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  1. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    If I had my way Superman would be single. Batman, it hasn't been done since Earth-Two so I'm interested in seeing it. But if I had my choice between married heroes with families and lone wolves, I'd go with lone wolves by and large. That's one of the areas where I generally agree with Didio's mindset.
    I'm the exact opposite. Call me a romantic but I'd prefer my heroes to have a spouse/significant other and a family than the constant barrage of LOL RELATIONSHIP DRAMA SWINGING SINGLE BS that seems to be popular among the big 2 comic publishers. I hate it with Spider-Man, I hate it with Batman, I hate it with Iron Man, I hate it with Superman, I hate it with Wonder Woman, I hate it with the Hulk. I just freaking hate it.

  2. #107
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Bet it's just a contingency plan.

    I feel like it's reasonable to assume that there is almost always a reboot sort of deal in the works at any given time in Big Two comics (Marvel and DC). Depending on what the climate is like, they let out that plan in some form be it a whole or partial reboot.

    We also know for a fact that these reboot plans (hard or soft) change regularly. Examples include but are not limited to: Final Crisis, Multiversity (reboot of the 52 worlds), Convergence (reboot to the reboot of the 52 worlds. Totally forgotten about now), and now Metal aka "Dark Crisis" apparently.

    So, hearing that there's a possible reboot coming doesn't really move me too much, but the thumb is always on the button, and sometimes they slightly push it.

    If I had to take a guess what they're thinking of attaching the reboot tag to this time? Tom King's crisis center idea, Sanctuary. He's said that concept will boil down to an event of sorts while also being present throughout the DCU before then. He's also said that the "crisis" part in the crisis center concept is very special to DC for obvious reasons. I'm guessing like Johns, Morrison, and Snyder before him, King is now up to bat with his line wide event that DC will keep the option open to attach a rest to as they've done with all the other names before him.

    I probably wouldn't give it anymore or less weight than that.
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  3. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonofthezombie View Post
    I'm the exact opposite. Call me a romantic but I'd prefer my heroes to have a spouse/significant other and a family than the constant barrage of LOL RELATIONSHIP DRAMA SWINGING SINGLE BS that seems to be popular among the big 2 comic publishers. I hate it with Spider-Man, I hate it with Batman, I hate it with Iron Man, I hate it with Superman, I hate it with Wonder Woman, I hate it with the Hulk. I just freaking hate it.

    Specifically with Superman, I only have so much patience for the "Clark > Lois > Superman" triangle before it just starts getting silly. And specifically with characters like Superman, who by now have a pop-culturally accepted "second-half", keeping that other half around makes any other relationship the hero is in feel shallow.

    It's been what, over a decade since One More Day? And if you ask a random person who Peter Parker's girlfriend is, betting odds are they'll say "Mary Jane". That kind of culturally-ingrained significance just doesn't go away because you want your characters to be single. Same with Superman. They can pair him up in any relationship they want, but as Lois Lane still exists and is alive in that universe, I'm expecting them to get back together in the back of my mind. And heck, even if she is killed or erased from existence, it's comics, so that doesn't rule it out either. :P

  4. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerulean Scarab View Post
    Specifically with Superman, I only have so much patience for the "Clark > Lois > Superman" triangle before it just starts getting silly. And specifically with characters like Superman, who by now have a pop-culturally accepted "second-half", keeping that other half around makes any other relationship the hero is in feel shallow.
    Same here (although personally I don't get why writers think that Superheroes need to keep their identities secret from their loved ones to begin with).

    Quote Originally Posted by Cerulean Scarab View Post
    It's been what, over a decade since One More Day? And if you ask a random person who Peter Parker's girlfriend is, betting odds are they'll say "Mary Jane". That kind of culturally-ingrained significance just doesn't go away because you want your characters to be single. Same with Superman. They can pair him up in any relationship they want, but as Lois Lane still exists and is alive in that universe, I'm expecting them to get back together in the back of my mind. And heck, even if she is killed or erased from existence, it's comics, so that doesn't rule it out either. :P
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  5. #110
    Astonishing Member Dispenser Of Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Bet it's just a contingency plan.

