Characters you hate.

[comicscollector]

Aw. He's so fun! He's an overweight balding middle-aged man with the 'special' personality of an Emma Frost (or Karla Sofen).

He's as non-traditional as a superhero can be, surrounded by impossibly fit people who could be professional underwear models, and who mostly seem immune to things like male pattern baldness or even *aging,* and can apparently eat anything they want without consequences (including oceans of mead for Thor, and living almost entirely on Scotch, for years, for Tony, while still remaining inexplicably fit) and his snark is delightfully bitter and bitchy, unlike the more harmless quips and banter of people like Spider-Man and Hawkeye.

But I'm with you on Gilgamesh. Ugh.

As a non traditional super hero i think i can see what you are getting at,even so if he was supposed to be a non traditional super hero why have him right from his first stories in the mightiest team of Super heroes right from the start.He just looked odd in the Avengers.
If Doctor Druid was supposed to be a interesting non traditional super hero, then the character would be better developed in a own ongoing/limited series or in a less traditional team of super heroes that the Avengers as the Defenders or the Great Lakes Avengers

[Bozack]

Sentry is complete and utter trash.

[CuteClops]

So to address the points individually:

- Secret Empire was NOT steve rogers it was an alternate universe version.

- yes, scott was right about the phoenix making new mutants, but he threatened the entire planet and became a world destroying tyrant in the process. He killed professor x and was literally boiling oceans. Steve may have acted rash, but that's probably because he didn't know much other than the fact that the phoenix had already wrecked at least one planet and kicked novas ass

- He didn't control the x-men in the slightest. the team was completely lead by Havok. And by the time the cloud came into play, Steve was an old man, so there wasn't much he could do, not to mention his conern was EVERYONE not just him. Also, to that end, during that time, pretty much everyone in marvel was ignoring the threat of that cloud, so if you want to blame him, you have to blame everyone else.

- if Cyclops wasn't a villain, please explain how attempting to murder the avengers, allowing his teammates to sink a sovereign nation, killing professor x, and attempting to destroy the planet is not villainous (not to mention as the phoenix he was asserting as much 'control' as you say steve imposes on the world"

And one of this includes scott just being a dick like cheating on jean or, you know, sleeping with emma on her grave. That's not to say steve is above reproach, that's definitely not the case. Steve is no way a perfect character that always makes the right decision, but to criticize him for the things that Cyclops has done, sometimes to a worse degree is laughable.

Scott did not want to destroy the world, it was Steve Rogers who almost did it by attacking the X-Men for something he didn't understand. Cable told Scott that the Avengers would do anything like this, just read Avengers X-Sanction.

Scott was possessed by the Phoenix when he killed Xavier.
If he's guilty of that, then Steve is guilty of the Nazi Steve in Secret Empire.

Scott never tried killing the Avengers. But the Avengers tried to kill Scott on AvX. In fact, killing is the Avengers specialty. In fact, fascism and genocide are the Avengers specialty. Including planetary genocides.

Steve has persecuted the X-Men on several occasions, in Cable and X-Force and in All-New X-Men, for example.

He created Uncanny Avengers just to annoy Scott and to control the X-Men. Alex has always been an idiot in the hands of the Saint Steve, with all that stuff about “the 'M' word represents everything I hate”. Steve never cared about the mutant race.

He even stopped the X-Men from taking the Scarlet Witch to justice. He said that no matter what she had done, she was an Avenger, and nothing happens to an Avenger.

Is not Steve the greatest supreme leader? Isn't he the great leader in that story? The Saint Steve who controls everyone? But he did nothing to defend the mutant-kind in two genocides: 1) committed by Wanda; 2) committed by the Inhumans.
Where was the Uncanny Avengers and Steve Rogers when mutants were dying in that Inhuman gas chamber... or even in Westchester and Utopia? He was helping mutants right until the end, right?
Nah, on the contrary, he openly defended the genocidal witch.


