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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    Trey, I know you REALLY don't care about facts, but with the exception of two years at the turn of the millenium, Marvel has almost always had the larger market and unit shares and the recent years haven't been any different.

    And any writer who thinks marriage gets in the way of stories is an uncreative hack.
    It's a fact that in the past several years DC has almost caught up with Marvel in comics sales. Take away Star Wars, and DC is well ahead now. I've posted the graphs several times about DC's and Marvel's sales that date back many years. I don't care to do it again.

    And it's a fact that television has found marriages tend to hamper writers. Not just the "uncreative hacks." Marriages tend to work better in sitcoms than in dramas. But even in sitcoms, many characters are unmarried.
    Last edited by Trey Strain; 05-11-2018 at 12:39 PM.

  2. #77
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    I honestly think DC's best option now is to start an Ultimates line of some sort. Earth One could have been this, potentially, but I think that imprint is working just fine the way it is.

    Let the mainstream DCU be the modern DCU that's been allowed to evolve and that features the bulk of past continuity - from Golden Age to the present-day.

    Let this new Ultimates universe be a world which allows DC to take a more 'back to basics' and 'classic' take on the icons. Or let them New 52 the hell out of the line. Preferably the status quo should be different enough from the mainstream DCU. And should be a more 'basic' status quo which evolves slowly (something which Marvel's Ultimate Universe failed at because their Ultimate Universe gradually became as complex, if not more, as 616).

    Over time, depending on which version does better sales-wise they can shift the focus of their publishing efforts. But keep both lines going regardless.
    Yeah, I'm arguing the same thing on this topic over in the Superman forum. It makes an astonishing amount of sense to not even be considered.

    In such a situation the only ones who might lose out are fans of new characters, stuff like the New Age of Heroes for instance, as a mirror line might flat out replace such projects. But the frank reality is those things never sell anyway.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 05-11-2018 at 12:36 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "“Your boos mean nothing, I’ve seen what makes you cheer!”

  3. #78
    Astonishing Member Robanker's Avatar
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    I quit reading comics for almost five years during the New 52 and this might be the final nail in the coffin for me. I've been a DC fan my whole life, but DC clearly doesn't want my money anymore. If they undo the Supermarriage again, I'm just out. Jon is great and losing him because Didio can't accept he's a source of terrible ideas is just too much for me.

    I know he loves Marvel but I'm convinced he's trying to drive DC under now so they can just buy them.

  4. #79
    Spectacular Member Embryonic Superman's Avatar
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    If this came to pass and they actually erased Clark/Lois (again!), Jon Kent, and potentially even Damian Wayne, I'd definitely be done and never come back. DC has been ridiculous under DiDio's tenure. How many mulligans can you really get when it comes to reboots and new origins? For some reason, he thinks he needs to blow up the universe every few years and create more bitter divides in the fandom, but the magic formula has always been to just tell good stories with consistency.

  5. #80
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    As a Superman fan, there actually ended up being very few things about Rebirth that I preferred over the New 52 (frankly the only thing I can think of is the post-Reborn costume), but even so I don't see how you get away with this again. I wouldn't miss Jon. Hell just the idea of him leaving might compel me to do a happy dance, I think his creation was ridiculous and he's mostly been a Mary Sue since his induction. But that's a personal preference. The longer game isn't all about me, and you ask what is the cost? Another total reboot when you haven't even gotten things straightened out from this latest reshuffle? I mean damn, why even have a continuity at all. There are other options here. To not consider them is just beyond me. Their all or nothing approach is so maddening.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "“Your boos mean nothing, I’ve seen what makes you cheer!”

  6. #81
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Things they have learned from previous experiences:

    1. No matter how little time a character, or version thereof, exists... if they're suddenly removed from 'continuity', readers are bound to get upset.
    2. No matter how reluctant readers are to the new versions of characters, or a new continuity, they eventually either accept it or they're replaced with readers who consider it the 'best thing ever'.
    3. Despite the outcry over meta-events that change 'the world as we know it' with retcons, reboots or relaunches, they sell.

    So until a Crisis-level event fails to sell more copies than an average issue of Nightwing or Green Arrow, we will keep getting them.
    "There's magic in the sound of analog audio." - CNET.

  7. #82
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    I take a broad view of it all: DC has more or less been in "CONSTANT CRISIS" mode since 1985. Just because you don't see the title CRISIS on anything that's on the shelves this month doesn't mean it isn't happening. It's just happening in the background, only periodically surfacing with the actual CRISIS title.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
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  8. #83
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    Marvel's super-hero comics are the ones that are in decline.

    https://www.pastemagazine.com/articl...el-comics.html

  9. #84
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Good! Maybe this time they'll do it right. As in, not rebooting in the middle of an ongoing storyline and actually settle things before they go to print. Not gonna hold my breath on that, though.
    I can see it now . . . Didio proclaiming the reboot that results from this new "CRISIS!!!" is "the New52 done right!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby Krackle View Post
    Still waiting on Doomsday Clock to end.
    Don't know if I'll still be around by then . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Stone View Post
    They'd probably just call it Crisis, so that it'll be 'Crisis, done right.'
    I came up with a similar idea before I got to the page where you posted that...

