Folklore, fairy tales, theology, and mythology.

[Orunmila-Oni]

Anyone interested in world folklore, mythology, and the old (original) fairy tales? I'm fascinated by old stories from around the world and any comics or media that re-imagines and reinterprets them. I love any stories incorporating elements of theology and religion as well. I'm curious if anyone else is interested in discussing such things, there relevance in history, as well as there significance in modern story-telling. I've only barely just begun to wade around in such stories as Hellboy and the B.P.R.D., Hellblazer, Fables, and the like. If anyone has any suggestions for similar titles to try out I'm all ears. My own stories/projects tend to incorporate such elements so I'm always interested in learning about different lore from various cultures around the world. I've heard theories and views about the belief that comics are our modern day mythologies; stories told to explain the world around us as well as to instruct and give examples toward our roles and acceptable behavior in society.

[jb681131]

Here is a creature from the French Alps (the Alps are mountains going from Italy to France to Swizerland to Austria).
It is called the Dahu. It looks like a Chamois. A goat like animal from the Alps.


But the particularity of the Dahu is that it's got shorter legs on one side so they can walk on the mountain side.
A popullar practice is the Dahu hunt. The Dahu hunt consists in finding a Dahu and wistling it so it turns around and fall (because they have shorter legs on one side).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahu

[Orunmila-Oni]

Here is a creature from the French Alps (the Alps are mountains going from Italy to France to Swizerland to Austria).
It is called the Dahu. It looks like a Chamois. A goat like animal from the Alps.


But the particularity of the Dahu is that it's got shorter legs on one side so they can walk on the mountain side.
A popullar practice is the Dahu hunt. The Dahu hunt consists in finding a Dahu and wistling it so it turns around and fall (because they have shorter legs on one side).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahu

I've actually heard of these before. I couldn't remember their name if you asked me, but definitely interesting.

[Darkspellmaster]

Anyone interested in world folklore, mythology, and the old (original) fairy tales? I'm fascinated by old stories from around the world and any comics or media that re-imagines and reinterprets them. I love any stories incorporating elements of theology and religion as well. I'm curious if anyone else is interested in discussing such things, there relevance in history, as well as there significance in modern story-telling. I've only barely just begun to wade around in such stories as Hellboy and the B.P.R.D., Hellblazer, Fables, and the like. If anyone has any suggestions for similar titles to try out I'm all ears. My own stories/projects tend to incorporate such elements so I'm always interested in learning about different lore from various cultures around the world. I've heard theories and views about the belief that comics are our modern day mythologies; stories told to explain the world around us as well as to instruct and give examples toward our roles and acceptable behavior in society.

Fairytales and myths, yes please.

I'm actually working on a panel for a convention that covers some myths and legends used in Japanese folklore. Like the idea of the Baku, or dream eater. they are a creature that devours your nightmares, but also can be less trusted as they can eat your good dreams as well. They've actually been around from the 14th and 15th century coming over from legends from China. \

Try looking for books translated from the works of Kunio Yanagita. He's thought to be the Japanese version of the Grimms brothers.

[Darkspellmaster]

I find "The Little Mermaid" by Hans Christian Andersen very interesting.

You know the weird thing is that some of the story of the little mermaid has ties to older stories of Dutch Sailors. Mermaids were, prior to Anderson's story, seen as dangerous creatures that would, like Sirens, lure men to their deaths and drown them. It's only been since modern time and the Little Mermaid that we've seen a rise in people seeing them as gentle creatures in the west. I think in the East they were part of the water gods court and used to help him. And in Brazil there are mermaids that are part dolphin.

Also if you think about it, in some weird way, the Shape of Water, story is a sort of version of the little Mermaid except backwards. Rather then her becoming human, she becomes a sea creature to live with her love.

[Carabas]

I find "The Little Mermaid" by Hans Christian Andersen very interesting.

A thing about Andersen's fairy tales: they're not "real" fairy tales. They're essentially short stories written by Andersen in the 19th century in the style of "true" fairy tales. There's really nothing folkloristic or mythic about them.

Compare the brother's Grimm's fairy tales: what they did in the same time period was dig up stories from the 1300s or earlier, and cleaned them up (got rid of the most excessive bits of violence and sex) for modern consumption.

[Abe]

Here is a creature from the French Alps (the Alps are mountains going from Italy to France to Swizerland to Austria).
It is called the Dahu. It looks like a Chamois. A goat like animal from the Alps.


