Is "Image" dead?

[JFP]

Please. TWD is their best selling book but even without it theyd still rank as NA's third biggest publisher. Sales on individual titles are down across the board, not just Image, but theres also way more product pushed out these days. The markets just diversified.

He did use "probably" be dead by now. He did not say definitely be dead by now.

He definitely has a point. Back in the day, Image could sell hundreds of thousands, even millions. Today, just selling 4,000 is a blessing for an Image book. When you compare current Image to old Image, no, Image is not healthy. When you compare current Image to other current comic publishers, then, yes, Image is healthy, by today's standards. However, the loss of Walking Dead would be devastating to Image. It's not healthy for a comic company when the loss of one title has a negative impact.

But it just wasn't the sales. It was the stories. 90s Image had this gutsy fun to it I can't find in most Image titles today. Yes, some will say the books were garbage. But they were good garbage.

[capuga]

However, the loss of Walking Dead would be devastating to Image. It's not healthy for a comic company when the loss of one title has a negative impact.

Considering all the Walking Dead money goes pretty much straight into Kirkman's and the other creators' pockets as a creator owned title and not to Image Comics (they take a flat fee regardless of sales), I don't think the loss of the Walking Dead would really impact Image Comics all that much. The fees on the trades are set up a little differently and the Walking Dead sells a lot of trades so there would be some impact there, but by and large, Image Comics does not (and is designed not to) profit from the sales of the comics it publishes.

[JFP]

Considering all the Walking Dead money goes pretty much straight into Kirkman's and the other creators' pockets as a creator owned title and not to Image Comics (they take a flat fee regardless of sales), I don't think the loss of the Walking Dead would really impact Image Comics all that much. The fees on the trades are set up a little differently and the Walking Dead sells a lot of trades so there would be some impact there, but by and large, Image Comics does not (and is designed not to) profit from the sales of the comics it publishes.

I wasn't talking entirely about profit.

It's like this: a guy who owns a building rents to McDonalds and lesser known businesses. The guy doesn't make any money except from renters fees. But if McDonalds leaves, the guy loses money. The loss of McDonalds means fewer customers coming to his building. Even though he only lost revenue from rentals and he still has other renters, the loss of McDonalds means fewer traffic from customers. The customers used to come in for McDonalds. But they also checked out the other businesses. Without McDonalds customers, that means fewer customers for the other businesses. With decreased revenue from the other businesses, they might leave. As a result, the renter looks at the possibility of the other businesses leaving.

With TWD, a customer picks up an issue, likes it, and then thinks, "This is great. Who publishes this comic? Image Comics, huh. I'm gonna check the other Image titles and see if they are as good as TWD."

That's how it works with comic readers. They get into one title then check and see if there are other good titles from the comic publishers. I know many people who got into Image Comics simply thru TWD. Same thing with Invincible. Same thing with Savage Dragon. I used to be into comics but stopped at the end of the 90s. Back in 2005, I got back into comics but it was only the big 2 for a while. Then I saw SD as I was browsing my local store and thought, "I remember this green guy. I used to watch his cartoon. Lemme buy this comic for shits and giggles." From there, I started reading other titles. If there was no SD comic, it's doubtful I woulda bought other Image titles.

So even though Image makes zero profit off TWD, many people have got into Image thru TWD.

Without a popular title like TWD to draw people to Image Comics, what other title does Image have of equal or greater pulling power?

[Green Knight]

I wonder about this from time to time. Did all those characters Liefeld created just fade away into limbo? Because he had a metric ton of them. Two different Youngblood teams (I preferred Team Youngblood, actually, over the main one he worked on), Brigade, and some other team book that I can't remember. Not to mention solo characters like Prophet (Garbage character, really. Generic Liefeld at his worst). I wasn't even sure if Spawn was still being published these days, either. I can't believe Larsen is still plugging away on Savage Dragon. What a cruddy character and title, but he's apparently decided to tie himself creatively to that character for all time.

[numberthirty]

Without a popular title like TWD to draw people to Image Comics, what other title does Image have of equal or greater pulling power?

Politely, you are missing the point.

The "Black Monday Murders" thread could probably shed some light onto things. Heck, the "Kill Or Be Killed" thread...