Scott cheated on Jean, but he was never a genocidal murderer, and never a hypocrite like Steve Rogers.

The Avengers are the worst killers in Marvel Universe.

And Steve Rogers is the biggest hypocrite of all.
I'll finish up from here.
As I said before, I don't hate Steve Rogers, but that doesn't mean I like him. And I hope he stays away from the X-Men. I might say the same for the Inhumans and the Scarlet Witch: Stay away from the X-Men.
Thanks for the chat.

[DanMad1977]

Norman Osborn. I loved him till he died and even after his ressurection he was fine by me, but nowadays the character is so overused and boring. The symbiote shit is...ah forget it, what a cluster'###'

[kilderkin]

Scott did not want to destroy the world, it was Steve Rogers who almost did it by attacking the X-Men for something he didn't understand. Cable told Scott that the Avengers would do anything like this, just read Avengers X-Sanction.

Scott was possessed by the Phoenix when he killed Xavier.
If he's guilty of that, then Steve is guilty of the Nazi Steve in Secret Empire.

Scott never tried killing the Avengers. But the Avengers tried to kill Scott on AvX. In fact, killing is the Avengers specialty. In fact, fascism and genocide are the Avengers specialty. Including planetary genocides.

Steve has persecuted the X-Men on several occasions, in Cable and X-Force and in All-New X-Men, for example.

He created Uncanny Avengers just to annoy Scott and to control the X-Men. Alex has always been an idiot in the hands of the Saint Steve, with all that stuff about “the 'M' word represents everything I hate”. Steve never cared about the mutant race.

He even stopped the X-Men from taking the Scarlet Witch to justice. He said that no matter what she had done, she was an Avenger, and nothing happens to an Avenger.

Is not Steve the greatest supreme leader? Isn't he the great leader in that story? The Saint Steve who controls everyone? But he did nothing to defend the mutant-kind in two genocides: 1) committed by Wanda; 2) committed by the Inhumans.
Where was the Uncanny Avengers and Steve Rogers when mutants were dying in that Inhuman gas chamber... or even in Westchester and Utopia? He was helping mutants right until the end, right?
Nah, on the contrary, he openly defended the genocidal witch.


Scott cheated on Jean, but he was never a genocidal murderer, and never a hypocrite like Steve Rogers.

The Avengers are the worst killers in Marvel Universe.

And Steve Rogers is the biggest hypocrite of all.
I'll finish up from here.
As I said before, I don't hate Steve Rogers, but that doesn't mean I like him. And I hope he stays away from the X-Men. I might say the same for the Inhumans and the Scarlet Witch: Stay away from the X-Men.
Thanks for the chat.

As far as hypocrisy goes I have long felt xavier was the biggest fall from grace

[Sutekh]

Whose fantasy is to be overweight, bald, and disliked by teammates and civilians alike? What fun am I missing?

Oddly, I don't actually want to *be* all of the characters in the Marvel Universe. I don't even want to be all of the characters I *like,* for that matter. (I love Moondragon and Snowbird and Nightcrawler and Cyclops, but wouldn't actually want to *be* any of them. Not even in my wildest fantasies. So yeah, I can like Doctor Druid, without actually wanting to *be* him.)

Madrox? Yeah, I'd totally want to be him. I could get so much done. (Or, more likely, have a half dozen of me procrastinating and wasting time on the internet at the same time...)

[Danileriver23]

Alright, there's clearly two narratives regarding Scott and Cap, but I'm not going to get into an argument about who was right.

The point I was making is that the majority of criticism that gets thrown on cap could also be applied to Cyclops. They have the "Leonardo" problem. They're the no fun no nonsense leader types who, by the nature of their character, feel the need to lead.

It's ok to like one and not the other, definitely do, but you can't bash one for having those characteristics and not the other.

EDIT: Come to think of it, I'd actually say Scott's more like Captain Marvel in a lot of ways.

