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  1. #61
    Incredible Member SuperCrab's Avatar
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    On the reboot thing in general, even though Marvel technically only has one continuity all the way back, there are sort of reboot-like retroactive changes to continuity and to the status quos very frequently. I think both companies have found that these result in sales jumps that then subside, and are into a cycle where they do them every so often to get the next bump until the steam goes out of it, and then do it again.

    On the Marvel side, as an example, they are constantly changing the names of the X-Men books and which mutants are in the teams that make them up. People die and come back constantly. There are a ton of variant versions of each character. At one point, the main Wolverine was dead, but there was his female clone taking the Wolverine mantle, an older version of himself from an alternate future on various teams, and the son of a Wolverine from a different alternate universe all running around with claws- and I think I'm missing a few. Cyclops was dead, but there was a 16 year old version of himself brought forward in time who they were unable to return, plus a daughter from an alternate future that he'd had with Jean Grey (A different alternate future than the one Old Man Logan was from, even though they were at one point on the same X-team!).

    There was one funny moment where Rachel Summers-Grey, who appears to be in her 30s, calls teenage Scott Summers (Cyclops) "Dad" and he says something like "Don't call me that! You're creeping me out. You're older than I am.". I also remember reading one where Old Man Logan is sitting on some bleachers wanting a baseball game with Jimmy Hudson, the son of the Wolverine of the Ultimate universe and they have a brief exchange where they recognize that they are kind of is some weird way father and son, but not really, and both grunt "Huh." or something and resume their day.

    People have a love for these iconic characters and stuff, but they tend to lose interest if things aren't shaken up once in a while. The shakeup brings back readers who left for one reason or another and prompts them to give things a fresh look. Maybe it keeps people engaged who drifted off a reboot or two back by bringing back something or someone they liked from back in the day. Then the next reboot brings back what someone else liked that was absent from the previous reboot. I think what they want to prevent is where it's been like 10 years and people are so far removed from fandom that they don't even hear about changes and can't be reeled back in regardless of what is done. They might figure people will stick around comics in general and complain for 3-4 years reading other books and taking a look in on the stuff they abandoned once in a while, but not for 10 or 20 years. So they reboot every few years.

  2. #62
    Fantastic Member Naruto1996's Avatar
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    while Conner Kent returns to continuity I'm fine with this

    I hope that Superman continues to wear the classic suit of the red trunks for this reboot

  3. #63
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    What you're describing sounds more organic, even as timey-whimey crazy as all that sounds. People die and then come back to life, etc, that's just comics. But changing universes wholesale is the difference.

    The way i see it.. even in a non-rebooting universe, there can be stories that are accessible to all readers for the most part, but that also incorporate some of the history that's happened (to a degree, as done with Silver/Bronze Ages). I think that should be fine, really. Keep that mentality for one universe, and have another that changes when they can't pull that stray hair out of their @$$ anymore. lol
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  4. #64
    Astonishing Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The World View Post
    Enough with the crisis events already.
    Indeed, at this point, the constant continuity resets of DC have become a meme. We don't need another one again so soon. C'mon those in the DC Office just pick a headcanon and stick with it for more than a couple of years. Is that really too much to ask for?
    Last edited by Celgress; 05-11-2018 at 11:56 AM.
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  5. #65
    Incredible Member SuperCrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    and even if they brought New52 back wholesale.... can you trust that it'd stay? Imagining myself as a New52 fan, I wouldn't trust DC with a 10-foot pole. I'd just be waiting for them to get cold feet again and screw with things, and that's not a merry-go-round I'd have any interest in.
    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    Speaking as a New 52 fan I can tell you you are 100% right. I don't trust them to bring him back properly. At this point, they could do a Superman that gives me everything I want and I still wouldn't trust them. I think that's the real problem. What is the point anymore? In five years he'll be someone different anyway.
    I guess the point there would be 5 more years of good New52 Superman comics. Everything changes, but we could enjoy our Superman for 5 years (or whatever) and add to our physical or digital back catalog for later re-reading during the lean years where things change again.

    I guess I kind of think of it this way. Imagine your favorite defunct rock band gets back together and is going to spend the next 5 years touring and producing 2-3 new albums. You kind of know that they are going to have to either change lineups drastically or breakup eventually, because they're all pretty old and don't like each other and will inevitably run into health issues, retirements, people quitting because they can't deal with other people, etc.. So, it's going to change, but at least you get the 2-3 more new albums out of it, right?

    Plus, there is the possibility that the second age of the New52 is rebooted into something that's better than Rebirth, for those of us who didn't like Rebirth. Potentially we get our (New52) Superman back for a few years, followed by an interesting Superman who we don't like *as* much, but who we like better than the current one. That's still a good deal, when the alternative is them continuing with the one we don't like at all.

    Maybe the New52 Superman (or a similar Superman) even comes back a third time on the next reboot after the one eliminating or changing his hypothetical second incarnation.

    A cycle of reboots doesn't necessarily have to be all bad.

