X-Men Red #4 Spoilers - We Have a King, a Goddess, and a Gabby

[remydat]

I love you, remydat. And it's for no other reason than you have a knack for explaining to me that which I already know and have openly expressed. I'm aware that writers are going to take liberties. I'm aware that not all writers are going to know about every feat she's ever pulled. That is still not going to stop me from pointing something out that doesn't pay tribute to her most recent upgrades. That hasn't stopped me from enjoying the issue. I'm acknowledging that Storm has shown an increase in her fine control. Yes, my bias is in full effect. I've never denied that. It's the nature of the fandom. Your idea that something needs to be shown consistently over time is something I agree with. People were butthurt that she snatched the air out of someone's lungs when she first did it. Ironically that also happened in a mini that was solely focused on Storm. Now that she's been consistently shown to be able to do it on a whim, people are still butthurt, they just keep it to a minimum. Lol overall I agree with your point. Not every writer is going to remember every feat. But it is highly illogical to expect fans of a character to reject feats that have been given to their faves in stories that were specifically designed for said character. That just sounds ridiculous. And it's even weirder that this needs to be explained.

I am not asking you to reject any feats. My point is simply it's still canon. The canon is Storm screws up sometimes. Again you don't have to like it but it is the canon. The canon right now for example is that Gambit has been fairly incompetent lately. I don't like it. I don't read stories where he botches simple jobs that should be easy for a thief of his caliber but the reality is the end result of those stories is that he botched the job and was portrayed incompetently.

So I don't really care whether you like the story or not. My only point is just like how her upgrades are canon so are her downgrades. How you feel about one or the other is simply a matter of personal preference. Storm may be a Goddess but she is a flawed Goddess who can be hurt by her own powers. I know this because I just read it happen in this issue so it is now officially canon. You are free though to not like it but it doesn't change the reality that it is now canon. It is no more PIS than her originally being given the immunity in the first place when CC or Pak decided she needed it for that particularly story they were writing. Just like the breathing underwater thing was clearly just written by CC for that particular story as well. Outside of their original powers, every character in comics gains and loses powers based on the plot. The only distinction is whether we like it or not.

[rutog98]

I am not asking you to reject any feats. My point is simply it's still canon. The canon is Storm screws up sometimes. Again you don't have to like it but it is the canon. The canon right now for example is that Gambit has been fairly incompetent lately. I don't like it. I don't read stories where he botches simple jobs that should be easy for a thief of his caliber but the reality is the end result of those stories is that he botched the job and was portrayed incompetently.

So I don't really care whether you like the story or not. My only point is just like how her upgrades are canon so are her downgrades. How you feel about one or the other is simply a matter of personal preference. Storm may be a Goddess but she is a flawed Goddess who can be hurt by her own powers. I know this because I just read it happen in this issue so it is now officially canon. You are free though to not like it but it doesn't change the reality that it is now canon.

Nobody argues the way you claim for their favorite characters. Everybody will try and find showings of their characters written at their best to try and discredit lower showings of their favorites. I've been in a ton of versus debates to know this. Heck, when dealing with some fanbases, they will even go so far as to make up feats their character did not accomplish when backed into a corner, or use instances where their favorite character was being boosted by technology or being possessed by a cosmic entity as demonstrations of their favorite character's own power levels. We Storm fans are not doing that. We are simply using the feats given to her in canon. We don't do like other fanbases and use instances where tech of possessions were used to boost her powers. Such strategies are not required as she is just that good all on her own.

[remydat]

1) Storm's immunity has nothing to do with control. It never has, therefore, it has nothing to do with having an off-day. It's an innate aspect of the character that is ever-present and has everything to do with her bond with the universe around her being fully in-tact, and her powers being in full force. For instance, if she went to a brand new world, she would be able to get harmed by the forces of nature there until she became attuned to that planet's lifeforce. Also, if she sustains an injury that affects her mutant power, then she can also be directly harmed by the weather.

2) Gambit is not immune to telepathy, his mind is just hard for them to grab onto. Also, not every writer acknowledges this about the character. However, when written at his best, it should be very difficult to successfully attack his mind. should be very difficult to successfully mind attack.