    I feel like it's reasonable to assume that there is almost always a reboot sort of deal in the works at any given time in Big Two comics (Marvel and DC). Depending on what the climate is like, they let out that plan in some form be it a whole or partial reboot.

    We also know for a fact that these reboot plans (hard or soft) change regularly. Examples include but are not limited to: Final Crisis, Multiversity (reboot of the 52 worlds), Convergence (reboot to the reboot of the 52 worlds. Totally forgotten about now), and now Metal aka "Dark Crisis" apparently.

    So, hearing that there's a possible reboot coming doesn't really move me too much, but the thumb is always on the button, and sometimes they slightly push it.

    If I had to take a guess what they're thinking of attaching the reboot tag to this time? Tom King's crisis center idea, Sanctuary. He's said that concept will boil down to an event of sorts while also being present throughout the DCU before then. He's also said that the "crisis" part in the crisis center concept is very special to DC for obvious reasons. I'm guessing like Johns, Morrison, and Snyder before him, King is now up to bat with his line wide event that DC will keep the option open to attach a rest to as they've done with all the other names before him.

    I probably wouldn't give it anymore or less weight than that.
    Pretty much this - I don't think it's unlikely a 'Crisis' could be coming up (though it'd be difficult to make it not seem provincial in the immediate wake of Doomsday Clock), but I'm not sure I can overstate my skepticism that a reboot would actually be in the cards as a result. That's a desperation move, and DC isn't anything remotely like desperate at the moment. This wouldn't be shooting themselves in the foot, this would be walking proudly out the front door of a cancer ward having just been declared to be in full remission, their family proudly beside them, only to in full public view run over to a nearby nuclear waste disposal truck, shoot the guards in broad daylight, grab a barrel, and start chugging like a college fratboy. And while I'm sure plenty will disagree, for all its myriad sins, I don't think DC's anywhere near that stupid to risk that scale of backlash to no discernible end right when everyone agrees things are going really well for them for a change.
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  6. #111
    Spectacular Member Embryonic Superman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RepHope View Post
    One issue that's been raised by others and should serve as a caution to New 52 Superman fans who think this could be good, is think of the long term effects of this. Sure maybe you hate the marriage (I don't care at all about it) or Jon (I love him), but think about what DC just abruptly pulling the rug out AGAIN would mean. Maybe sales will be strong at first, you'll enjoy the stories, but what about 2 years down the road? What if sales fall, there's a shift in management, or some new creative talent comes on the book and gets to make whatever changes he/she wants? Bendis helped to bring the trunks back apparently, what if someone else later on gets the freedom to restore elements like that?

    Furthermore a reboot now would mean that there is no guarantee that what you like will still be "canon" down the line. It sets the precedent that anytime DC needs to shake things up they can just toss everything out and start over. Why bother getting invested into something like that? Say this new Superman is like the New 52 one. There is zero guarantee that even if he sold well he would stick around. Rebirth Supes has sold decently well, yet in this reboot scenario he's still getting the boot.

    Honestly I think Rich is wrong. Both Bendis and Snyder have plans that don't seem to account for a reboot. Why would you put Snyder on JL right now if you're planning to reboot? Why let Bendis come in and shake things up if it all won't matter in a few months? What about Johns and Doomsday Clock, or that three Joker story with Fabok they're both working on? Does anyone think there's a chance in hell they're going to throw Johns JL out of continuity? I sure as hell don't, no way would he be cool with that.
    I hope Bleeding Cool is wrong, but they have a disturbingly accurate track record when it comes to this stuff. I think the bizarre juxtaposition of this being rumored while they're setting up so many things that run counter to a full reboot is because of the apparent civil, or maybe just tug of, war going on with DC management. DiDio/Lee and Johns seem to have completely counter visions of the DCU at this point. The New 52 came out of nowhere and run roughshod over everything Johns had been cultivating for years, up to and including Brightest Day, which had just wrapped up and returned several deceased characters and some Veritgo-only properties back to the DCU. Johns played along, but then gave us Rebirth when the bottom fell out on the New 52. DiDio/Lee then took a backseat, but there have been indications they've been looking at how to shift the creative direction in their favor again, starting with the "New Age of Heroes" initiative and now this.

