How would you do an "Ultimate" DC Universe?

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Batman is alright and WW is interesting but a bit muddled because you are squashing three different franchises but A- for effort.

The best way to do a new ultimate universe is to restart the Wildstorm or Milestone universe.

[baycitybomber]

More than an Ultimate Universe with most of the same characters, D.C. needs a place where fully new characters can take over older ones. I've been thinking about it, but beyond the main heroes, D.C. sucks at cultivating new characters, especially non-White ones (and I say this as a white heterosexual dude, aka the Western World Average Joe) : where are its Kamala Khan, Miles Morales, Amadeus Cho etc ? Ir rather bad because while older character will almost always manage to reach new générations, you simply can't make them relevant to today's issues without twisting them into shapes they can't work with.

I don't have access to the numbers to back me up but I do get the impression Marvel has more characters at the forefront at any given time because they rely on team titles much more than DC does. DC has the various Justice League titles that have to feature Batman in order to sell or the "families" (Batfam, Arrowfam, etc) that overly limit which characters can appear in a solo title. If you want to introduce a new character at DC, you have to add them to one of the families to make them stick, otherwise there's just not enough popular team books outside of TT and JL that can absorb them. Sure, DC had quality runs on team books back in the day (Ostrander's Suicide Squad, etc) but SS in itself doesn't really have a loyal following the same way TT or the X-Men do. I applaud DC's recently introduced team titles but I have my doubts about them gaining a longtime following and being able to serve as a springboard for new characters in the future.

[Mutant God]

The Sandman - Soldier Wesley Dodds uses his gas guns to battle terrorism and leads his own team called Suicide Squad who are soldiers who volunteered to go on dangerous missions. Thanks to a battle with terrorist Ra's al Ghul, Wesley died but Ras threw his nemesis and former colleague into the Lazarus Pit to show him the Pit's power and Wesley has disturbing dreams about future crimes and terrorist attacks which gives a connection to Dream and Death (The Endless and maybe this universes' version of the Seven Enemies of Man).

Villains:
Ra's al Ghul - David Cain is the leader of the terrorist cult League of Assassins and a former soldier who found himself a higher purpose in joining the LoA.

Deathstroke - A soldier and former friend of Sandman who betrayed his teammates and led them into a trap killing all but Wesley for a big reward. Joe "Slade" Wilson decides to use his top ranking skills as a soldier to become a big time mercenary who clashes with the Sandman.

KGBeast - Communist assassin with got cybernetic implants after a battle with Sandman.

Deadshot - A former member of Sandman's Suicide Squad who was kicked off the team by Wesley for almost sacrificing a group of people to complete the mission.

China White - Chinese gangster who deals with drugs and trafficking




Also as a little fun project I decided to do the Wonder Twins' god powers with gods of different cultures:

Captain Wonder:
Sabazios (Flight) - Voodoo
Hanuman (Strength/Courage) - Hindu
Aramazd (Stamina) - Armenian
Zeus (Power/Leadership) - Greek
Amun (Speed) - Egyptian
Mahamayrui (Wisdom) - Buddhist

Wonder Woman:
Shakti (Power) - Hindu
Hathor (Love) - Egyptian
Athena (Wisdom) - Greek
Zorya (Flight) - Slavic
Andarta (Strength) - Celtic
Mielikki (Healing) - Buddhist

[Carabas]

KGBeast - Communist assassin

What year is this taking place in?

[Incognito]

Earth One is the equivalent of Marvel's Ultimate Universe but I also see Batman: The Telltale Series as the Ultimate version for his universe. Since, it shows a younger Bruce Wayne who just started as a superhero not too long ago, there was some twists and turns such as Lady Arkham/Vickie Vale and Thomas and Martha Wayne. If I were doing an Ultimate Universe for the DC Universe, I would use The Telltale series with a small mix with Arkham Origins and Batman: Year One as a basis for Batman.

Cast

- Batman/Bruce Wayne
- Alfred Pennyworth
- Lucius Fox
- Commissioner Jim Gordan
- Harvey Bullock

- Carmine Falcone (and family)
- Sal Maroni (and family)
- Oswald Copplepott

[Mutant God]

What year is this taking place in?