3) The problem is not that Storm is just happening to have an off day, the issue is some writers will consistently ignore aspects of what she can do just to prop up other characters. For instance, when Storm started out, she had no mental defenses against telepathy. Any and every telepath around could successfully shut her down with a psychic attack. Even Mesmero could do this to her. However, starting at around Uncanny 151-152, Claremont began to build her mental defenses as an aspect of her character development. As he developed her like this, she grew to where no single telepath could hope to overcome her mental defenses (psis like Xavier and Shadow King included could not best Storm). In fact, by the end of his first run, Warskrull, who had the combined psi of Xavier, Psylocke, and Oracle could only slow her down for a while before he acknowledged that she would overcome him. Then, when Jean started to join the roster, all of Storm's mental defenses were abandoned, and all of that development she got over those many years was forgotten.

During the Lobdell/Kelly/Seagle runs, Storm's mental defenses were all but gone. She could barely hold out only the weakest of telepaths (there was one instance where she barely withstood a lowly Morlock telepath). Her indomitable will was not restored until Alan Davis came along and Jean was not on the team at all. Then, afterwards, we got Claremont back who put Storm and Jean on the same team, and he completely ignored Storm's mental defenses. Every mind attack around was able to take Storm down in order to prop up Jean during his tenure. However, once Jean was taken from him and given to Morrison, he not only restored Storm's mental defenses, but gave them a HUGE boost by establishing that she can use the electrical forces she commands to scramble telepathic assaults, thus frying invasive telepaths out of her mind when they tried to make contact with her psyche against her will.

So, it's not a simple matter of having an off-day unless a character says that on-panel.

1. She has been shown to not be immune so not sure what to tell you. CC showed her not being immune and now Taylor has. There are any number of logical explanations for it. Perhaps he cut off her innate bond because she has the indomitable will to do so. Perhaps she did so because her directive from Nova was to harm mutants which would include herself. Perhaps she did so as a means to fight the possession. Who knows. The point is it has now happened so it is now canon that her immunity is not 100%. Sorry that's just canon.

2/3. Damn near every character at some point gets and loses mental defenses. Shit Gambit's first appearance it was said he could charm the Shadow King and he had great mental defenses. In XXM, CC had him resisiting Elias Bogan without powers. Yet in AXM and other stories he is getting possessed. Mental defenses is one of the most used and most abandoned of the secondary abilities or powers that people have. Further, Storm was asleep when Nova got to her so it is entirely defensible that she was able to target her when she was asleep. So again it is just the canon that characters like Gambit, Storm, Rogue, etc. have mental defenses that are not 100% effective and that is usually down to the story the writer wants to tell. Logically there is nothing that says once you acquire mental defenses, they remain forever nor would I expect because a human being's mental state is not a static or stable thing. We all have our ups and downs mentally because that is part and parcel to being human.

[remydat]

Nobody argues the way you claim for their favorite characters. Everybody will try and find showings of their characters written at their best to try and discredit lower showings of their favorites. I've been in a ton of versus debates to know this. Heck, when dealing with some fanbases, they will even go so far as to make up feats their character did not accomplish when backed into a corner, or use instances where their favorite character was being boosted by technology or being possessed by a cosmic entity as demonstrations of their favorite character's own power levels. We Storm fans are not doing that. We are simply using the feats given to her in canon. We don't do like other fanbases and use instances where tech of possessions were used to boost her powers. Such strategies are not required as she is just that good all on her own.

If I were arguing about Gambit, I'd be a fan boy too. I am just cognizant enough to know that. So you are a Storm fan and my job is to bring some non biased common sense to the equation. Just like if we were arguing about Gambit and I was going on about how great a thief he is and how he should be immune to telepathy, I would expect you to bring some non biased common sense to the equation.

You can bring out all the feats you want and there are times when Storm obviously made stupid or dumb mistakes. Whether that was because the writers didn't understand her or because they rightfully thought another writer gave her a power that was ridiculous is ultimately irrelevant. All that really matters is how good the story is as the feats come and go. That is the nature of a medium where characters have 40 years of stories but have only aged a few years within those stories.