    Since DiDio came to power in 2003, we've had the following Superman origins/semi-reboots:

    -Birthright (2003 - 2006)
    -Infinite Crisis/Secret Origin (2006 - 2011)
    -New 52 (2011 - 2016)
    -Pre-Flashpoint Lois & Clark: Hypertime Refugees (2016 - 2017)
    -Merged Pre-Flashpoint/New 52 (2017 - 2020 ?)

    We're averaging a radical new status quo for Superman every four years, and it seems to be accelerating. The DCU can't survive this inanity any longer. You can see the wide gulf of fan opinions on this forum: DC has presented so many conflicting versions of Superman that the fans of one can't find anything recognizable in the other, and all you're doing by trying to create "new" fans is alienating the ones you already had. Rebirth brought many fans back in the fold who found New 52 Superman wasn't to their tastes, but that's then angered the New 52 Superman fans. So will New 53 Superman split the New 52 Superman fans into two camps while driving off the Rebirth readers?

    I've tried to give DC management the benefit of the doubt over the years, but if this rumor comes to pass, this will be the breaking point for me. I hope sanity prevails and people come to their senses, because I don't see any way back from what this would potentially do to their brand.

  7. #112
    Spectacular Member DetectiveStrange's Avatar
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    I'm not a huge fan of the marriages, but I don't hate them. What I do hate is a lack of forethought on the part of DC's upper management and the resulting lack of a cohesive, long-term narrative.

    As has been pointed out before, DiDio's very much into the iconic versions of the characters - which in his mind are the Silver Age versions without the baggage (development). Once on Facebook he posted the original pitch ideas for Infinite Crisis: "dramatic changes were projected for both Nightwing and the marriage of Superman (sense a theme?)". "SUPERMAN/ ACTION COMICS (EB)
    The dissolution of Lois and Clark's marriage; true alien nature of Superman (Action Comics included; Adventures of Superman becomes rotating arcs)"

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  8. #113
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Here are my theories as to what's going on:

    Warners mandated this: It's not outside the realm of possibility that Warners wants their comic division to line up with their movie division. Never mind that the best way to do that would be to just marry them off onscreen. Which means no matter how well the books are doing now, they want "synergy". Marvel does this so why not them?

    Didio wants another New 52: With Johns out of the picture, Didio sees a chance to do the New 52 right without having to worry about keeping anybodies stories. It's obvious he has his own vision for what he wants the DCU to be and now that nobody is standing in his way he'll do it. How much the rest of the company is on board with this remains to be seen.

    The details haven't been worked out: DC is planning something for 2020 but right now they are just spitballing ideas and undoing all the marriages is just one of them. Depending on where things stand by then. This actually seems the most likely to me. This could be less COIE and more IC depending on what details get hashed out.

    Continuity clean up: Rebirth created all kinds of continuity problems. This may be just an attempt to clarify things. This may go hand and in hand with with the one before it.
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  9. #114
    Astonishing Member TheCape's Avatar
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    False alarm everybody, Jim Lee just tweeted about the rumors and he said that there are no plans for a reboot anytime soon.

  10. #115
    Astonishing Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    False alarm everybody, Jim Lee just tweeted about the rumors and he said that there are no plans for a reboot anytime soon.
    Glad DC went ahead and stopped this rumor from escalating.

  11. #116
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The World View Post
    Batman has been kind of resilient in the face of these reboots the character perseveres and Superman seems to be wilting under them and in these last couple of years the character has just been the character getting bombarded by these reshuffles of his history and set up. The character has no time to breathe and take a minute before the next mega event that's suppose to change everything forever. Like I don't give a damn about the marriage but at least break it up IN CONTINUITY. Make a story out of it, show Superman isn't the weakling people believe him to be that will crumple under emotional turmoil and keep it moving.
    Largely, I think that's because DC's been trying to fix something that wasn't really broken in the first place. Batman has been largely spared from reboots, meanwhile Superman (and Wonder Woman) usually takes the largest hit.

