Just how fast is CW Flash now?

[Marvel-Studios Rep]

I feel like CW Flash maybe has to consciously active and consciously think himself fast to stay that way. Maybe in explicit combat situations where he's hyped up on adrenaline that isn't needed though. *I could be way off base since I haven't watched the show since he went into the speed force...and long before that.

[Pendaran]

He's dodged stuff just fine in ways that would make that being a requirement of his powers impossible. It's just standard speedster PIS stuff that for some reason people don't want to acknowledge the CW Flash being subject to as much as any other speedster with more than a tiny handful of appearances.

[Basara]

Barry has some mildly to vastly supersonic feats, and one (count them, I'll give you a second: yup, it's one) feat of lightspeed-ish outlier-ness. That's an outlier here on this board.

Two. You keep ignoring the courtroom scene where Barry brings Iris into Flashtime where time has pretty much stopped. Possibly three with the prison card game, but I don't have enough information to see if he actually Flashtimed or not, so I'll ignore this one.

3. Quicksilver has more or less done all kinds of "time is stopped or virtually so" stuff requiring vastly supersonic speed. Just like Barry. And Peter shows in basically every one of them that that particular level is his "screwing around and playing" level. Because every time, he then goes crazy invisible fast FROM INSIDE THE TIME STOP/mega-slow. Not that they should be amplified, but rather that you need to take the consistent, high-end stuff, which is him going invisible super mega stupid fast on top of the time almost-stop that we already see him wandering around and playing in. Because he does this every time.

Except Peter has never moved so fast that he has stopped time. Slowed it significantly? Yes. But stopped? Not even close. You see bullets, explosive fire, and even soup moving while Peter is running. In his second feat, Peter had to resort to throwing kids outside because he was running out of time when the mansion was exploding. That right there suggests that Peter was going all out and cannot go any faster.

You can claim he's screwing around and capable of going faster all you want. No one will believe it until it happens on screen. Nor should they believe it until it actually happens.

4. I never claimed that Peter is faster than current Barry.

Then why are you still trying to say that Peter has stopped time, just like Barry? You are at the very least implying that movie Quicksilver is equal to Barry by stating that Barry's Flashtime feats are outliers.

I did absolutely claim that Barry is MUCH more crippled by PIS.

I actually did agree with you on this. CW Flash is written just like comic Flash. Stupid amounts of PIS are required when writing about any speedster to create interesting stories. That's why I maintain that Quicksilver would succumb to the same amount of PIS as Barry if written by the same writers. In Peter's case though, they would rely on Quicksilver's immaturity and tendency to treat everything like a game instead of Barry's naivety and good nature for the PIS incidents.

[SpiderClops]

There was also this very very early in the series.

[The Arbiter]

In his second feat, Peter had to resort to throwing kids outside because he was running out of time when the mansion was exploding. That right there suggests that Peter was going all out and cannot go any faster.

You can claim he's screwing around and capable of going faster all you want. No one will believe it until it happens on screen. Nor should they believe it until it actually happens.

https://youtu.be/Spsu46q9vek
I'm not touching the other stuff, but big_adventure isn't crazy when he says the guy is goofing around and is capable of much higher speeds.

Pay special attention to 1:17, 1:36 and 1:58.

Keep in mind our perception as the audience has been dialed up to his speed. An explosion that is (probably) moving around 8,000 meters a second is slowed to a crawl. We see him tussling students hair, chugging soda, smiling and collecting goldfish. All while constructing a makeshift safety net for his human missiles.

The time stamps I gave you are important because they showcase what big was saying about him moving at "barely perceivable blur speeds" despite we, the audience, seeing things from his normal slowed perception. There is no real indication of stress or fatigue from doing so.

[The Arbiter]

That all said, Quicksilver is still molasses on a glacier compared to barry.