[butterflykyss]

There are obviously times when writers get things wrong. I simply don't think this immunity thing is one of them. She was possessed/controlled and one of the things she was suppose to do was hurt mutants including herself. So the fact she was damaged by her own lightning can be reasonably explained by any number of things including her trying to hurt herself and the other mutants. Likewise, this whole indomitable will shit is just silly. She was asleep when Nova got to her and indomitable will isn't some robotic thing that is 100% effective. The fact Nova was able to control her with the aid of sentinite is nothing to freak out about.

The point I am making is her powers are unlikely work 100% of the time as you we expect because she is human. Nothing in how her powers worked where was incorrect. We know that sometimes she can resist her own lightning and we know that sometimes she cannot. This was one of the latter times and the fact she was compromised by Nova is more than enough reason for it to be one of those latter times. Doesn't mean you have to like it but there was nothing incorrect in what Taylor did. There is a logical reason for her not to be immune in this particular instance.

how can something hurt her she is immune to? how can she be so easily controlled when she has broken free from.deeper forms of mind control? no one is arguing against the sleeping part. we are talking about once she awoke. it would have been nice to see her resist to some degree to highlight her history relating to her will power.

and I completely disagree with your assessment. the times she was not resistant in the past were due to reasons outside of mind control. furthermore since then she has had an upgrade as it relates to her lightning. something she is immune to should not affect her period. if this was before her solo you would have a point but that isnt the case here.

[WhiteQueenEmmaFrost]

Sorry to interrupt the usual Storm Fans vs. the World Power Creep Showdown, but Laura got a nice little feat here. Pretty damn impressive her eyes are sharp enough she could SEE that nanite once it was removed from 'Ro's head.

I noticed that...very cool

and I agree the incessant hijacking and subsequent arguing is derailing the thread. No one gets to say anything else and nothing else is discussed. It's utterly ridiculous.

[Fokken]

WHY IN THE WORLD do people WANT their faves to be ULTRAMEGA OMNIPOTENT WITH THE POWER FEATS AND SUCH anyways????

Like, WHAT WRITER is gonna touch that?
Nobody should WANT their fave to be on an impossible level that negates team-dynamic-options. If Mama Weather can SOLAR WINDS or EARTH AURA VIEW or whatever other OOH DE LAWLY some such person weaves with their keyboard, then that just means she either HAS TO get NERFED or knocked the fux out so that ANYONE else can do a damn thing, because nobody wants a team book with a Deus Ex Machawhoozit nomatter how Raaaarrr FIERCE that platinum mane is!

Geeeeeeeeezus.

LIMITS-4-LIFE
MEGA-aint-BETTAH
We want creativity. NOT Deus-exclusivity!

OMG LAURA'S BUN THO???!!

LOL

[donpricetag]

what are those concerns?? and I just love her new look it's gone with the wind fabulous.

The art style, the premise& subplot(s), the dialogue in parts is cringey (to me), team composition (too many kids for what's being tackled and who's running it... Two Wolvie derivatives?), the shear amount of characters (9?!), the lack of connections between them... Storm does HELP with at least two of those concerns. I'm still here and it's on my pull list. It's not horrible, don't get me wrong, I'm just not sold. Not yet. Interesting enough to make me want to read the next issue. So I guess it's doing it's job. Will say it's the best X-Men title in the catalog.

[ariwl1]

I liked Nightcrawler teleporting a bunch of people (Jean, Laura, new mutant girl) in a series of bamfs all the way to Atlantis in issue #1. I haven't kept up with his current power level, but I remember when he used to struggle to teleport once with a single passenger.

Has there been an update to how far he can go in a port? When introduced I believe it was two miles tops. Plus there was that risk of porting blind lest he materialize in a rock or something.

[jwatson]

This is what i saw in my mind after the King, Goddess, Gabby. lol. I've read this like 4 times now.

Kingoddessgabby.jpg

[remydat]

how can something hurt her she is immune to? how can she be so easily controlled when she has broken free from.deeper forms of mind control? no one is arguing against the sleeping part. we are talking about once she awoke. it would have been nice to see her resist to some degree to highlight her history relating to her will power.

and I completely disagree with your assessment. the times she was not resistant in the past were due to reasons outside of mind control. furthermore since then she has had an upgrade as it relates to her lightning. something she is immune to should not affect her period. if this was before her solo you would have a point but that isnt the case here.

