Avengers: Plothole wars (Warning Spoilers)

[Midvillian1322]

But I also think the same thing about underrated.

See, I have no problem people calling something bad that is generally considered good and vice versa. The problem I have is with the words overrated and underrated. I don't think they have any meaning to something like movies and TV shows, those things are already subjective. What measure are you using to call it overrated/underrated?

I dont have a problem with it when presented as an opinion and not a fact. It's just a way of saying you like something more or less then popular opinion. But I get it why not just say that. Underrated or overrated makes it sound like it's measurable with something other then anecdotal evidence. When I use it though I just mean I like it more then most people or vice versa.

[Soubhagya]

(Warning Spoilers)

So, I know most people are raving about the new avengers film, but I gotta say, I was just shaking my head at the continual plotholes. I really wanted to like this movie but it just didn't make any sense. Let me count the ways...

1: Thanos humiliates Hulk.... without any structural damage to the scrapyard vessel they are fighting on? Thanos beating Hulk is fine, but he wasn't even being hit that hard, if he was he'd be flying thru walls of that ship, as Hulk & Thor did in Thor 3. *keep in mind the ship in question was from the same Thor 3 film's sakarr that Thor and Hulk fought on.

2: Iron man, Spider-man, and Dr. strange head to Titan. Tony & Doc are arguing whether they should go home or 'take the fight to Thanos'.... Why not do both? Why couldn't Strange make a portal once they got to Titan and summon all the avengers.... or atleast the ones they could find on short notice.

3: Iron man, Dr. Stange, Spider-man, and the GotG decide to take Thanos by 'surprise.'... And it's actually working very well! It kinda takes away from the idea of what a massive threat this guy is supposed to be for me, to be honest how easily their plan seemed to work. But then, they decide to stand by let Star Lord beat on Thanos while he's comatose. Not a hit-one 'oops' we better restrain him, no. They let Quill just pound him repeatedly, thereby accidently hitting Mantis' hand, breaking the connection holding Thanos at bay. At no point does Dr. Strange use the time gem that could fix all of this instantly, either.... And we know the rest.

4: Scarlet Witch destroys the mind gem to prevent Thanos from gaining all the stones, killing Vision in the process. But the infinity stones are the aspects of the universe, so if she did this, then everyone's minds, everywhere, would have also been destroyed instantaneously, no?

5: (and this one's admittedly personal taste) Thanos sheds his awesome, golden cosmic armor instead wearing.... a a blue muscle shirt? Now, I know the idea was that he no longer needed that bulky armor, but lets be honest, it was way more impressive/cool/interesting wearing his classic look, than just looking like a generic muscular, bald guy.

Anyways, those are the things that come to mind, but yea, I was not impressed by the movie's plotholes and poor decisions. That said, yes, it is entertaining, with a lot of humor (admittedly I loved the Star Lord & Thor interactions). But the movie was far from perfect, and imo being vastly overrated. Just my two cents.

Don't get discouraged. Speaking against popular films will get passionate responses. I loved the movie. I wish you would have enjoyed it like me.

Now looking at the holes one by one.

1. Physics in superhero films has always been sketchy. One of the things in films which i find hard to believe or perhaps don't understand is people sent flying by punches. If a punch has enough force to send you flying, isn't it powerful enough to break your bones or do serious damage at the point of impact? In superhero films i put that to invulnerability. Hulk's body is simply invulnerable to powerful forces like explosions or Thor's thunderous punches. I saw it like this. Thanos was fighting in an entirely different level when it comes to strength and skill. In front of Thanos' punches, Hulk's body behaved as a normal person's body would on being punched during boxing.

2. I am not sure that Doctor Strange can do the portal stuff across millions or billions of miles in space. Had it been shown before it would have been a plot hole.

3. I don't remember the scene exactly. How many people were engaged in subduing Thanos and pulling out his gauntlet? Was someone talking with Peter directly to calm him? How many attacks did Peter land when Thanos was subdued?

