Superheroes and their Families

[Restingvoice]

Its not unprecedented at all. Its not even the most egregious recent example. Jon hijacked the Superman title for nearly two years. Jason took focus from WW for about two arcs. Jon is just more popular than Jason so it doesn't get called out nearly as much. Which is ironic because they're both pretty similar in their one-dimensional depictions, albeit a different dimension for each. Jason has yet to grow much beyond the "cocky new guy", while Jon is a Mary Sue.

How is Jon a Mary Sue?

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Its not unprecedented at all. Its not even the most egregious recent example. Jon hijacked the Superman title for nearly two years. Jason took focus from WW for about two arcs. Jon is just more popular than Jason so it doesn't get called out nearly as much. Which is ironic because they're both pretty similar in their one-dimensional depictions, albeit a different dimension for each. Jason has yet to grow much beyond the "cocky new guy", while Jon is a Mary Sue.

Also, Dawn was not a bad idea. It panned out just fine as season 5 was perhaps the best season of Buffy ever. The character could be annoying, but she was designed to be, she was a pre-teen kid meant to clash with her older sister. The storyline, the idea behind it, worked great. If anything, its an example of the idea working, not an example of it not.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the later seasons of Buffy. Once she graduated from high school, I think the show lost its way, but your mileage may vary.

As for Jon Kent/Superboy, I can understand how some could see him as taking focus away from Superman, but since Clark's evolution into a father is the keystone of his current character arc, I would argue that the focus on Jon is simply an extension of Superman's own story arc. However, if you don't care for the idea of Superman being a father, then I can see how any attention paid to Jon would be viewed as drawing focus away from Superman.

Perhaps that is the plan with Jason. Diana's always been an only child. Maybe they're trying to show her the difficulties of being part of a family by giving her a dodgy sibling who's always getting in trouble. Unfortunately, the complete lack of interest readers appear to have in Jason has made this entire plot-line look like a waste of pages that could otherwise be devoted to developing female characters in a book that was primarily designed to showcase female empowerment.

The whole idea just strikes me as tone deaf.

[Sacred Knight]

Fair enough, respect your differing opinion of course.

I don't think the idea behind Jason is bad, and still think there's hope for him, I just generally think that a new supporting character is never going to get off on the right foot by overshadowing the star. Getting new supporting characters over is hard enough without giving them a handicap of easy resentment.

[Frontier]

We'll have to agree to disagree on the later seasons of Buffy. Once she graduated from high school, I think the show lost its way, but your mileage may vary.

As for Jon Kent/Superboy, I can understand how some could see him as taking focus away from Superman, but since Clark's evolution into a father is the keystone of his current character arc, I would argue that the focus on Jon is simply an extension of Superman's own story arc. However, if you don't care for the idea of Superman being a father, then I can see how any attention paid to Jon would be viewed as drawing focus away from Superman.

Perhaps that is the plan with Jason. Diana's always been an only child. Maybe they're trying to show her the difficulties of being part of a family by giving her a dodgy sibling who's always getting in trouble. Unfortunately, the complete lack of interest readers appear to have in Jason has made this entire plot-line look like a waste of pages that could otherwise be devoted to developing female characters in a book that was primarily designed to showcase female empowerment.

The whole idea just strikes me as tone deaf.

Seriously, with how things are with the Wonder Girls at the moment, I think the last thing the title needs is to be wasting page space on some dude.

[Sacred Knight]

How is Jon a Mary Sue?

Nothing comes as a challenge to him. He's perfect at everything. Makes lots of friends, has good control of his power (the one potentially interesting thing about him that they blew early on by destroying any sort of difficulty to his adaptation to being a young superhero); hell he's even stated to have the potential to be stronger than his dad. There's absolutely nothing about his life, be it his normal life as a kid or his superheroing, that has been remotely difficult since his inception. Tomasi wrote him from the get-go as the Golden Boy with the silver spoon in his mouth, basically. I blame mostly Tomasi because despite Jurgens creating him, Tomasi ended up (over)using him the most.

[Frontier]

Nothing comes as a challenge to him. He's perfect at everything. Makes lots of friends, has good control of his power, is stated to have the potential to be stronger than his dad. There's absolutely nothing about his life that is remotely difficult.

Being friends with Damian Wayne ?

Although I think we've seen enough instances where he didn't have exact control of his powers, to where Clark needed to step in and help him control them, to say he's not perfect at everything and certainly he has experienced some difficult times with his family.

I also can't say he has that many friends from what we've seen of his school life. It seems limited to just Damian, Kathy, and maybe Maya/Nobody.

[Sacred Knight]

I'd argue even becoming friends with Damian was easy for him. It took little time at all for the naturally reclusive and combative Wayne to take to him.