    Actually, comics have always had to at least have this sort of soft reboot of somehow characters are born in later years and don't age to the point of death. Otherwise, all the human characters like Batman, Lois Lane, etc. would have died of old age a long time ago. I think they sometimes refer to this as a 15 year sliding timeline or whatever.

    So, there's always going to be continuity changes of some sort, even if it's just sort of retroactively the (hypothetical) story about the evil disco guy from 1977 is now an evil clubber from 2007, and instead of calling in the story to the Daily Planet via a pay phone, Lois used her cell phone to tweet it or whatever. It's really just a question of how much, how often, and in what ways.

  6. #66
    Astonishing Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBatmanFan05 View Post
    I have to agree with these marriages being undone. Batman (main continuity, present Batman) should never marry especially.

    Spidey's marriage is maybe the only one I support and I still have complicated conflicting thoughts about that.
    Funny I'm actually more supportive of Superman's Marriage than I am of Spidey's. Lois Lane has been presented as the definitive love interest for Sups for so long (with only one notable exception, other than the brief failed triangle with Lana), decades in fact, that I feel them being hitched is the natural evolution of the character. On the other hand, Mary Jane was simply the last girl standing in a love triangle after her competition was killed off for shock value (although it evolved into something deeper over time). Then there is the issue of Black Cat who many find a more interesting option for a potential Spider-Man mate than Mary Jane for a number of reasons, but I digress. To each his own I guess.
    Last edited by Celgress; 05-11-2018 at 12:08 PM.
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  7. #67
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Weird, I'm the opposite. I came to like Peter and M.J. more than Lois and Clark. The former never seemed to suffer from being portrayed like something out of Ozzie and Harriet, at the very least.
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  8. #68
    Incredible Member RepHope's Avatar
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    Can’t they just kill off Lois if they want him to date others so badly? I like Jon, he fulfills the role Jimmy used to, the wide eyed idealistic kid who follows Supes on his adventures. Lou’s on the other hand is just a plot device who dies so Supes can turn evil because he’s not as perfect as the Almighty Batgod. Having her die and Clark NOT turn evil would be a nice rejection of the Injustice and DCEU Supermen who are portrayed as being “fair weather heroes” and need Lois to keep them from going insane.

    Either that or start up a new “Ultimate Universe”. They’ve still got a couple blank Earths from Multiversity. Replace JMS on Earth One Supes since he’s retired, that Clark is very similar to the New 52 version. But rebooting again? That’s idiotic. I think this is bull though. Snyder has been talking about his JL run, he’s got a two year plan. Johns is working on the three Jokers with Fabok. Dido’s New Age of Heroes was a flop (unfortunately). Unless this is a WB mandate I really doubt anyone is pushing for a full on reboot AGAIN.
    Last edited by RepHope; 05-11-2018 at 03:24 PM.

  9. #69
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    There's likely something to it. Even if its just rough, scattershot rumblings at this stage. But there's something there. Whatever some people's problem are with BC, they don't just make this stuff up from the clear blue sky. If something is pure unadultered speculation born from them, and a headline is mostly click-bait, that'll come across in the article. When they claim to have sources though, there's something to it. That's been my experience.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

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  10. #70
    Notorious M.O.S. Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Weird, I'm the opposite. I came to like Peter and M.J. more than Lois and Clark. The former never seemed to suffer from being portrayed like something out of Ozzie and Harriet, at the very least.
    The grass is always greener. Married Lois and Clark never had to endure what Peter and MJ did from 1995-2007. The "marital problems" subsection of her wiki is an understatement. When I started reading, it was just before Sins Past and MJ had gone to California to get away from him while he went to hang out with MTV for Spring Break.

  11. #71
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperCrab View Post
    I guess the point there would be 5 more years of good New52 Superman comics. Everything changes, but we could enjoy our Superman for 5 years (or whatever) and add to our physical or digital back catalog for later re-reading during the lean years where things change again.

    I guess I kind of think of it this way. Imagine your favorite defunct rock band gets back together and is going to spend the next 5 years touring and producing 2-3 new albums. You kind of know that they are going to have to either change lineups drastically or breakup eventually, because they're all pretty old and don't like each other and will inevitably run into health issues, retirements, people quitting because they can't deal with other people, etc.. So, it's going to change, but at least you get the 2-3 more new albums out of it, right?
    Well... you *hope* you get 5 years. Assuming this supposed reboot happens this year, it'll have been 2 years since the last one. If that keeps up, it'll reboot every 2 weeks, lol

    But don't forget... I've already been in this situation. I didn't buy Convergence because I didn't trust the company not to $#$* with "my" Superman and I stayed away. It wasn't until they were serious about bringing him into current continuity with "Lois & Clark" that I started buying. If they bring back New52 for two years and then do the reversal again? I'd stay out. That's the closest thing to what would be happening. In your scenario, you'd have to add that even though you love that they're back together, they have a manager who sucks at his job but they still somehow listen to him.