Lets say he and the explosion are relatively similar in speed when he is moving at his "normal" audience level super speed. That is to say he can maybe be moving around 10 kilometers a second (I'm rounding up). Then lets be generous and say when he is moving at "blur" speeds from the audience's perspective, he is... oh I dunno, 25 x faster than that. We don't know for sure, but what the heck, it's a fun number to toss around. That would put him at 250 kilometers per second running speed at his assumed max.

250 kilometers a second is absolutely incredible but....

Lets look at Barry. Earlier in this thread, someone mentioned he ran to China and back in approximately 15 seconds.* Make some assumptions about his location and route and we can work out that he was probably travelling at *drum roll* 1,666 kilometers per second.

Quicksilver would be like that slow, fat kid with asthma jocks like to make fun of, with a limp, compared to Usain Bolt lol.

*I haven't confirmed or researched this feat. Just taking the earlier comment at face value.

EDIT: Ok, I've confirmed the feat. Took Barry 13 seconds and he was carrying a large man for half the trip.

Even if you said Quicksilver can move 2x as fast as the explosion normally and 50x faster when at blur speeds, he's still falling short by multiple hundreds of kilometers a second.

[The Drunkard Kid]

There was also this very very early in the series.

This doesn't really require anywhere near light speed levels of reflexes, and unless the court scene involved gunfire not moving, probably wouldn't be anything major to a guy that was dancing, playing darts, screwing with people's hair, setting up probably-unnecessarily elaborate rescues, drinking, etc... while searching an unfamiliar campus to rescue everyone from an explosion that had started before he even started moving.

I'm not saying that QS is faster than current Barry, only that scenes where Barry is making normal people seem frozen in time isn't particularly impressive to either of them at any point of their careers. It's like arguing that Silver Surfer is faster than Superman by citing a scene where Surfer does a perfect run of Through the Fire and Flames in Guitar Hero.

[The Drunkard Kid]

That all said, Quicksilver is still molasses on a glacier compared to barry.

Lets say he and the explosion are relatively similar in speed when he is moving at his "normal" audience level super speed. That is to say he can maybe be moving around 10 kilometers a second (I'm rounding up). Then lets be generous and say when he is moving at "blur" speeds from the audience's perspective, he is... oh I dunno, 25 x faster than that. We don't know for sure, but what the heck, it's a fun number to toss around. That would put him at 250 kilometers per second running speed at his assumed max.

250 kilometers a second is absolutely incredible but....

Lets look at Barry. Earlier in this thread, someone mentioned he ran to China and back in approximately 15 seconds.* Make some assumptions about his location and route and we can work out that he was probably travelling at *drum roll* 1,666 kilometers per second.

Quicksilver would be like that slow, fat kid with asthma jocks like to make fun of, with a limp, compared to Usain Bolt lol.

*I haven't confirmed or researched this feat. Just taking the earlier comment at face value.

EDIT: Ok, I've confirmed the feat. Took Barry 13 seconds and he was carrying a large man for half the trip.

Even if you said Quicksilver can move 2x as fast as the explosion normally and 50x faster when at blur speeds, he's still falling short by multiple hundreds of kilometers a second.

The problem with this calculation is that QS wasn't moving only a bit faster than the explosion, he was doing a whole bunch of things at a normal pace and even more extremely blur speeds while searching a large, unfamiliar building for people (and a dog) to physically carry or throw out (as well as chucking out two large curtains and kicking what seems to be a heavy table through a window to surf on), and repeatedly entering and exiting an area safely outside the maximum blast radius of the explosion, with the explosion moving at a crawl whenever he was goofing off in its general vicinity.

[big_adventure]

That all said, Quicksilver is still molasses on a glacier compared to barry.

Lets say he and the explosion are relatively similar in speed when he is moving at his "normal" audience level super speed. That is to say he can maybe be moving around 10 kilometers a second (I'm rounding up). Then lets be generous and say when he is moving at "blur" speeds from the audience's perspective, he is... oh I dunno, 25 x faster than that. We don't know for sure, but what the heck, it's a fun number to toss around. That would put him at 250 kilometers per second running speed at his assumed max.