[JFP]

Politely, you are missing the point.

The "Black Monday Murders" thread could probably shed some light onto things. Heck, the "Kill Or Be Killed" thread...

Those two comics just started. Black Monday has less than 10 issues. KOBK has less than 24. TWD has been around for years and has proven to readers that it can stay on schedule and is most likely to be around for a long time. Neither BMM nor KOBK can say such a thing.

I'm not talking about the quality of the stories. I'm asking is there an Image Comic that rivals TWD in terms of popularity, longevity, consistently getting issues out on time with no hiatuses (either planned or unplanned), and has at least half the number of issues TWD has?

[numberthirty]

Those two comics just started. Black Monday has less than 10 issues. KOBK has less than 24. TWD has been around for years and has proven to readers that it can stay on schedule and is most likely to be around for a long time. Neither BMM nor KOBK can say such a thing.

I'm not talking about the quality of the stories. I'm asking is there an Image Comic that rivals TWD in terms of popularity, longevity, consistently getting issues out on time with no hiatuses (either planned or unplanned), and has at least half the number of issues TWD has?

Again...

Politely, you are still missing the point.

You are framing things in "Standard Operating Procedure: The Big Two" terms. The strength of Image is that it can allow creators to completely ignore that nonsense.

"Can They Say Such A Thing?"... Not the question.

"Why Should They Ever Have To?"

Now, that's a question worth considering.

[JFP]

Again...

Politely, you are still missing the point.

You are framing things in "Standard Operating Procedure: The Big Two" terms. The strength of Image is that it can allow creators to completely ignore that nonsense.

"Can They Say Such A Thing?"... Not the question.

"Why Should They Ever Have To?"

Now, that's a question worth considering.

I thought the point of this thread was old Image compared to current Image. Not creators, per se.

The quote, which you took outta context, was about this: TWD draws people who generally don't read Image comics to check out other titles from Image. A guy who doesn't read any Image Comics reads TWD, likes it, and thinks, "Hey, this is a good comic. Who publishes it? Image Comics, huh. Maybe I should check out other Image Comics cuz they might be as good as TWD." Same thing happens with a guy who reads Invincible. Same thing happened with me when I read SD.

Comic creators do benefit from the pulling power of TWD to get non-Image readers to read more Image Comics. Image benefits too. I asked, "If TWD left, is there a comic with equal pulling power?" and you answered with a couple comics that are a fraction as popular TWD. So you didn't answer my question. That's okay. You're not required to answer my question.

Image Comics and their creators should indeed be worried if TWD decides to leave. That's the problem. They shouldn't be worried about one book leaving. Furthermore, this illustrates the point the other poster made. He pointed out when Image were selling hundreds of thousands or millions of comics, they didn't have to worry about the disappearance of one comic. In that regard, old Image definitely had things better than current Image.

[numberthirty]

Comic creators do benefit from the pulling power of TWD to get non-Image readers to read more Image Comics. Image benefits too. I asked, "If TWD left, is there a comic with equal pulling power?" and you answered with a couple comics that are a fraction as popular TWD. So you didn't answer my question. That's okay. You're not required to answer my question.

Image Comics and their creators should indeed be worried if TWD decides to leave. That's the problem. They shouldn't be worried about one book leaving. Furthermore, this illustrates the point the other poster made. He pointed out when Image were selling hundreds of thousands or millions of comics, they didn't have to worry about the disappearance of one comic. In that regard, old Image definitely had things better than current Image.

As for what's in blue, the way Image operates makes it a non-issue. If you want to try to create a scenario where it actually is an issue, your call.

As for what is in green, that is like saying that Merge Records will be in really big trouble after Arcade Fire left the label because at one point bands could sell more records. That's not what actually happened when that band left the label.

[numberthirty]

I asked, "If TWD left, is there a comic with equal pulling power?" and you answered with a couple comics that are a fraction as popular TWD. So you didn't answer my question. That's okay. You're not required to answer my question.

As for that question, I gave you the correct answer.

What you see as a fraction is actually "Because those titles have an engaged fan base that can support the title(even when no one know when the final arc of The Black Monday Murders will be on shelves), the amount of copies that The Walking Dead sells is a non-issue."