    Quote Originally Posted by protege View Post
    Sad to say, this is just stupid. I liked the first crisis, but as the years wore on, and multiple big name events from both publishers permeated the landscape, I lost a lot of interest.
    Whether you liked the changes that resulted from CoIE or not, those of us who were buying it in single issues when it was originally being released will always remember that this was a major, game-changing event. It got a lot of attention in the non-comic-book-based media, and as we read about characters like Supergirl and Flash actually being killed off and not suddenly revealed to have survived in the last issue of the series, it hit us that things would never be exactly the same again.

  10. #85
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    I take a broad view of it all: DC has more or less been in "CONSTANT CRISIS" mode since 1985. Just because you don't see the title CRISIS on anything that's on the shelves this month doesn't mean it isn't happening. It's just happening in the background, only periodically surfacing with the actual CRISIS title.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    It would kinda create a cool tagline. "It Never Ended" or something like that.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "“Your boos mean nothing, I’ve seen what makes you cheer!”

  11. #86
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Honestly, wouldn't be for the best if they just give their current characthers a definitive conclusion and after that, they can start over for complete zero after it with a complete new universe and modern versions of the characthers when they can do whatever they want, with no previous continuity there to "limit creativity" as the call it. Unless that my proposition is too much to ask from a business standpoint

  12. #87
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    It would kinda create a cool tagline. "It Never Ended" or something like that.
    CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS # 13 - THE SAGA CONTINUES!

    Curiously, during the past few days, I've been kicking around an idea in my head: the ORIGINAL Monitor shows up in the present day DC Universe, and reveals to the entire world their previous lives...Pre-COIE, Post-COIE, and New 52. The Monitor then offers to establish ONE of these timelines as the one that everybody will live out the rest of their lives in. He gives them 72 hours to decide. Everybody goes back to consider the ramifications of which timeline to accept.

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  13. #88
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    It would kinda create a cool tagline. "It Never Ended" or something like that.
    Eerily enough, SK, your post happened to be Post # 85 on this thread. 85...as in 1985...as in CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS.

    *gulps*

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
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  14. #89
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    Earth-6 Ollie uses pinto beans, but Earth-11 Ollie uses black beans. How will DC resolve this? There will come the CHILI CRISIS...stomachs will live, stomachs will die, and all our digestive systems will never be the same again!

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    Man, you make the best posts sometimes, BA. That brought a smile to my face!

    Personally, in the great Chili Crisis, I'm actually going to be siding with "Team Ghost Pepper." Why settle for less when you can cook with something that comes with a "caution" label?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cerulean Scarab View Post
    They find Doc. Some sort of altercation ensues. The timeline "solidifies" into whatever DC wants and the Watchmen cast quietly fade back into their own little corner.

    Though since this is a Doomsday Clock, maybe it's secretly just the "coutndown" to whatever the real world ending event will be.
    I've been assuming that Clock leads into the "real" story since it was announced, and the issues that're out so far only cement that idea.

    Clock is far too personal and "small" a story to be dealing with the continuity of the entire line. When DC decides to mess with its history, they make a big deal out of it. So I've figured that Clock would end by setting up the fight between the heroes and whoever is threatening time. The personal story of Clock ends with "times up" and leads into the big Crisis where all the heroes show up and punch a giant villain with vague motivations in the nose. I've never been convinced that Manhattan was the real villain though; you go back to the end of Flashpoint, and you see Pandora talking about making a stronger universe that'll withstand a big, oncoming threat. And we know she was working for Manhattan (before he nuked her). I've long suspected that Manhattan was actually trying to save the DCU and all the changes he's made were in preparation for something even worse. That strikes me as a very "Watchmen" kind of thing to do; blow up half the world to save the other half.

    As for the whole topic itself......a Crisis coming isn't a surprise. And this talk of another reboot? I wouldn't put it past DC to repeat the same mistakes but I suspect what they mean by "reboot" is actually "Figuring out what the the hell continuity really is now." No matter how you slice it, the continuity (such as it is) is different from anything we had before. It's not New52, it's not post-Crisis, it's not even really a fusion of the two (especially where Superman is concerned). And it's vague and contradictory and in need of clarification.

    So if this Crisis rumor is true, that's what I expect it'll be; Doomsday Clock will bring in Manhattan, who's reasons and motivations will be shown to be altruistic despite his f**ked up methods and then the real villain will show up, leading into the new Crisis that'll end with the current continuity finally being defined.

    If they really do reboot again.....I don't think I'll be sticking around. I gave the New52 a honest chance and enjoyed a lot of it, but I don't think I have it in me to do it again so soon.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  15. #90
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    This seems to imply that DC has planned afar ahead as 2020. Given how "well planned out" Rebirth has been, I'm certain they don't have all of 2019 planned.
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


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