The same way it hurt her before. You don't know the science behind what makes her immune so you have no basis to assume her alleged upgrade is permanent. All we know is she has been hurt before and she was hurt this time as well. Abilities can be gained or lost. Immunities can come and go. Unless you telling me Pak has a biology degree and created a scenario that makes it impossible for such a thing to happen, all we know is that it did. We don't know the mechanism by which she is immune and we don't know whether Nova, the sentinite or Storm herself affected that mechanism to reduce her immunity.

If you want to argue that Taylor should have explained this in more detail then that is fine. To argue it is impossible for her to get damaged is simply illogical since this is a comic book where the science behind things is obviously fuzzy if not flat out impossible at times. Mutants aren't actually possible based on the science we know. So not sure how we except someone can control the weather but then somehow stick to this idea that said powers cannot wax and wane. That is absurd. Sci Fi type stories need to be internally consistent. It is established in the canon that powers can come and go. Such is the world of the MU. Powers being lost or not used is as canon as new powers being granted.

[Havok83]

I liked Nightcrawler teleporting a bunch of people (Jean, Laura, new mutant girl) in a series of bamfs all the way to Atlantis in issue #1. I haven't kept up with his current power level, but I remember when he used to struggle to teleport once with a single passenger.

Has there been an update to how far he can go in a port? When introduced I believe it was two miles tops. Plus there was that risk of porting blind lest he materialize in a rock or something.

He teleported Rogue 800 miles in a span of a minute in Second Coming. His final port before death was him teleporting Hope from Vegas to Utopia in one jump

[ariwl1]

He teleported Rogue 800 miles in a span of a minute in Second Coming. His final port before death was him teleporting Hope from Vegas to Utopia in one jump

I'd forgotten about that.

[butterflykyss]

The same way it hurt her before. You don't know the science behind what makes her immune so you have no basis to assume her alleged upgrade is permanent. All we know is she has been hurt before and she was hurt this time as well. Abilities can be gained or lost. Immunities can come and go. Unless you telling me Pak has a biology degree and created a scenario that makes it impossible for such a thing to happen, all we know is that it did. We don't know the mechanism by which she is immune and we don't know whether Nova, the sentinite or Storm herself affected that mechanism to reduce her immunity.

If you want to argue that Taylor should have explained this in more detail then that is fine. To argue it is impossible for her to get damaged is simply illogical since this is a comic book where the science behind things is obviously fuzzy if not flat out impossible at times. Mutants aren't actually possible based on the science we know. So not sure how we except someone can control the weather but then somehow stick to this idea that said powers cannot wax and wane. That is absurd. Sci Fi type stories need to be internally consistent. It is established in the canon that powers can come and go. Such is the world of the MU. Powers being lost or not used is as canon as new powers being granted.

I'm asking you do you know the reason why it hurt her because if you did I dont believe you would be arguing that this instance would have hurt her. there is no science. she said she makes lightning therefore it doesnt hurt her. it's simple. and no it doesnt. wolverine has always had a healing factor. if it changed it was explained. this isnt the case here. and the sentinites did not say anything about changing how peoples power work. only that it makes them angry and allows them to target mutants.

if you are going to deviate from canon st least hsve a reason. she got an upgrade relating to lightning. if he wanted to she could have shown her striking a tree and gave her wait for it to fall on her versus using lightning.

[butterflykyss]

The art style, the premise& subplot(s), the dialogue in parts is cringey (to me), team composition (too many kids for what's being tackled and who's running it... Two Wolvie derivatives?), the shear amount of characters (9?!), the lack of connections between them... Storm does HELP with at least two of those concerns. I'm still here and it's on my pull list. It's not horrible, don't get me wrong, I'm just not sold. Not yet. Interesting enough to make me want to read the next issue. So I guess it's doing it's job. Will say it's the best X-Men title in the catalog.

all fair points. quick question. does gabby hsve claws too like Logan or does she only have a healing factor.