The brutality of Spider-Man's villains

[Turlast]

I've recently been looking at older stories to gauge how bloodthirsty a lot of the villains can be. Spidey's rogue gallery has always been my favorite set of villains since they were always shown to be quite unique in their ways.

-Some were just criminals that only cared about power and wealth (Shocker, Mysterio, Hobgoblin, Vulture, Electro, etc)
-Some were just criminals that had no direction, but weren't really bad (Sandman)
-Some were psychotic and enjoyed killing to prove a point or for fun (Carnage, Doc Ock, Green Goblin, etc)
-Some only cared about revenge (Venom)
-Some started out seeking revenge only to take it further (Scorpion, Smythe
-Some did it for sport (Kraven)

In Marvel Knights, there was a scene where Electro was so mad about losing $20 million that he blew up all of the cars (that had people in them) that were in the area. This was surprising to me because Electro always seemed like one of those guys who'd never go that far. Well, not literally. There was a story where Electro made Spidey beg for his life or he was going to destroy the closest neighborhoods with his new powers. That seemed to be an ego thing, though.

Vulture is one of the characters that seemed to get darker as the stories continued. Toomes was always a criminal, but Spectacular #186-188 seemed to turn him into a remorseless killer. The only time where he appeared to have remorse was when Nathan died because of his antics, since it was an accident. He totally accepted his responsibility in the matter and asked for May's forgiveness, but his brutality remained. He even goes straight to the Daily Bugle and threatens to kill Jameson if he doesn't change the headline to the paper. Most of this seemed to build-up from his various defeats at the hands of Spidey over the yrs.

This page does a great job in in highlighting Vulture's cold-blooded nature and the tragic circumstances surrounding him:



You can't help but feel sorry for him when reading that. This is easily the best Vulture story imo.

Doc Ock is another one of those who've hatched countless plans to wipe out NYC to prove his superiority or just to kill Spidey. He was fine with poisoning the water supply in NYC, destroying the city with the neuron bomb during the Owl Gang War, releasing a germ to kill Spidey because he was too traumatized by him, the stuff he did with the electronics in #600, and the Ends of the Earth.

So when it comes to brutal nature of Spidey's villains, which ones stand out to you the most?

[phantom1592]

I've recently been looking at older stories to gauge how bloodthirsty a lot of the villains can be. Spidey's rogue gallery has always been my favorite set of villains since they were always shown to be quite unique in their ways.

-Some were just criminals that only cared about power and wealth (Shocker, Mysterio, Hobgoblin, Vulture, Electro, etc)
-Some were just criminals that had no direction, but weren't really bad (Sandman)
-Some were psychotic and enjoyed killing to prove a point or for fun (Carnage, Doc Ock, Green Goblin, etc)
-Some only cared about revenge (Venom)
-Some started out seeking revenge only to take it further (Scorpion, Smythe
-Some did it for sport (Kraven)

In Marvel Knights, there was a scene where Electro was so mad about losing $20 million that he blew up all of the cars (that had people in them) that were in the area. This was surprising to me because Electro always seemed like one of those guys who'd never go that far. Well, not literally. There was a story where Electro made Spidey beg for his life or he was going to destroy the closest neighborhoods with his new powers. That seemed to be an ego thing, though.

Vulture is one of the characters that seemed to get darker as the stories continued. Toomes was always a criminal, but Spectacular #186-188 seemed to turn him into a remorseless killer. The only time where he appeared to have remorse was when Nathan died because of his antics, since it was an accident. He totally accepted his responsibility in the matter and asked for May's forgiveness, but his brutality remained. He even goes straight to the Daily Bugle and threatens to kill Jameson if he doesn't change the headline to the paper. Most of this seemed to build-up from his various defeats at the hands of Spidey over the yrs.

This page does a great job in in highlighting Vulture's cold-blooded nature and the tragic circumstances surrounding him:



You can't help but feel sorry for him when reading that. This is easily the best Vulture story imo.

Doc Ock is another one of those who've hatched countless plans to wipe out NYC to prove his superiority or just to kill Spidey. He was fine with poisoning the water supply in NYC, destroying the city with the neuron bomb during the Owl Gang War, releasing a germ to kill Spidey because he was too traumatized by him, the stuff he did with the electronics in #600, and the Ends of the Earth.

So when it comes to brutal nature of Spidey's villains, which ones stand out to you the most?

Carnage was always the gold standard of brutality. He took everyone else's violence and cranked it up a LOT... Some may kill for revenge... some may kill to further their goals... Carnage may kill for the joy of bathing in fresh blood... or because he's bored.

But I really don't consider him a 'classic' Spidey Villain. He's more of the beginning of the 'new breed' of comic maniacs.

[Turlast]

Yeah, Carnage is the definition of brutality.