4. It has not been established in the films that the stones have some kind of effect on the corresponding elements in the universe. They affect those things locally. But they don't do something like control those elements across the cosmos.

5. This one is of course not a plot hole. This one is your personal taste. Personally, i loved Thanos without the armor. Armored look was very good. But the helmet hid his face a bit. And dude's Thanos! He needs no armor against the puny Avengers!

[Midvillian1322]

Don't get discouraged. Speaking against popular films will get passionate responses. I loved the movie. I wish you would have enjoyed it like me.

Now looking at the holes one by one.

1. Physics in superhero films have always been sketchy. One of the things in films which i find hard to believe or perhaps don't understand is people sent flying by punches. If a punch has enough force to send you flying, isn't it powerful enough to break your bones or do serious damage at the point of impact? In superhero films i put that to invulnerability. Hulk's body is simply invulnerable to powerful forces like explosions or Thor's thunderous punches. I saw it like this. Thanos was fighting in an entirely different level when it comes to strength and skill. In front of Thanos' punches, Hulk's body behaved as a normal person's body would on being punched during boxing.

2. I am not sure that Doctor Strange can do the portal stuff across millions or billions of miles in space. Had it been shown before it would have been a plot hole.

3. I don't remember the scene exactly. How many people were engaged in subduing Thanos and pulling out his gauntlet? Was someone talking with Peter directly to calm him? How many attacks did Peter land when Thanos was subdued?

4. It has not been established in the films that the stones has some kind of effect on the corresponding elements in the universe. They affect those things locally. But they don't do something like control those elements across the cosmos.

5. This one is of course not a plot hole. This one is your personal taste. Personally, i loved Thanos without the armor. Armored look was very good. But the helmet hid his face a bit. And dude's Thanos! He needs no armor against the puny Avengers!

There was 6 people attacking Thanos and it was all a distraction to get Mantis on his head to put him to sleep. It was a solid plan and to that point Thanos was pulling his punches you can tell he had some respect for them with his exchange with Tony. Loki is the only person Thanos wanted to kill in this movie imo. Everything else he wanted to be fair chance.

[Soubhagya]

But I also think the same thing about underrated.

See, I have no problem people calling something bad that is generally considered good and vice versa. The problem I have is with the words overrated and underrated. I don't think they have any meaning to something like movies and TV shows, those things are already subjective. What measure are you using to call it overrated/underrated?

Its true. You can't measure art. That is subjective.

Its easy to find what the people's opinion is. There's critical reception which is measured by metrics like Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic. Audience opinion can be measured by Cinemascore. Some people give value to online audience metrics like IMDB, Rotten Tomatoes audience score even if they are really inaccurate. Social media, online conversations, internet websites, blogs, etc. Internet is full of people's opinions. By this one gets some kind of 'idea' what kind of praise a film is getting or not getting.

And then one compares one's opinion to that idea. I think these words are often taken for granted. So, your thinking is not wrong.

I think people do this when they say its not bad. Notice that seaturkey did not say IW was bad. It was entertaining.

[Soubhagya]

There was 6 people attacking Thanos and it was all a distraction to get Mantis on his head to put him to sleep. It was a solid plan and to that point Thanos was pulling his punches you can tell he had some respect for them with his exchange with Tony. Loki is the only person Thanos wanted to kill in this movie imo. Everything else he wanted to be fair chance.

So, i think you mean to say that others did not have a chance to stop Peter. I remember Mantis was at the head. Spider-man was pulling at the gauntlet for sure. What were others doing? Was somebody else standing with Peter? I thought he was alone in front of Thanos. The question actually is: Was it somehow possible to stop Starlord?

[DebkoX]

Structural damage kind of goes out of the window when you're dealing with magical stones aha.

[hulahulk]

Both Spidey and Tony were trying to remove the gauntlet. I think Strange used the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak to hold Thanos' other arm....maybe? I know Drax was there somewhere.

[Divine Spark]

Not really a plot hole. But with a reality wiping device he could have solved overpopulation in many ways that didn’t involve killing.