2000s, Sandman is a veteran hero who has been battling KGBeast for a long time plus with comic book timing and villainous organizations you could condense things so that Nazis and Communist are still around with Islamic terrorist as a threat, all making super villains and spies for heroes to fight.


Small ideas:
Green Lantern - Alan Scott is a gay divorce father who wants to prove to his young children that hes a hero and ends up becoming a Green Lantern. Alan finds the ring on a dismembered alien arm and after picking it up the ring takes him to its former owner Hal Jordan. Jordan lost his arm after his mentor, Sinestro, betray the Green Lanterns to create his own Lantern Corps and took off Hal's ring arm to show fear into Hal and to show how far he was willing to go for his goals. Alan convinces Hal to train him on how to use Hal's ring and be hero. (I was thinking about Alan Scott being Sinestro's mentor who betrays his teacher to set up his own Corps and then have Alan teach Hal how to use Alan's ring but I guess gay father hero is a bit better complex story to tell)

Villain:
Thorn - Alan's bitter ex-wife whos split personality and powers causes her to attack Alan and manipulate their children into hating him and also emotionally abuse the kids.


Flash - Scientist Jay Garrick is transformed into a speedster after time travelling speedster Eobard Thawne lost his powers and manipulated the government into creating a device that can transfer a portion of the Speed Force into a person.

Villains:
Cold Crew - A group of ice theme villains led by Captain Cold


So far thats my Justice Society: Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Captain Wonder (Batson), Sandman, Green Lantern (Scott), and Flash (Garrick)

[Thor-Ul]

One thing to keep in mind is the purpose of Ultimate Marvel. A lot of the ideas are stuff I'm interested in but they also feel very nostalgia bait. Ultimate Marvel was an attempt by Marvel to "update" their characters for the modern world, with a clean break from continuity, and VERY different characterizations in some cases. An "Ultimate" DC would be focused on the same "update" for the characters. Personally I'd borrow from Ultimate Marvel's reduced power levels. Everyone is at their Golden Age power levels, so no Superman juggling planets, no Batgod master of preptime, etc.

That is only a part of the objetive of the Ultimate line. The Ultimate line was created with the ultimate goal (pun intended) to translate the Marvel charactes to movies, by selling the ideas to Hollywood. Just look how it was built:

The firsts launches were the IP made to coincide with the characters who were in movie projects (in filming or under developmentin that moment circa 2000, 2002) such as X-men (movie in 2000) and Spider-Man (movie in 2002). After that they launch Fantastic four (Ultimate series in 2004 and first movie in 2005). That set the foundations to launch the Ultimates (called in that way to avoid any connection to that "other Avengers" movie, 1998), whose two cinematic hyper realistic looking series, run from 2002 to 2007, just before the launch of the first Iron man movie (2008) and the beggining of the MCU. It was just after that, the Ultimate universe loss any direction because their main objetive was reached and its utility was outlived and it does not really mattered what happened there anyway. From that point, any direction was possible and it came with other ideas as Miles Morales and the Maker. From there was a fall from grace throught Ultimatum/ Ultimate End/Cataclism/whatever becoming a lifeless carcass of its former self until its final closure in 2014, in a similar fashion as many other universes/imprints before It left one or two final brights spots but as a whole, the line was dead. Not only all the ideas and writers were transported to the main Marvel univere line, but you can see the consequence in Mark Millar, writer of the Ultimates,who became the comic book writer whose ideas are always in fast track to become movies (Wanted, Kingsmen), because that is what he does, starting with Marvel.

The point of this description is than the Ultimate line was not only a reboot/start from the beggining/update on the characters, as was sell to people.It was not something new. It was done before, as was for example, Crisis in the Infinite earths or even the New52. We could argue if the New52 served as a starting point for the universe of the DC DTV animated movies or not, making it the most close to the Ultimate universe seen until now. But I insist, the Marvel Ultimate imprint was something different with a specific objetive beyond only the comics themselves. Any new idea about any possible reboot for the DC characters would see as a rewrite just as had seen before, something than could be either an elseworld or a self contaiment OGN, in their own pocket of reality.