You know, seeing Spencer's Smythe's transition from a regular scientist into a bloodlusted maniac is pretty significant. He basically admitted that JJJ drove him mad with the task of defeating Spidey--which eventually developed into an insane obsession with wanting Spidey dead because of the countless losses he's experienced because of him. Since this eventually lead to him contracting radioactive poison, he was ready to end them both. Spidey and JJJ can have that effect on people.

He's another one you kinda feel sorry for.

[ChrisIII]

I think the Dematteis Spectacular run was pretty dark in general. Some of Sal Buscema's finest storytelling in that too.

[Celgress]

Carnage was always the gold standard of brutality. He took everyone else's violence and cranked it up a LOT... Some may kill for revenge... some may kill to further their goals... Carnage may kill for the joy of bathing in fresh blood... or because he's bored.

But I really don't consider him a 'classic' Spidey Villain. He's more of the beginning of the 'new breed' of comic maniacs.

Damn, I miss Carnage. He is my second favorite comic book psychopath, after Joker of course. I sure hope Red Goblin does not stick around longterm.

[Huntsman Spider]

Damn, I miss Carnage. He is my second favorite comic book psychopath, after Joker of course. I sure hope Red Goblin does not stick around longterm.

If you want more Kasady, you should read Venomized. At least you'll get to see what becomes of him there, though I'll warn you right now, it might not be your cup of tea.

[Celgress]

If you want more Kasady, you should read Venomized. At least you'll get to see what becomes of him there, though I'll warn you right now, it might not be your cup of tea.

Doesn't he become an anti-hero of some sort?

In general terms, Kasady without the Carnage Symbiote is about as appealing to me as was Symbiote free Eddie before then again just after Anti-Venom and Flash since parting ways with the Venom Symbiote. In other words not at all.

[phantom1592]

Doesn't he become an anti-hero of some sort?

In general terms, Kasady without the Carnage Symbiote is about as appealing to me as was Symbiote free Eddie before then again just after Anti-Venom and Flash since parting ways with the Venom Symbiote. In other words not at all.

That idea horrifies me. Kasady has long been established as a murdering psychopath and serving a life term in prison LONG before ever getting a Symbiote. Eddie makes a lousy 'anti-hero' too... but Kasady is an insult to the very character.

[TheCape]

I've recently been looking at older stories to gauge how bloodthirsty a lot of the villains can be. Spidey's rogue gallery has always been my favorite set of villains since they were always shown to be quite unique in their ways.

-Some were just criminals that only cared about power and wealth (Shocker, Mysterio, Hobgoblin, Vulture, Electro, etc)
-Some were just criminals that had no direction, but weren't really bad (Sandman)
-Some were psychotic and enjoyed killing to prove a point or for fun (Carnage, Doc Ock, Green Goblin, etc)
-Some only cared about revenge (Venom)
-Some started out seeking revenge only to take it further (Scorpion, Smythe
-Some did it for sport (Kraven)

In Marvel Knights, there was a scene where Electro was so mad about losing $20 million that he blew up all of the cars (that had people in them) that were in the area. This was surprising to me because Electro always seemed like one of those guys who'd never go that far. Well, not literally. There was a story where Electro made Spidey beg for his life or he was going to destroy the closest neighborhoods with his new powers. That seemed to be an ego thing, though.

Vulture is one of the characters that seemed to get darker as the stories continued. Toomes was always a criminal, but Spectacular #186-188 seemed to turn him into a remorseless killer. The only time where he appeared to have remorse was when Nathan died because of his antics, since it was an accident. He totally accepted his responsibility in the matter and asked for May's forgiveness, but his brutality remained. He even goes straight to the Daily Bugle and threatens to kill Jameson if he doesn't change the headline to the paper. Most of this seemed to build-up from his various defeats at the hands of Spidey over the yrs.

This page does a great job in in highlighting Vulture's cold-blooded nature and the tragic circumstances surrounding him:



You can't help but feel sorry for him when reading that. This is easily the best Vulture story imo.

Doc Ock is another one of those who've hatched countless plans to wipe out NYC to prove his superiority or just to kill Spidey. He was fine with poisoning the water supply in NYC, destroying the city with the neuron bomb during the Owl Gang War, releasing a germ to kill Spidey because he was too traumatized by him, the stuff he did with the electronics in #600, and the Ends of the Earth.

So when it comes to brutal nature of Spidey's villains, which ones stand out to you the most?

Norman Osborn, he is among the most sadistic characthers in Spider-Man comics, his hate toward Peter and the things that had led him to do are just horrible, among his many transgressions, he killed Gwem Stacy and probably Mayday Parker at the end of the Clone Saga (i know that the baby isn't in continuity anymore.and we would never see her again, but still counts) all to avenge the death of the son that he loved and despised at the same time.

[Michael Watkins]

Norman gave someone AIDS or an AIDS-like disease to prove a point.