[Crazy Diamond]

I can't think of any Marvel character I hate or dislike but I don't care for the following:

Thor - too Aryan ubermensch for me and the original Norse myth was far more interesting
Loki - whiny and annoying and overpowered - was also more interesting in Norse myth
Peter Parker - I'll always have a soft spot for him but don't care for how he's been written since One More Day
Wolverine - same problem as Peter Parker but replace One More Day with Wolverine: Origins --> once they revealed his true history it felt like his story had ended and he should've been allowed to find some peace but this is Marvel and their business model doesn't allow for that
any character that grows or shrinks - just can't get into them but special mention to Hank Pym for reasons already covered in this thread
Dr. Doom/Deadpool/Thanos - used to be interesting and then they all got Flanderized
Tony Stark - he's alright in the movies and I liked the old Fox Kids cartoon but I liked him more as the director of SHIELD than as a superhero - he was like Hal Jordan in that he was very flawed and yet it rarely if ever got acknowledged until they wanted them to be antagonists. You can't have a character be like that for years and then suddenly be like "oh by the way those traits writers ignored for years are the reasons why they're villains now".
any Venom that isn't Eddie Brock - what's the point?
most of the Hellfire Club - just looked like an excuse to put leather and bondage in a superhero comic
Green Goblin - boring, one-note villain who should've stayed dead - at least the first Spider-Man film got that right
Scorpion - he's not an undead ninja spectre, he's a lame in a green suit (or as Venom) and I can't take him seriously
J. Jonah Jameson - how did he never go to jail?
any racist stereotype character - really unnecessary and over the top and considering how readers complained about Steamboat in Captain Marvel (Billy Batson) I wonder if there were readers who didn't like Whitewash Jones and characters like that

[JasonEsta]

Scott did not want to destroy the world, it was Steve Rogers who almost did it by attacking the X-Men for something he didn't understand. Cable told Scott that the Avengers would do anything like this, just read Avengers X-Sanction.

Scott was possessed by the Phoenix when he killed Xavier.
If he's guilty of that, then Steve is guilty of the Nazi Steve in Secret Empire.

Scott never tried killing the Avengers. But the Avengers tried to kill Scott on AvX. In fact, killing is the Avengers specialty. In fact, fascism and genocide are the Avengers specialty. Including planetary genocides.

Steve has persecuted the X-Men on several occasions, in Cable and X-Force and in All-New X-Men, for example.

He created Uncanny Avengers just to annoy Scott and to control the X-Men. Alex has always been an idiot in the hands of the Saint Steve, with all that stuff about “the 'M' word represents everything I hate”. Steve never cared about the mutant race.

He even stopped the X-Men from taking the Scarlet Witch to justice. He said that no matter what she had done, she was an Avenger, and nothing happens to an Avenger.

Is not Steve the greatest supreme leader? Isn't he the great leader in that story? The Saint Steve who controls everyone? But he did nothing to defend the mutant-kind in two genocides: 1) committed by Wanda; 2) committed by the Inhumans.
Where was the Uncanny Avengers and Steve Rogers when mutants were dying in that Inhuman gas chamber... or even in Westchester and Utopia? He was helping mutants right until the end, right?
Nah, on the contrary, he openly defended the genocidal witch.


Scott cheated on Jean, but he was never a genocidal murderer, and never a hypocrite like Steve Rogers.

The Avengers are the worst killers in Marvel Universe.

And Steve Rogers is the biggest hypocrite of all.
I'll finish up from here.
As I said before, I don't hate Steve Rogers, but that doesn't mean I like him. And I hope he stays away from the X-Men. I might say the same for the Inhumans and the Scarlet Witch: Stay away from the X-Men.
Thanks for the chat.

You cant take to Wanda to justice because what she did doesnt exist on the record.

[Havok83]

You cant take to Wanda to justice because what she did doesnt exist on the record.