As RepHope said, there are a lot of interesting ideas than sound good but lack the objetive of the Ultimate line had in mind. And considering than DC already belong to a media corporation than included movie and tv studios, the need of an Ultimate line with the same objetives would be redundant. But not less fun, from a creative point of view.

Sorry for the distraction on the topic. This is a "why" of the Ultimate line, not a "how", but I needed to say it.

But back on topic, I would do an update on the characters in a more hard sci-fi feeling, same as Warren Ellis is doing in The Wild Storm, with a Superman ignorant of his alien origins, a more pulp inspired Batman and an inmortal Wonder Woman, with the same feeling of everything is connected.

My two cents.

[Thor-Ul]

Funny. Earth 2 was essentially DC's Ultimate Universe Earth during the New 52.

It just fell apart VERY quickly.

Once Taylor took over it was basically one long drawn out Ultimatum. And then Wilson took over and it got so much worse.

It's rare to get to see a book start with SUCH promise and just quickly turn to trash. So many good ideas started off with and just...tossed. It was almost comical by Society how many contradictions were being made.

Like Jay Garrick who was empowered by the powers of the dying god Apollo (yeah...). Or describing Alan Scott's ring as Oan tech (yikes).

It was a tragic waste.

So many golden-age villains could have been revitalized. So many stories could have been told.

Earth 2 was an interesting experiment and a missed oportunity. When you see than in comics than an universe is going in that path, you know its days are counted. (It happened to Ultimate marvel, Wildstorm, 2099, NewUniverse and so). I think its a trope already.

[superduperman]

Each character would get an origin mini called Origins. So you'd get Superman Origins, Batman Origins, Wonder Woman Origins. That sort of thing. The trinity would be first.

Superman Origins: I've had this idea for a while now that Krypton is destroyed by a weapon left over from a war. Jor-El finds it and warns the Kryptonian government but they don't listen. It turns out they've known about it for a while now and built a ship to save themselves. Jor-El decides to steal the ship and save his family. But just before it can break atmosphere, the council gets word of his actions and shoot out the star drive. Jor-El puts Kal in an escape pod and it's pre-programmed for Earth. The star drive blows up and both Jor-El and Lara are killed. Not long after, the planet blows up.

Kal's ship lands on Earth where it is found by the Kents. He has all of his powers from day one but they are at a low ebb. So he can fly as a toddler but only for about 30 seconds before he floats back down like a balloon. As he gets older, his powers grow as well. So by the time he's about 8 he can lift the tractor over his head and fly for about 30 minutes before he floats back down. By the time he graduates high school, he is at full power.

He goes to college and becomes a freelance journalist. While in some country that's in the middle of a civil war, he is forced to use his powers to save his fellow journalists. That's when he decides to use his powers openly. He goes back home and Martha makes him the costume. The Daily Planet is about to get bought up by Morgan Edge, who wants to turn it into a Daily Mail type tabloid. Perry has threatened to quit if that happens. Clark gets the story on Superman and this buys Perry the freedom to continue to run the paper the way he wants. But the spats with Morgan Edge and Perry will be a constant source of tension in future issues. Lois hates Clark in the sense that she hates everybody and sees any other reporter as competition. The ongoing series will be about Clark trying to soften her up.

Batman Origins: Bruce's parents are killed when he's 8 years old leaving a theater. The gunmen that killed them tries to kill him too but he runs out into traffic before he gets the chance. Bruce is nearly hit by a car. He's in shock. He spends much of his childhood angry and learning martial arts to cope. Alfred is his legal guardian and tries to bring in Leslie Tompkins to talk to him but no one can get through. At about 13 he sneaks out and goes into the city to fight crime where he beats up some drug dealers. He has a ski mask and a metal bar. Just before one of them shoots him, they all get arrested by the police. Alfred has to come down and bail him out of jail. A young Lieutenant Gordon tells Bruce he never wants to see him in there again. Alfred then realizes that he can't help Bruce and sets him up with an old friend from MI6.