[icctrombone]

I wonder about this from time to time. Did all those characters Liefeld created just fade away into limbo? Because he had a metric ton of them. Two different Youngblood teams (I preferred Team Youngblood, actually, over the main one he worked on), Brigade, and some other team book that I can't remember. Not to mention solo characters like Prophet (Garbage character, really. Generic Liefeld at his worst). I wasn't even sure if Spawn was still being published these days, either. I can't believe Larsen is still plugging away on Savage Dragon. What a cruddy character and title, but he's apparently decided to tie himself creatively to that character for all time.

Savage Dragon is one of the most unpredictable comics you could buy. That's good thing. In the big 2, you know nothing is really going to happen to their main money makers. Even Rhodey ( War Machine) was brought back from the dead, but in the SD universe, dead is truly dead.

[JFP]

As for that question, I gave you the correct answer.

What you see as a fraction is actually "Because those titles have an engaged fan base that can support the title(even when no one know when the final arc of The Black Monday Murders will be on shelves), the amount of copies that The Walking Dead sells is a non-issue."

Dude, I asked, "If TWD left, is there a comic with equal pulling power?"

You named Kill or Be Killed and Black Monday Murders.

TWD sold 73,978 units in April.
KOBK sold 16,240 units in April.
BMM sold 0 units in April.

TWD = 77,407 units sold in Feb.
KOBK = 16,584 units sold in Feb.
BMM = 12,568 units sold in Feb.

In both months, KOBK and BMM didn't sell 1/3rd as many comics combined as TWD.

Furthermore, I've been talking about if this has been good for IMAGE COMICS. I'm not talking about what the creators think. I only care about Image Comics in this discussion. Image Comics. That's all. Quit talking about creators opinion because that's not what I'm asking.

TWD has the power to pull non-Image readers into reading other Image Comics. I said no other comic has this power. Yet you still insist that these two comics that sell less than 1/3rd combined as TWD have the power to fill TWD's shoes in terms of reader popularity among Image Comics. How does that work? Question answered: it doesn't. 2 comics with small and engaged fanbases do not have the power to fill the shoes of a comic title known to even non-comic book readers.

[icctrombone]

Also, I think Image is essentially a publishing house and doesn't aspire to be a shared universe anymore. It has evolved from its beginnings mainly because it didn't have one guiding voice. Each of the original 7 could do what they wanted and that killed any chance of a shared universe being a permanent thing.

[Dark-Flux]

Dude, I asked, "If TWD left, is there a comic with equal pulling power?"

You named Kill or Be Killed and Black Monday Murders.

TWD sold 73,978 units in April.
KOBK sold 16,240 units in April.
BMM sold 0 units in April.

TWD = 77,407 units sold in Feb.
KOBK = 16,584 units sold in Feb.
BMM = 12,568 units sold in Feb.

In both months, KOBK and BMM didn't sell 1/3rd as many comics combined as TWD.

Furthermore, I've been talking about if this has been good for IMAGE COMICS. I'm not talking about what the creators think. I only care about Image Comics in this discussion. Image Comics. That's all. Quit talking about creators opinion because that's not what I'm asking.

TWD has the power to pull non-Image readers into reading other Image Comics. I said no other comic has this power. Yet you still insist that these two comics that sell less than 1/3rd combined as TWD have the power to fill TWD's shoes in terms of reader popularity among Image Comics. How does that work? Question answered: it doesn't. 2 comics with small and engaged fanbases do not have the power to fill the shoes of a comic title known to even non-comic book readers.

There is absolutly no way of knowing the number of readers that crossover from TWD to other Image books and vice verca. This is entirely speculation on your part.

[JFP]

There is absolutly no way of knowing the number of readers that crossover from TWD to other Image books and vice verca. This is entirely speculation on your part.

Where in this thread have I stated there is a way of knowing the number of readers that crossover from TWD? Go ahead. Find it. I'll wait here.

While this fool who puts words in my mouth tries to make himself look stupid, I'll reiterate my point: The leadership at Image are extremely uncomfortable with the idea of TWD cancelling. During the days of old Image, the cancellation of one book didn't make them uncomfortable. Therefore, current Image is not in a healthy position compared to old Image.