The "retroactively making old DC characters gay/bi/biracial" thread

[MajorHoy]

from Smash Comics #25 (Quality Comics)

Was this the original intended Dannette Firebrand? I'm curious now why she wasn't used!

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Morrison's female Shining Knight was a nice bit of additive retconning that kept the 1940s Shining Knight's continuity intact, while also allowing Morrison to introduce a far cooler and wilder Proto-Camelot from 10 thousand years ago that was havested by the Sheeda.

However, when the New 52 rolled around, they straight up replaced the 1940s Shining Knight with Morrison's Shining Knight within the traditional Camelot circa 500AD. The Morrison Seven Soldiers is set to return in Sideways this August, but I doubt we'll get any further clarification about the Golden Age team until Doomsday Clock is finished spinning its wheels for another year and a half

Morrison's Klarion The Witch Boy, however, was a straight up reboot of both Kirby's original character and all post-Kirby appearances.

[superduperman]

To me this seems like one of the best arguments there is for a DC Ultimates line. I will say this, though. Wonder Woman seems like a natural fit for this sort of thing. She already comes from an island of women. And she's one of the original trinity so it's not like there aren't any big names that are LGBT. I think the question is, does it really fit the character to make them gay? In WW's case, the answer is yes. With Alan Scott, all they were doing was replacing one gay character with another. He already had a gay son. It just seemed like an unnecessary trade off. If they are going to do it, it makes sense to take a character who had no history of a relationship in their original run. Which might be hard to find since almost every character had their own version of Lois Lane. Did Johnny Thunder have a girlfriend?

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Did Johnny Thunder have a girlfriend?

I don't remember Johnny having any kind of romantic interest, actually. His shtick was generally being the naive but good-hearted nitwit who wielded unlimited power, but was too simple-minded to use it effectively. I don't know if such a buffoonish character would necessarily be what the LGBQ community is asking for, though

The idea of a Golden Age hero being in the closet for years is a potentially interesting one, but I'm not sure if a character as comedic as Johnny is the right fit for that kind of story, although I'm sure a good creator could certainly make it work. Perhaps the juxtaposition of the comedy and tragedy could be effective, which seems to be the angle Geoff Johns took the character by first giving him Asperger Syndrome in JSA (culminating in him being merged with his genie as Johnny Thunderbolt) and his most recent depiction as the sad old man responsible for the JSA's disappearance in Doomsday Clock.

Johnny also doesn't strike me as a character smart enough to be able to convincingly hide a double life as a closeted bi or gay man without accidentally spilling the beans every other sentence.

[legion_quest]

Honestly it doesn't really seem like LGBT character make much money. DCs biggest success was sofar Batwoman and her book is about to get cancelled because of low sales.

If you have an established character come out that might create some 'heat' for an issues or two but seems to be about it.

Any money is better than no money. If making a character LGBT spikes sales for even just 6 issues, it's 6 issues of money you didnt have before

[Aahz]

Any money is better than no money. If making a character LGBT spikes sales for even just 6 issues, it's 6 issues of money you didnt have before

It is probably more 1 or 2 issue spike. And if it causes previous fans to drop the book it is on the long run probably not worth it.

[andersonh1]

I don't remember Johnny having any kind of romantic interest, actually.

He did have one, as I recall, a rather difficult girlfriend named Daisy Darling. And of course he fell for Black Canary during the last few installments of his series before she took over entirely.

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He did have one, as I recall, a rather difficult girlfriend named Daisy Darling. And of course he fell for Black Canary during the last few installments of his series before she took over entirely.

That sound you hear is the cries of a million gay Johnny Thunder fans as the possibility of superhero comic's original idiot being a closeted gay man is cruelly snatched away from them

[CaptCleghorn]

That sound you hear is the cries of a million gay Johnny Thunder fans as the possibility of superhero comic's original idiot being a closeted gay man is cruelly snatched away from them

Johnny's feelings towards Dinah do make him a less appropriate closeted gay man. But the teasing he did get from JSA members through their early days might be better explained by him being gay rather than "simple".

Obviously this would be a big step, even for a relatively minor character. I may very well be that person who calls for someone and then is never happy with the choice. That's OK, though. JSA fans have an overwhelming desire to see them back and also deal with differences in how or who. A talk about if a certain character is a good fit to be closeted LGBTQ is good.

[legion_quest]

It is probably more 1 or 2 issue spike. And if it causes previous fans to drop the book it is on the long run probably not worth it.

Not if there was no book previously to drop.

Look at Iceman at Marvel, never had a solo title, came out, got a 12 issue series. Sure it didnt last, but it was 12 issues of money Marvel didnt have before.

Same applies if DC do something similar. Old school fans might not like it, but if the choice is no book and no money or change character, have a book and have money - then that is why a publisher is gonna try it

[MajorHoy]

That sound you hear is the cries of a million gay Johnny Thunder fans as the possibility of superhero comic's original idiot being a closeted gay man is cruelly snatched away from them

You think even a million people have a clue as to who "Johnny Thunder" is?
I don't know if you'd get that many adding up the fans of Golden Age Johnny and Western Johnny Thunder!

[Jim Kelly]

I have a theory that Johnny Thunder created the Multiverse. We see him at the beginning of ALL-STAR COMICS No. 3, looking at all the comics and wishing he could go to the meeting of the JSA. So the Thunderbolt takes him there. But suppose Johnny was on our Earth looking at the comics and the JSA are just a fiction. But to answer his wish, the Thunderbolt literally makes that world and Johnny now lives in it. And all the rest of the DC imaginary worlds become real as an extension of Johnny’s wish.

[CaptCleghorn]

You think even a million people have a clue as to who "Johnny Thunder" is?
I don't know if you'd get that many adding up the fans of Golden Age Johnny and Western Johnny Thunder!

I suspect there was a degree of exaggeration going on there.

[MajorHoy]

I suspect there was a degree of exaggeration going on there.

Only a degree?

[Aahz]

Look at Iceman at Marvel, never had a solo title, came out, got a 12 issue series. Sure it didnt last, but it was 12 issues of money Marvel didnt have before.

Same applies if DC do something similar. Old school fans might not like it, but if the choice is no book and no money or change character, have a book and have money - then that is why a publisher is gonna try it

That series was deep in the cancellation range by issue#3. I doubt that it would have sold much worse if they didn't made him gay.

And you don't have to make a character gay to give him a miniseries, DC has is frequently publishing a few miniseries staring smaller characters and they usually have similar sales numbers.