cisco) in saying this. I'm not even saying that it makes Quicky faster than Barry.

Quicky might be as fast as Barry, he might not be (and probably isn't). He lacks ALL of Barry's other ridiculous powers: time travel through speed force silliness, speed force silliness in general, bringing people into Flash time, phasing, lightning, making silly tornadoes. The only things he does better are avoid PIS and translate speed into strength (he hits much harder and does some insane throwing things without even really trying). Oh that, and speed up music to be real time to him while he's being ridiculous.

[The Arbiter]

Just a couple of tiny points, and then I'm gone.

1: Running to China and back in 15 seconds is absurdly slower than lightspeed.

2: having a 3 minute conversation before anyone notices you have moved (the courtroom scene) is ridiculously slow compared to lightspeed.

Lightspeed can take you to the moon in 2-3 seconds. A car driving at highway speeds with no stops would take 6 months for reference.

[The Arbiter]

Some other fun facts!*

Quicksilver is shown walking around and eating and such in the time it takes a bee's wings to fall once or twice. The average honeybee flaps its wings about 230 times a second. Pretty good.

The mansion scene is ridiculously better. Lets assume the explosion was moving at say... I dunno, the same speed as C4 explosions do. That's over 8,000 meters per second. So in 1 second that explosion (if it had the yield to continue that is) could cross over 8 kilometers. He does a lot more than stand around here. He scours the place, collects students from all over, tosses them at pre planned and constructed safety nets and so on. All while maintaining a cheerful and playful demeanor.

Several times in this scene, and against Apocalypse later, he speeds up to a barely decipherable blur to our perspective, even though we as the audience have been scaled up to speed. That is him "being serious" imo.

So explosion is 8 kilometers a second. Lightspeed is nearly 300k kilometers a second.

* I am not arguing who is faster or anything like that. Clearly Barry has awesome feats. I just love breaking this stuff down :P