250 kilometers a second is absolutely incredible but....

Lets look at Barry. Earlier in this thread, someone mentioned he ran to China and back in approximately 15 seconds.* Make some assumptions about his location and route and we can work out that he was probably travelling at *drum roll* 1,666 kilometers per second.

Quicksilver would be like that slow, fat kid with asthma jocks like to make fun of, with a limp, compared to Usain Bolt lol.

*I haven't confirmed or researched this feat. Just taking the earlier comment at face value.

EDIT: Ok, I've confirmed the feat. Took Barry 13 seconds and he was carrying a large man for half the trip.

Even if you said Quicksilver can move 2x as fast as the explosion normally and 50x faster when at blur speeds, he's still falling short by multiple hundreds of kilometers a second.

Those calcs are pretty seriously understating what he does, however, given that he runs at least 100 meters in and out of the mansion repeatedly while the explosion moves inches or less. He individually brings tons of folks out of the mansion all the way to standing outside and watching the show. You can see how far it moves when he flashes in and out, and how far he has to go. He's moving at least a thousand times the speed of the explosion in those moments, and likely considerably faster. And again, he's never really stressed to the point of "shit be getting desperate here."

[big_adventure]

Two. You keep ignoring the courtroom scene where Barry brings Iris into Flashtime where time has pretty much stopped. Possibly three with the prison card game, but I don't have enough information to see if he actually Flashtimed or not, so I'll ignore this one.

No, I'm not ignoring anything. Those scene don't require over "some decent level of hypersonic" to pull off. Hell, the card game and the prison fight scenes don't even require THAT level.

Except Peter has never moved so fast that he has stopped time. Slowed it significantly? Yes. But stopped? Not even close. You see bullets, explosive fire, and even soup moving while Peter is running. In his second feat, Peter had to resort to throwing kids outside because he was running out of time when the mansion was exploding. That right there suggests that Peter was going all out and cannot go any faster.

You can claim he's screwing around and capable of going faster all you want. No one will believe it until it happens on screen. Nor should they believe it until it actually happens.

Actually, I'm kind of sure that almost everyone here agrees with me on this, because it's super clear. It REPEATEDLY happens on screen.

Then why are you still trying to say that Peter has stopped time, just like Barry? You are at the very least implying that movie Quicksilver is equal to Barry by stating that Barry's Flashtime feats are outliers.

I didn't imply anything. And Barry's feats aren't the same as each other. That's the entire point of my post here.

I actually did agree with you on this. CW Flash is written just like comic Flash. Stupid amounts of PIS are required when writing about any speedster to create interesting stories. That's why I maintain that Quicksilver would succumb to the same amount of PIS as Barry if written by the same writers. In Peter's case though, they would rely on Quicksilver's immaturity and tendency to treat everything like a game instead of Barry's naivety and good nature for the PIS incidents.

Eh, it's not Barry that has PIS, it's the writers of the show. They could figure a much better way to write this, they just don't. That's annoying. And Barry therefore is written as a doofus who can't remember something simple like "grab bad guy, run to pipeline, leave bad guy there" when that opportunity is available. But it's not a dislike for Barry that makes me say that, it's a dislike for lazy writing. They COULD avoid that sometimes by coming up with reasons not to do that, they just don't usually bother. And they do things like have massively hypersonic guys get hit by audible sound waves.

[The Arbiter]

Those calcs are pretty seriously understating what he does, however, given that he runs at least 100 meters in and out of the mansion repeatedly while the explosion moves inches or less. He individually brings tons of folks out of the mansion all the way to standing outside and watching the show. You can see how far it moves when he flashes in and out, and how far he has to go. He's moving at least a thousand times the speed of the explosion in those moments, and likely considerably faster. And again, he's never really stressed to the point of "shit be getting desperate here."

Wait, so you do in fact believe him to be faster than Barry? Because saying he is thousands of times faster than explosion is you implying as much.

Keep in mind that all of my calcs are taking huge assumptions into play and are not exactly proof of any hard #'s.