[Soubhagya]

Both Spidey and Tony were trying to remove the gauntlet. I think Strange used the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak to hold Thanos' other arm....maybe? I know Drax was there somewhere.

I think one hand of Thanos was held either by the magic of Dr. Strange or the 'gravity device' of Peter. I seem to remember that both legs were also held. One by Drax and other by Strange or Peter. I am not exactly sure.

Its strange that its the best fight scene in the film and i am unable to remember it. I brought it up because it would make it clear that this was no plot hole. Everyone was busy. Peter did not hit Thanos many times. I think he hit about two or three times. If anyone tried to stop him it would have failed too. This (Peter's hits freeing Thanos) happened much too quickly for anyone to step in. No one could have expected that Peter would loose his cool, start hitting Thanos and it would result in him being free.

In front of all this, it ceases to be a plot hole. At worst, the characters made errors in judgement/taking decisions in the heat of the battle. Its easy to pick that apart in a theater or online. But to actually fight Thanos is a different thing.

Not really a plot hole. But with a reality wiping device he could have solved overpopulation in many ways that didn’t involve killing.

I have heard about this online. He could have doubled the resources in the universe instead of killing off half of the population. I don't have a solid answer. (Even killing off half of the people can't solve problems. Its not that resources are scarce. They are ample. Its the fact that resources are unevenly distributed. Among the surviving half the fight would continue. Accumulation of resources by one group of people at the cost of others, is the problem. But we are not discussing real world affairs here). Some people said he's the mad Titan. Nothing makes sense in how he is thinking. I say he had no experience. If somehow the thought came to his mind, he had not experience of that. But he had experience that killing off half of the population actually worked. He had been doing this for a long time with successful results. The gauntlet was needed to commit genocide in a universal scale. Otherwise, he was doing it planet after planet. He might not have even considered the thought.

[Midvillian1322]

So, i think you mean to say that others did not have a chance to stop Peter. I remember Mantis was at the head. Spider-man was pulling at the gauntlet for sure. What were others doing? Was somebody else standing with Peter? I thought he was alone in front of Thanos. The question actually is: Was it somehow possible to stop Starlord?

I think Iornman let's go to try to calm down Starlord but it's hard to recall. But yea should have Ironman just blasted Quill in the face and knocked him out sure but thays not a plothole.

[Judge Dredd]

What's funnier is feeling the need to post one's own thread on their "revelations", instead of just using the main spoiler thread.

I agree no need for a new topic would have fit fine in the regular thread for Avengers. Also has others have pointed out these are not plot holes, if you had actually plot holes maybe worthy of its own thread. However nitpicking does not need a new thread, but others have raised excellent points explaining the questions they had added.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Not really a plot hole. But with a reality wiping device he could have solved overpopulation in many ways that didn’t involve killing.

That's why Thanos' original motivation in Infinity Gauntlet is much more realistic. He has all the power he could want, he could solve any problem multiple ways, but he's going mad with the power and he's desperate for Death's affection so he does that.

Anyways the real plot hole will come after the second movie when we see about several dozen seperate ways Strange's one in 14 billion possibility could have occured. So stupid.

[Tofali]

Not really a plot hole. But with a reality wiping device he could have solved overpopulation in many ways that didn’t involve killing.

If he didn't use the reality stone to bring back Titan why would he use it to solve the overpopulation problems in the universe?

I feel like every solution would have come to a killing conclusion depending on someone's points of views.

[AJBopp]

Not really a plot hole. But with a reality wiping device he could have solved overpopulation in many ways that didn’t involve killing.

There is orders of magnitude of complexity between doubling the resources of the universe and removing a tiny fraction of the mass of the universe. Just saying.

[Sub-Zero MKA]

I think Iornman let's go to try to calm down Starlord but it's hard to recall. But yea should have Ironman just blasted Quill in the face and knocked him out sure but thays not a plothole.

Tony was definitely holding him back and telling him to calm down, I think.