And the only time I remember him seeing him having natural issues with his powers is when he couldn't fly, and I think he's gotten over that. Everything else he basically got one lesson from his dad and he was good to go. I understand many will disagree but I just think he's been quite poorly written during the Rebirth era (at least by Tomasi, who was, despite Jurgens creating him, his main caretaker). I think he skates by far more off just the allure of who his parents are rather than who he is thus far as a character.

[Jackalope89]

I'd argue even becoming friends with Damian was easy for him. It took little time at all for the naturally reclusive and combative Wayne to take to him.

And the only time I remember him seeing him having bad control of his powers is when he couldn't fly, and I think he's gotten over that. Everything else he basically got one lesson from his dad and he was good to go. I understand many will disagree but I just think he's been quite poorly written during the Rebirth era (at least by Tomasi, who was, despite Jurgens creating him, his main caretaker). I think he skates by far more off just the allure of who his parents are rather than who he is thus far as a character.

Someone hasn't been following their topic very well.

Jon accidentally killed his pet cat that had been taken by a hawk with heat vision, and that was the first time we see him have difficulty with his powers. In Trinity, he accidentally blasted Bruce and Diana in the first arc. Just a little bit ago, future crazy Tim Drake made him almost go supernova and explode. But was only saved thanks to the combined efforts of future Connor, Cassie Sandsmark, Bart Allen, and a more sane Tim helping his father.

[Sacred Knight]

If I'm guilty of not following everything to the T its only Super Sons. That info I only got second hand. As such, I thought the supernova thing was caused by outside forces, not just his own control problems, but if I'm wrong there I'll own up though. But I've followed things quite well otherwise. Case in point, those early examples from Superman and the one from Trinity? One, the growing pains were brief and went nowhere. He had an issue one issue and it was gone the next. Second and most importantly, all of it was completely rendered moot in Black Dawn. That story reveals that the accident with Goldy and the like was not due to a natural lack of control, he was being screwed with by Manchester Black, Kathy and her grandfather the whole time.

That's just how I feel. I know it doesn't go over well here but my firm opinion is that outside of his pedigree of being Superman and Lois Lane's son, there's virtually nothing dynamic or interesting about him yet as a character. Maybe Bendis can change that. Hopefully someone can.

[Frontier]

I'd argue even becoming friends with Damian was easy for him. It took little time at all for the naturally reclusive and combative Wayne to take to him.

I don't think it was easy for him, especially with how violent their early encounters were, but I think their relationship grew much like the way the relationship between their dads grew...even if it still isn't an easy relationship.

That's just how I feel. I know it doesn't go over well here but my firm opinion is that outside of his pedigree of being Superman and Lois Lane's son, there's virtually nothing dynamic or interesting about him yet as a character. Maybe Bendis can change that. Hopefully someone can.

I feel like he's dynamic and interesting in much the same way his dad is, with little bits of his mom thrown in there.

[Robanker]

I don't think it was easy for him, especially with how violent their early encounters were, but I think their relationship grew much like the way the relationship between their dads grew...even if it still isn't an easy relationship.

I feel like he's dynamic and interesting in much the same way his dad is, with little bits of his mom thrown in there.

I imagine as he gets older, he'll inherit his mother's sharp tongue and be a bit snarkier as Superboy to differentiate himself from his dad, but like both his parents, he'll always be a good person at heart.

[Frontier]

I imagine as he gets older, he'll inherit his mother's sharp tongue and be a bit snarkier as Superboy to differentiate himself from his dad, but like both his parents, he'll always be a good person at heart.

Agreed .

[Güicho]

Can anyone think of characters where the title hero is almost superseded by a secondary character?

Well if you look at the GL Corps as a huge "family"
At the time Hal Jordan and the Corps, John Stewart and Mosaic, and Guy Gardner Warrior, all had their own titles, with arguably middle of the road sales, and an editor looking for a shocking sales bumping event to rival Death of Superman.
As far as established " characters superseded by a secondary character"
To shockingly introduce Kyle Rayner and have him be the only Green Lantern:
- Hal Jordan - was turned insane and killed.
- John Stewart - crippled in a wheelchair (first his body then his mind))
- Guy Gardner - de-power(ringed) and turned into a mutant? LOL!
- The entire GL Corps - killed
- Even (non Corps) Alan Scott for the first time was forced to surrender the name Green Lantern so Kyle could have the name to himself
-And his daughter jade, born with the powers innate was stripped of her powers too! LOL!

This tends to be a desperate editor seeking any shocking buzz tactic to get a temporary sales bump.

[joanorm]

I also thought of Supergirl but she was in the Superman stories once or twice before starring in her own title (via Action then Adventure then her own title). But I can't think of another character's story being taken over this way.

[joanorm]

They could have revived Nubia her sister from the 1970s. It would have worked better for me and it might be the basis for some interesting debates about Amazons and diversity.