Ten years later Bruce comes back to the city more determined than ever to fight crime. He goes out in a ski mask again with his newfound training but this time it there are no cops to help him. They're almost all on the take. Bruce is nearly killed his first night out and barely makes it back to the manor. He sneaks into the study window all bloody. This is reminiscent of the scene in Year One where he looks at the bust of his father. He doesn't know how to make them afraid of him. That's when a bat flies in through the open window that Bruce snuck into. That's when he decides to become a bat. Meanwhile the red hood gang is running around the city attacking people at random just to create chaos.

The red hood gang are mostly a bunch of teenagers and runaways who wear clothe masks that cover their faces. Bruce figures out that their base of operations is the old Ace Chemical factory. Their leader is a man who wears a red hood also and speaks at them from a scaffold above a chemical vat. Think the movie The Warriors and the meeting of the gangs. When Bruce raids that factory as Batman, the leader falls into the chemical vat despite Bruce's attempts to save him.

Wonder Woman Origins: Diana is over 3000 years old and is the greatest athlete among the Amazons. Though she doesn't know why. One day, she sees something floating in the ocean and swims out to see what it is. It's a man on what's left of his plane. She brings him ashore and uses Amazonian magic to heal him. Hiding him from her mother. When her mother finds out, she orders him killed. But Diana convinces her mother not to and says that this is a perfect opportunity to engage the outside world. Hyppolyta disagrees but agrees to spare his life and return him home. Artemis is assigned the task but Diana objects. So to see who gets to escort him home, Diana and Artemis fight in an arena. Diana wins of course. That is when Hyppolyta tells her the truth of her origins.

In this version she has access to the powers of all the gods on top of her normal powers. So if she needs to, she can shoot lightning or control the sea. Hades is a rich weapons manufacturer who is enraged when he learns that one of the Amazons has decided to come out of hiding. He hates the Amazons because he sees them as a means to punish Zeus for banishing him from Olympus. He uses Diana as a means to get access to Themyscira.

The second year would be others like Flash, Green Lantern, Martian Manhunter, and maybe Green Arrow and Black Canary.

[Carabas]

One thing to keep in mind is the purpose of Ultimate Marvel. A lot of the ideas are stuff I'm interested in but they also feel very nostalgia bait. Ultimate Marvel was an attempt by Marvel to "update" their characters for the modern world, with a clean break from continuity, and VERY different characterizations in some cases. An "Ultimate" DC would be focused on the same "update" for the characters. Personally I'd borrow from Ultimate Marvel's reduced power levels. Everyone is at their Golden Age power levels, so no Superman juggling planets, no Batgod master of preptime, etc.

They just powered down the planet buster level characters like the Hulk and Thor a bit.
Others like Captain America and Colossus got a big power-up.

Most stayed more or less the same. The biggest difference is that the Ultimate characters didn't have a 50+ year old library to draw excessive feats from.

[Sacred Knight]

BRIAN MICHAEL BENDIS

big weekend! wrestled the first HUGE script for a big NEW @DCComics project. it took months. new characters, old characters. new worlds being built. old worlds being revisited for the first time in forever. cats and dogs living together. mass hysteria. #lovemyjob

....You never know.

[superduperman]

....You never know.

Could this be the "reboot" project that we heard about circa 2020? "Old worlds being revisited". Wonder if that means a return to the old multiverse. Maybe a return of some of the pre-Crisis universes like the original Earths 1 and 2?

[Sacred Knight]

It sure sounds like all the things we might see in a Crisis, that's for sure. But then again would it make sense for Bendis to be writing a draft for the project when Snyder is clearly the guy leading there? I dunno, collaboration is certainly possible. Either way if this is a Crisis or at least Crisis-like project, its the best chance for what we've been discussing in this thread to come to fruition, among other things.

[Thor-Ul]

Maybe the aftermath of No justice? Or Legion of Super-heroes?

[Sacred Knight]

FWIW, I had replied with a tweet theorizing a secondary Earth, with a similar M.O. of the New 52, and he liked the reply.