And my original #'s for Barry were based on 15 seconds not 13, and don't take into account that he was carrying a 250lbs man on half the journey lol.

Edit: basically the calcs were for fun and should not be used as an authoritative statement for anything.

[big_adventure]

Wait, so you do in fact believe him to be faster than Barry? Because saying he is thousands of times faster than explosion is you implying as much.

Keep in mind that all of my calcs are taking huge assumptions into play and are not exactly proof of any hard #'s.

And my original #'s for Barry were based on 15 seconds not 13, and don't take into account that he was carrying a 250lbs man on half the journey lol.

Edit: basically the calcs were for fun and should not be used as an authoritative statement for anything.

Not saying he's faster or slower really. Excluding the outlier-ish nuke feat, their high-end stuff is pretty close. Barry has MUCH MUCH MUCH more low end stuff (trying for months and failing to hit low mach numbers, sound waves catching him, normal speed folks slapping him out of blitzes, etc.), but high-end is pretty much a push, or within the same range. Just saying that the "50x" calc proposed for Peter for his hyper-inside-hyperspeed moments is WAAAAAAY too low.

But yeah, I don't think that calcs are the end all, be all here either. Useful to show the range. And both of them are in a really high range, just not in the Barry/Jay/Jesse nuke feat range.

[The Arbiter]

Not saying he's faster or slower really. Excluding the outlier-ish nuke feat, their high-end stuff is pretty close. Barry has MUCH MUCH MUCH more low end stuff (trying for months and failing to hit low mach numbers, sound waves catching him, normal speed folks slapping him out of blitzes, etc.), but high-end is pretty much a push, or within the same range. Just saying that the "50x" calc proposed for Peter for his hyper-inside-hyperspeed moments is WAAAAAAY too low.

But yeah, I don't think that calcs are the end all, be all here either. Useful to show the range. And both of them are in a really high range, just not in the Barry/Jay/Jesse nuke feat range.

Ok, but even if you say he's 150x faster than the explosion, he's still several hundred kilometers per second slower if you look at just the amount of time it took Barry to get to China. From the moment he grabs the prisoner, it takes like 1.5 seconds for him to get to the Great Wall if you take the video at face value. Heck even 300x faster than the explosion is still too slow.

Meh, I'm obviously taking this too far if even I don't think the calcs are super useful based on all the assumptions lol.

Edit: I mean 600x faster than the explosion. Explosion is 8 kilometers per second, normal speed 20 kps, blur speed is 300x faster. All assumptions. All worthless LOL. I need sleep

[big_adventure]

Ok, but even if you say he's 150x faster than the explosion, he's still several hundred kilometers per second slower if you look at just the amount of time it took Barry to get to China. From the moment he grabs the prisoner, it takes like 1.5 seconds for him to get to the Great Wall if you take the video at face value. Heck even 300x faster than the explosion is still too slow.

Meh, I'm obviously taking this too far if even I don't think the calcs are super useful based on all the assumptions lol.

Edit: I mean 600x faster than the explosion. Explosion is 8 kilometers per second, normal speed 20 kps, blur speed is 300x faster. All assumptions. All worthless LOL. I need sleep

That's the thing: he's faster than even 600x, really. When he zaps people from inside to outside to back inside he flashes from inside to outside to back in in the space of the explosion moving no more than inches. And he's covering at LEAST 150 or more meters each time he does that. He also goes even farther than that to put up the curtain net before going back in to do the rest. All in a span of inches for the explosion.

[The Arbiter]

That's the thing: he's faster than even 600x, really. When he zaps people from inside to outside to back inside he flashes from inside to outside to back in in the space of the explosion moving no more than inches. And he's covering at LEAST 150 or more meters each time he does that. He also goes even farther than that to put up the curtain net before going back in to do the rest. All in a span of inches for the explosion.

I personally feel like 600x is generous, but mileage may vary.

Saying he's doing it "way" faster than that is you arguing he's a lot faster than Barry.