He wasnt talking legal justice through the court system

[Marvel Forever]

Oh my.... I sure did not see that coming, Crimz. Still, I am almost tempted to follow in your footsteps and say that the Invisible Girl is my favorite comic character, but that the Invisible Woman is my most hated one. However, that would not really be accurate, although there is a grain of truth in that statement. The first part is certainly true. The Invisible Girl of the 1960's and to a lesser extent the 1970's, will always and forever be my favorite comic character. While I am not pleased at times with the modern day Susan Storm, especially when she becomes Malice or when she shows her power too much for my liking, I cannot say that I hate her. As for Ultimate Sue Storm, I guess that I prefer her somewhat to the current 616 Sue, but not by a wide margin.

[Barton616]

Like others have said, I try to keep the mentality that there is no such thing as bad characters, just bad writers and bad angles to show the characters. Not every character is for every fan, so while I personally can't stand someone like the Punisher or Deadpool, I'm not going to say I hate them just because they aren't my cup of tea.

That being said, if I never have to read another story involving Nadia Pym or Van Dyne or whatever, I'll be a much happier person. She's a character created for movie synergy, which I could be okay if done well, and to me it's just not at all. Making her Hank's secret child, giving her Natasha's background, and taking a personality I find endearing with Kamala and cranking it up to 11 just aggravates the hell out of me. Then she's put on titles I was enjoying and have characters I typically like tell me how great she is, which really does her no favors with me. Add to that, Cassie as Stinger will go no where because that role in the universe is being occupied by Nadia, when Cassie already had a fan base and now will likely just be relegated to her father's supporting cast. No thanks.

[Tony Stark]

Norman Osborn. I loved him till he died and even after his ressurection he was fine by me, but nowadays the character is so overused and boring. The symbiote shit is...ah forget it, what a cluster'###'

I still think Norman Osborn is a great villain. I agree with you about this symbiote non sense.

[Exciter]

Like others have said, I try to keep the mentality that there is no such thing as bad characters, just bad writers and bad angles to show the characters. Not every character is for every fan, so while I personally can't stand someone like the Punisher or Deadpool, I'm not going to say I hate them just because they aren't my cup of tea.

That being said, if I never have to read another story involving Nadia Pym or Van Dyne or whatever, I'll be a much happier person. She's a character created for movie synergy, which I could be okay if done well, and to me it's just not at all. Making her Hank's secret child, giving her Natasha's background, and taking a personality I find endearing with Kamala and cranking it up to 11 just aggravates the hell out of me. Then she's put on titles I was enjoying and have characters I typically like tell me how great she is, which really does her no favors with me. Add to that, Cassie as Stinger will go no where because that role in the universe is being occupied by Nadia, when Cassie already had a fan base and now will likely just be relegated to her father's supporting cast. No thanks.

Fully agreed. The character doesn’t even fulfill movie synergy purposes, as she has a different name and personality. The personality, of course, makes no sense given her background. Nadia needs to go, preferably after being revealed not to actually be Hank’s daughter.

[Frontier]

Like others have said, I try to keep the mentality that there is no such thing as bad characters, just bad writers and bad angles to show the characters. Not every character is for every fan, so while I personally can't stand someone like the Punisher or Deadpool, I'm not going to say I hate them just because they aren't my cup of tea.

That being said, if I never have to read another story involving Nadia Pym or Van Dyne or whatever, I'll be a much happier person. She's a character created for movie synergy, which I could be okay if done well, and to me it's just not at all. Making her Hank's secret child, giving her Natasha's background, and taking a personality I find endearing with Kamala and cranking it up to 11 just aggravates the hell out of me. Then she's put on titles I was enjoying and have characters I typically like tell me how great she is, which really does her no favors with me. Add to that, Cassie as Stinger will go no where because that role in the universe is being occupied by Nadia, when Cassie already had a fan base and now will likely just be relegated to her father's supporting cast. No thanks.

I'll be honest, it's really hard for me to muster any enthusiasm or interest when Hope "it's about darn time" Van Dyne is involved in something.