But the particularity of the Dahu is that it's got shorter legs on one side so they can walk on the mountain side.
A popullar practice is the Dahu hunt. The Dahu hunt consists in finding a Dahu and wistling it so it turns around and fall (because they have shorter legs on one side).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahu

Best post on CBR ever. I am mort de rire, jb.

Excellent.

[jb681131]

For everyon's culture again, you all know Grimm's tales from Germany, or Anderson's from Danemark, but have you heard of Perrault's tales and LaFontaine's Fables from France ? You probably know without knowing.

Charles Perrault:

* Tales of mother Goose
* Cinderalla
* The Sleeping Beauty
* Little red riding hood
* Puss in Boots
* ...

Jean de La Fontaine (over 100 fables) - losts of his Fables are inspiered by Aesop's:

* The coach and the fly (aka the Fly and the Mule)
Six horses strain to pull a stage-coach up a sandy hill and all the passengers are obliged to get out. A fly now buzzes about, urging on the horses and supervising the progress of the coach, then complains that all the work has been left to it alone. The fabulist comments,

Thus certain people, with important air,
Meddle with business they know nought about:
Seem to be wanted everywhere,
And everywhere they ought to be turned out.

* The Fox and the Crow - everyone knows it in France
In the fable a crow has found a piece of cheese and retired to a branch to eat it. A fox, wanting it for himself, flatters the crow, calling it beautiful and wondering whether its voice is as sweet to match. When it lets out a caw, the cheese falls and is devoured by the fox.

* The Frog and the Ox (aka The frog that wished to be as big as the ox)
The story concerns a frog that tries to inflate itself to the size of an ox, but bursts in the attempt. It has usually been applied to socio-economic relations.
La Fontaine conclude with:

This world of ours is full of foolish creatures too -
Commoners want to build chateaux;
Each princeling wants his royal retinue;
Each count his squires. And so it goes.

* The Tortoise and the Hare
The story concerns a Hare who ridicules a slow-moving Tortoise. Tired of the Hare's arrogant behavior, the Tortoise challenges him to a race.[2] The hare soon leaves the tortoise behind and, confident of winning, takes a nap midway through the race. When the Hare awakes however, he finds that his competitor, crawling slowly but steadily, has arrived before him.

* The Wolf and the Lamb
A wolf comes upon a lamb and, in order to justify taking its life, accuses it of various misdemeanours, all of which the lamb proves to be impossible. Losing patience, the wolf says the offences must have been committed by someone else in the family and that it does not propose to delay its meal by enquiring any further. The morals drawn are that the tyrant can always find an excuse for his tyranny, and that the unjust will not listen to the reasoning of the innocent.

* ...

[Kees_L]

The same way books or even literary authors precede the invention of (mass-)bookprinting with the greatest ease (throughout time books were written if they weren't yet printed), will 'fairy tales' indeed be more about oral tradition than the works of cats like Andersen (a pioneer at trying to gain monetary success from "writing professionally" (for children) or Grimm (two linguists) or either the 'bourguois' Perrault and de la Fontaine.

Whereas even ancient literary personas like Aesop or Homer or Tacitus will prove as 'legendary' in themselves as much as their writings will.

There are earlier published books on folk tales, in Dutch-Flemish-German traditions like for instance 'Of Reynaert the Fox [Van Den Vos Reynaerde]' dated around 1250, as well as 'Till Eulenspiegel' [Tijl Uilenspiegel] published in 1515, but situated around 1350 (being the time of the Plague).
These works display there is and has been at least some knowledge or recordings on what playwrights or jesters actually performed at courts throughout Medieval times.

And particularly such transcribed plays dating from around 1600, (the start of 'Modern times'), as by playrights like Vondel, Hooft and their contemporaries, the humor or sensations sought among audiences was grotesquely gruesome, vulgar and filthy.
Similar to how thanks to the Renaissance within Europe allowing for more appreciation of the Arts outside of but religious restrictions, some of the 16th century paintings of Bruegel allude to common if not drunken stinky vulgarity rather much.

According to Wiki (as well as some books I've got) in many cultures exist courtly or by other means official storytellers, since ancient times, as belonging to specific traditions. Real nice ones too.