    That said, a reboot is the only way I can see undoing the marriage without DC feeling white-hot fan rage like they've never known. That and killing Lois would be beyond stupid. But they had their chance and blew it. Unless a totally new team is on it, I have no faith in a reboot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dispenser Of Truth View Post
    This wouldn't be shooting themselves in the foot, this would be walking proudly out the front door of a cancer ward having just been declared to be in full remission, their family proudly beside them, only to in full public view run over to a nearby nuclear waste disposal truck, shoot the guards in broad daylight, grab a barrel, and start chugging like a college fratboy.
    ROTFLMAO! Oh, man... I'm laughing so hard that I'm crying! And all I can see it Didio's smiling face as he does it (being the rep for the company and all)!

    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    Here are my theories as to what's going on:

    Warners mandated this: It's not outside the realm of possibility that Warners wants their comic division to line up with their movie division. Never mind that the best way to do that would be to just marry them off onscreen. Which means no matter how well the books are doing now, they want "synergy". Marvel does this so why not them?

    Didio wants another New 52: With Johns out of the picture, Didio sees a chance to do the New 52 right without having to worry about keeping anybodies stories. It's obvious he has his own vision for what he wants the DCU to be and now that nobody is standing in his way he'll do it. How much the rest of the company is on board with this remains to be seen.

    The details haven't been worked out: DC is planning something for 2020 but right now they are just spitballing ideas and undoing all the marriages is just one of them. Depending on where things stand by then. This actually seems the most likely to me. This could be less COIE and more IC depending on what details get hashed out.

    Continuity clean up: Rebirth created all kinds of continuity problems. This may be just an attempt to clarify things. This may go hand and in hand with with the one before it.
    That could very well be. Another thing this could be is a test; they're spit-balling ideas and, say, this one gets brought up. But some people say "this is truly stupid. it won't work." But someone else says "no, it'll be fine if we do it right". So person one leaks the info so they can show the fan rage to person two and make sure it doesn't happen - kinda like how Infinite Crisis (I think) was going to kill off Nightwing, but fans heard about it and went ballistic.

    In that case, every comment needs to look like ManOfSteel1979's so this is killed before it takes any kind of shape.
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  12. #117
    Incredible Member RepHope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    False alarm everybody, Jim Lee just tweeted about the rumors and he said that there are no plans for a reboot anytime soon.
    Like I said the timing just doesn't make sense. Rich is probably right about a Crisis coming, but not a reboot, or he's using the word "reboot" incorrectly.

  13. #118
    Mighty Member Clark_Kent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    False alarm everybody, Jim Lee just tweeted about the rumors and he said that there are no plans for a reboot anytime soon.
    2020 isn't soon.

    (Sorry, couldn't resist. This is great news, if true)

    A quick thought on the idea of an "Ultimate"-style Universe...what would everyone think of an Earth-One line, seperate from Earth-0/New Earth/whatever we're calling main Earth these days, that uses the Earth One OGN's as a springboard? I know they weren't particularly popular amongst fans, but story quality aside they have basic origins in place for Superman & Batman, among a few others, and they are different enough from the main continuity versions. It would give us the opportunity to enjoy a new line without having to trudge through yet another origin tale. It just literally popped into my head, it could very well be a bad idea. I only read the Superman books & the first Batman, but I think a universe could be built off of that. People hated Tyrell, for example, but it's not like he'd be around moving forward.


    Edit: I mean monthly releases, not more OGN's in that universe.
    Last edited by Clark_Kent; 05-11-2018 at 05:52 PM.
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    Every post I make, it should be assumed by the reader that the following statement is attached: "It's all subjective. What works for me doesn't necessarily work for you, and vice versa, and that's ok. You may have a different opinion on it, but this is mine. That's the wonderful thing about being a comics fan, it's all subjective."

  14. #119
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Jim Lee also said that bringing back the trunks was the plan all along. You could literally see his nose growing when he said that.

    In any case, whatever. 2020 is a ways away anyway.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 05-11-2018 at 05:53 PM.
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  15. #120
    Mighty Member Clark_Kent's Avatar
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    In case anyone wanted to see the actual tweet:

    ECFA4512-A0E0-4F70-BA6D-6FEC6D4AC59B.jpg
    "Darkseid...always hated music..."

    Every post I make, it should be assumed by the reader that the following statement is attached: "It's all subjective. What works for me doesn't necessarily work for you, and vice versa, and that's ok. You may have a different opinion on it, but this is mine. That's the wonderful thing about being a comics fan, it's all subjective."

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