    Plus, there is the possibility that the second age of the New52 is rebooted into something that's better than Rebirth, for those of us who didn't like Rebirth. Potentially we get our (New52) Superman back for a few years, followed by an interesting Superman who we don't like *as* much, but who we like better than the current one. That's still a good deal, when the alternative is them continuing with the one we don't like at all.
    That's a pretty rosy outlook. I wouldn't trust that they'll stick the landing they've fumbled repeatedly.

    A cycle of reboots doesn't necessarily have to be all bad.
    Done this soon, this repeatedly? I'd say it is just bad.

    Actually, comics have always had to at least have this sort of soft reboot of somehow characters are born in later years and don't age to the point of death. Otherwise, all the human characters like Batman, Lois Lane, etc. would have died of old age a long time ago. I think they sometimes refer to this as a 15 year sliding timeline or whatever.
    Yeah, I can see that - but comics have always kinda had their own timespace, really. The (U.S) president is generally "generic person we don't see much," etc. I think that's the better option. Will there be a few things that seem wonky? Sure. But some of that has to be glossed over for the sake of the medium. With Reborn, DC tried to put story bits from 40 years into a 15-year timeline, so our years are already not their years.


    At the end of the day, the chances of this actually happening are slim. If true, it'd be the single biggest blunder DC has ever made, and that's saying something. A lot of folks from both camps would be gone, and I can't see new folks sticking around if their guy gets swapped every two years.
    Last edited by JAK; 05-11-2018 at 12:38 PM.
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  12. #72
    Not a Newbie Member JBatmanFan05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    There's likely something to it. Even if its just rough, scattershot rumblings at this stage. But there's something there. Whatever some people's problem are with BC, they don't just make this stuff up from the clear blue sky. If something is pure unadultered speculation born from them, and a headline is mostly click-bait, that'll come across in the article. When they claim to have sources though, there's something to it. That's been my experience.
    I agree. I know people have their gripes with BCool, but the harsh truth is their scoops prove mostly or essentially correct.
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  13. #73
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RepHope View Post
    Can’t they just kill off Lois if they want him to date others so badly? I like Jon, he fulfills the role Jimmy used to, the wide eyed idealistic kid who follows Supes on his adventures. Lou’s on the other hand is just a plot device who dies so Supes can turn evil because he’s not as perfect as the Almoghty Batgod. Having her die and Clark NOT turn evil would be a nice rejection of the Injustice and DCEU Supermen who are portrayed as being “fair weather heroes” and need Lois to keep them from going insane.
    If you want to see fanrage and battles the likes of which would kill a forum in seconds, let them kill Lois in the main continuity. lol Besides, we already have a rejection of Injustice Superman: Kingdom Come. It's on the older side now, but it still shows the difference of what a stronger Superman might do.

    Either that or start up a new “Ultimate Universe”. They’ve still got a couple blank Earths from Multiversity. Replace JMS on Earth One Supes since he’s retired, that Clark is very similar to the New 52 version. But rebooting again? That’s idiotic. I think this is bull though. Snyder has been talking about his JL run, he’s got a two year plan. Johns is working on the three Jokers with Fabok. Dido’s New Age of Heroes was a flop (unfortunately). Unless this is a WB mandate I really doubt anyone is pushing for a full on reboot AGAIN.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    There's likely something to it. Even if its just rough, scattershot rumblings at this stage. But there's something there. Whatever some people's problem are with BC, they don't just make this stuff up from the clear blue sky. If something is pure unadultered speculation born from them, and a headline is mostly click-bait, that'll come across in the article. When they claim to have sources though, there's something to it. That's been my experience.
    If there's anything to this story, I think it's an Ultimate universe-type idea. Which would be amazing, imo. From the beginning of the New52, I'd said that should be DC's Ultimates, not it's main.
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  14. #74
    Fantastic Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Well I quit reading for five years during New 52 so I guess I'm just done with DC now. I can't keep up with this anymore. They keep changing everything I love about these characters, but no matter how much that hack Didio wants to be at Marvel, DC is a different entity. Relationships and legacy were restored with Rebirth to much acclaim and now that's going to reset AGAIN? I got my girlfriend into comics thanks in no small part to Super Sons and the relationship between Green Arrow/Black Canary. She'll probably be out with his too.

    BC usually isn't too far off with you sort of thing... I can only hope there's enough of an overwhelming negative b response that it gets canned along with Didio. I normally don't call for someone's job like that, but enough is enough from him.

  15. #75
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post

    If there's anything to this story, I think it's an Ultimate universe-type idea. Which would be amazing, imo. From the beginning of the New52, I'd said that should be DC's Ultimates, not it's main.
    I would hope so. If that's their idea I think they'd be onto something. Rebooting everything again is meme worthy, though. You can't keep getting characters married then undoing it, then redoing it, then undoing it again. The answer is clearly different versions if there's enough of a differing mindset going on here internally, and I think there is.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 05-11-2018 at 12:59 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

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