[Tien Long]

Always interested in mythology, folklore, and religion. Having a degree in East Asian Studies, I can unabashedly say that I'm partial towards the religious and mythological beliefs of China. As someone who is striving to be a social studies teacher at the middle and high school level, I'm glad to see that the curricula does make time for Buddhism, Daoism, and Confucianism. Do the kids' eyes glaze over a bit when you talk about the Eightfold Path, samsara, and nirvana? Yeah, but you try you're best nonetheless .

Still, I think more could be done with East Asia (and other parts of the world) when it comes to teaching kids mythology. Subbing for 4th and 5th graders, I've seen how kids are learning about Greek and Roman myths. I think it's pretty cool to see how these kids are very passionate and excited to learn about these stories and characters, especially since they're being reinvented for modern audiences. Rick Riordan's Percy Jackson series is a prime example of that. At the same time though, I'd like to see my students learn about non-Greco-Roman mythologies. I'd love to teach them about Sun Wukong, Anansi, or Quetzalcoatl.

Thus, I'm happy to see that kids' literature is moving in that direction. Rick Riordan is starting to publish kids' books featuring Norse mythology with the Magnus Chase and the Gods of Asgard series:


One of my 4th grade students introduced me to this title The Serpent's Secret: Kiranmala and the Kingdom Beyond which marries Bengali folklore with tween angst:


So, for me, I would love to see more world mythologies incorporated into YA literature.

[Kees_L]

Always interested in mythology, folklore, and religion. Having a degree in East Asian Studies, I can unabashedly say that I'm partial towards the religious and mythological beliefs of China. As someone who is striving to be a social studies teacher at the middle and high school level, I'm glad to see that the curricula does make time for Buddhism, Daoism, and Confucianism. Do the kids' eyes glaze over a bit when you talk about the Eightfold Path, samsara, and nirvana? Yeah, but you try you're best nonetheless .

How should I regard the stance on (once-) banned Chinese culture aspects? Are such still partly frowned upon or redacted in ways and are they complete thus ascertainable still?

I know that in my own country regionality mostly precedes nationality, since for the once united states of the Netherlands nationality will be relatively new. So our traditions or cultures let themselves be distinguished regionally moreso than anything else. Over which no regimes or leaders had much influence in a redacting sense at all.

Albeit the classics such as Greek / Roman / Abramic traditions seem heavily redacted or colored such as for instance during the 19th century within my native parts.
A bit like some books I have on Slavic both as Celtic stuff, offering traditions locally, disputedly in some sense even, since territorially or politically countries would or might be evolving notwithstanding. Whereas some people might perceive some aspects of interest in Norse mythology or the (Norse) Edda as having to do with interest in pre-Christian beliefs prior to any church having claimed itself official.

I personally also really like African, ancient Sumerian or Etrusk, both as Native American and (pre-) South-American lore, but also books on Irish people sharing old fireplace-stories, with feeling it precious or lucky it still exists.
I also still hope to find Welsh or Manx storybooks one day.

[Tien Long]

How should I regard the stance on (once-) banned Chinese culture aspects? Are such still partly frowned upon or redacted in ways and are they complete thus ascertainable still?

I know that in my own country regionality mostly precedes nationality, since for the once united states of the Netherlands nationality will be relatively new. So our traditions or cultures let themselves be distinguished regionally moreso than anything else. Over which no regimes or leaders had much influence in a redacting sense at all.

Albeit the classics such as Greek / Roman / Abramic traditions seem heavily redacted or colored such as for instance during the 19th century within my native parts.
A bit like some books I have on Slavic both as Celtic stuff, offering traditions locally, disputedly in some sense even, since territorially or politically countries would or might be evolving notwithstanding. Whereas some people might perceive some aspects of interest in Norse mythology or the (Norse) Edda as having to do with interest in pre-Christian beliefs prior to any church having claimed itself official.

I personally also really like African, ancient Sumerian or Etrusk, both as Native American and (pre-) South-American lore, but also books on Irish people sharing old fireplace-stories, with feeling it precious or lucky it still exists.
I also still hope to find Welsh or Manx storybooks one day.

Hmmm, that's a good questions Kees L. Before anything else, I'll just say it's been a couple of years since I've been in mainland China, so I can't personally say what's been going on there with regards to mythology, religion, or folklore. I'm actually back in America right now, serving as a teacher.