[Huntsman Spider]

Norman gave someone AIDS or an AIDS-like disease to prove a point.

Otto Octavius's first love, Mary-Alice Anders. Backstory provided in Superior Spider-Man Team-Up #11-12, against the backdrop of the Goblin Nation arc that served as the finale of Superior Spider-Man. The point Norman was trying to prove was that guys like him and Otto were better off without being distracted by love, something Otto obviously disagreed with because that was his first love Norman infected.

[Celgress]

Otto Octavius's first love, Mary-Alice Anders. Backstory provided in Superior Spider-Man Team-Up #11-12, against the backdrop of the Goblin Nation arc that served as the finale of Superior Spider-Man. The point Norman was trying to prove was that guys like him and Otto were better off without being distracted by love, something Otto obviously disagreed with because that was his first love Norman infected.

Norman, alongside the Joker and Classic Carnage, I think is a villain that cannot be redeemed and is an unending source of threat to others. I know Peter has a no kill rule but I think if he made Norman an exception I'd be okay with that. The guy is simply vile on many different levels.

[Mister Mets]

Norman Osborn and Carnage are in a special class here. There are some other nasty guys, especially Kingpin and the Vulture.

Spider-Man's villains aren't as brutal as others which is probably a good thing, because it gets dark in a series where a hero keeps failing to save the victims of a bad guy (to give an example of a common Batman story.)

[The Overlord]

I've recently been looking at older stories to gauge how bloodthirsty a lot of the villains can be. Spidey's rogue gallery has always been my favorite set of villains since they were always shown to be quite unique in their ways.

-Some were just criminals that only cared about power and wealth (Shocker, Mysterio, Hobgoblin, Vulture, Electro, etc)
-Some were just criminals that had no direction, but weren't really bad (Sandman)
-Some were psychotic and enjoyed killing to prove a point or for fun (Carnage, Doc Ock, Green Goblin, etc)
-Some only cared about revenge (Venom)
-Some started out seeking revenge only to take it further (Scorpion, Smythe
-Some did it for sport (Kraven)

In Marvel Knights, there was a scene where Electro was so mad about losing $20 million that he blew up all of the cars (that had people in them) that were in the area. This was surprising to me because Electro always seemed like one of those guys who'd never go that far. Well, not literally. There was a story where Electro made Spidey beg for his life or he was going to destroy the closest neighborhoods with his new powers. That seemed to be an ego thing, though.

Vulture is one of the characters that seemed to get darker as the stories continued. Toomes was always a criminal, but Spectacular #186-188 seemed to turn him into a remorseless killer. The only time where he appeared to have remorse was when Nathan died because of his antics, since it was an accident. He totally accepted his responsibility in the matter and asked for May's forgiveness, but his brutality remained. He even goes straight to the Daily Bugle and threatens to kill Jameson if he doesn't change the headline to the paper. Most of this seemed to build-up from his various defeats at the hands of Spidey over the yrs.

This page does a great job in in highlighting Vulture's cold-blooded nature and the tragic circumstances surrounding him:



You can't help but feel sorry for him when reading that. This is easily the best Vulture story imo.

Doc Ock is another one of those who've hatched countless plans to wipe out NYC to prove his superiority or just to kill Spidey. He was fine with poisoning the water supply in NYC, destroying the city with the neuron bomb during the Owl Gang War, releasing a germ to kill Spidey because he was too traumatized by him, the stuff he did with the electronics in #600, and the Ends of the Earth.

So when it comes to brutal nature of Spidey's villains, which ones stand out to you the most?

I am going to bring up two villains who acted brutal, with different results.

In the Guardian Devil story from Daredevil, Mysterio was dying and wanted to become famous, so he committed a very brutal scheme where his goons wiped out a maternity ward, made Daredevil think another baby was the anti Christ in order to get him to kill the baby, made Karen Page think she had AIDs, sent Bullseye to church were he went a killing spree (killing Page in the process) and then started offing his own goons, all just to drive Daredevil insane in a bid for fame.

That may be too dark for a Spidey comic (Daredevil stories tended to be darker) but this not an isolated incident. There was an issue of Avengers Academy where Mysterio ordered Rhino to kill a bunch of teen heroes, which Rhino refused to do.

Mysterio is a vain, manipulative, psychopath with a talent for cruel mind games, he should no problem crossing any line to satisfy his ego and desire for fame.

Shocker once tried to kill 12 people because a psychopathic mob boss paid him to and that did not work for me. If Shocker is supposed to be more rational then other villains, he should be more noble, going out of his way not to kill innocent people, he should only kill in survival situations or if someone really does him wrong.

So I say make Mysterio more cruel and make Shocker more noble.

[Turlast]

I actually had no idea Mysterio was even capable of such a thing.

Now you got me wanting to read Guardian Devil.