Still, I've read a couple of articles here and there. Watched a couple of video clips too. Plus, it hasn't been that long since I've visited mainland China. And what I can say is that mainland China's beliefs regarding religion, mythology, or folklore are not what they were 60 or so years ago when it was full on Cultural Revolution. There are tons of temples scattered throughout China filled with scores of Buddhist and Daoist monks who cater to the needs of scores of believers. When I visited Wutai Shan, one of the holiest Buddhist sites in all of China about a decade or so ago, there were a lot of pilgrims worshiping at the temples. At the bookstores there, I found sutras and holy works (which could probably be found in any of the major bookstore chains throughout China). Many Chinese are taking up orders and becoming monks and priests. Plus, in terms of pop culture, Chinese myths can be found on TV shows and movies. There's always a new version of "Journey to the West" that comes out. So, people are embracing these things.

But, again, religious belief is still under the auspices of the CCP. Buddhist this, Daoist that, ultimately the government does control them (though I suspect though that control is in flux, depending on which province you're in). One can believe and read whatever text, story, or folklore they want. These works probably aren't redacted from any original text. Just as long as you don't use them to rise up against the government (like the Falun Gong might), then it's fine. Besides, ordinary Chinese see these stories as not real, but just superstitions.

[Tien Long]

Before anything else, I thought I'd share a great story about discussions on mythology. Indeed, a couple of years ago, there was a great thread about mythology here on these boards. I had mentioned hearing about Celtic beliefs in Otherworld in Captain Britain, and a poster further explained that concept. This idea of the "in-between," of parallel worlds, and how one could access these worlds through doorways.

That theme of doorways to other worlds really resonated with me and I found it when I had to teach the The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe during a summer enrichment program for elementary school kids. Not only did we read excerpts from the book, but I was able to sneak in a couple of passages on Otherworld, fairies, parallel worlds, and the "in-between" idea. I'll tell ya, those kids really enjoyed it!

So, I do hope we can further discuss these ideas on this thread .

[Greg]

I'm doing a series of graphic novels based on Black mythology.

https://www.amazon.com/Isnana-Were-S...ct_top?ie=UTF8



Is'nana the Were-Spider is a horror, fantasy, coming of age book about the son of Anansi, the Spider God of Stories of West African and Caribbean folktales. Is'nana searches for his own place in the world while trying to live up to his father's legacy. I'm also using this book as a way to introduce readers to characters from Black mythology, ranging from African mythology and spirituality, Caribbean folktales, and African American stories given most school don't quite educate people in such figures.

[Kees_L]

Hmmm, that's a good questions Kees L. Before anything else, I'll just say it's been a couple of years since I've been in mainland China, so I can't personally say what's been going on there with regards to mythology, religion, or folklore. I'm actually back in America right now, serving as a teacher.

Still, I've read a couple of articles here and there. Watched a couple of video clips too. Plus, it hasn't been that long since I've visited mainland China. And what I can say is that mainland China's beliefs regarding religion, mythology, or folklore are not what they were 60 or so years ago when it was full on Cultural Revolution. There are tons of temples scattered throughout China filled with scores of Buddhist and Daoist monks who cater to the needs of scores of believers. When I visited Wutai Shan, one of the holiest Buddhist sites in all of China about a decade or so ago, there were a lot of pilgrims worshiping at the temples. At the bookstores there, I found sutras and holy works (which could probably be found in any of the major bookstore chains throughout China). Many Chinese are taking up orders and becoming monks and priests. Plus, in terms of pop culture, Chinese myths can be found on TV shows and movies. There's always a new version of "Journey to the West" that comes out. So, people are embracing these things.

But, again, religious belief is still under the auspices of the CCP. Buddhist this, Daoist that, ultimately the government does control them (though I suspect though that control is in flux, depending on which province you're in). One can believe and read whatever text, story, or folklore they want. These works probably aren't redacted from any original text. Just as long as you don't use them to rise up against the government (like the Falun Gong might), then it's fine. Besides, ordinary Chinese see these stories as not real, but just superstitions.

Thank you very much for answering my direct question to such length! I've never had the chance to ask it.

For me it's mainly that I can really marvel at how much of old or particular seeming culture and lore appears (still) available to me in ways. Also I've lately discovered a number of recent Chinese made movies, next to a Kazakh/Russian/German co-production mostly shot in China (called 'Mongol') seemingly providing folky-cultural windows impressively.