Page 12 of 12 FirstFirst ... 289101112
Results 166 to 171 of 171
  1. #166
    Extraordinary Member Lee Stone's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    9,026

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy Diamond View Post
    What I mean by shoehorn is when they take a character who's fairly unique and then try to make the more like how a typical character should be in their eyes.

    Let me use Maxwell Lord as an example. Originally he was a neutral character and morally ambiguous. You don't see that much in superhero comics so that stood out to me when I first read him. Then he got turned into a villain in one of the latter JL runs. I didn't see the point in doing that and it was even ignored when he returned in Formerly Known as the Justice League. Then Countdown to Infinite Crisis hits and bam he's been a villain all along. This despite stories in the past showing that while he was questionable, deep down inside he wanted to do the right thing. He didn't even like having superpowers much and barely knew how to use them. But because a character like Lord doesn't fit into the roles of villain or hero he has to be shoehorned into one of them. Tradition demands it see.
    Yeah, I loved Max in JLI.
    He went from being a carbon copy of JR Ewing and Donald Trump and evolved, by the end of the first year, into a strong character. And even had J'onn scan his mind and found no evil intentions.
    Then he was given powers during Invasion and imagined himself as a hero, while with his girlfriend, Wanda.
    He even showed that he had reservations about spying on Booster when he joined his ex-wife's Conglomerate.

    So I'll add the Didio-fied Maxwell Lord to my list of characters I dislike.
    Currently reading: Legion of Super-Heroes ('80s), New Teen Titans ('80s)

  2. #167
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,948

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Montressor View Post
    Niles Caulder. Don't get me started.
    Another victim of the 'good guys are boring' trope. Earnest heroic leader or mentor characters are considered 'dull' and writers love to dirty them up and make them 'gritty and realistic' by turning them into manipulative douchebags. Marvel's done this to Professor Xavier and Cyclops, DC has done it to Maxwell Lord and Niles Caulder. There was even a push to make Superman gritty and scary and intimidating, or Billy Batson into a rebellious angry punk, and I'm just kind of sick of the notion that 'nice people are boring.'

    I want at least *some* heroic figures (and leader figures, and mentor figures) to remain inspiring and noble and idealistic, yes, even perhaps unrealistically so. I want there to be figures like Captain Marvel/Shazam or Superman that, when they fly across the sky, nobody clutches their children close or runs for cover, they instead smile and point and feel a little bit safer.

    Certainly there's plenty of room for darker characters with darker issues, like Raven's ties to her demonic father, who *aren't* inspiring and friendly, but a little bit off-putting and creepy, or who actively cultivate a bad reputation, like Batman, who *wants* to inspire fear in Gotham's underworld, but not *everybody* needs to be dirtied up and made scarier.

    Good isn't boring. Bad writing is boring, and when a bad writer decides to turn a good guy bad (or scary, or manipulative) to make him 'more interesting,' it's a failure on the part of that writer's imagination, IMO.

  3. #168
    Astonishing Member j9ac9k's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,797

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    Another victim of the 'good guys are boring' trope. Earnest heroic leader or mentor characters are considered 'dull' and writers love to dirty them up and make them 'gritty and realistic' by turning them into manipulative douchebags. Marvel's done this to Professor Xavier and Cyclops, DC has done it to Maxwell Lord and Niles Caulder. There was even a push to make Superman gritty and scary and intimidating, or Billy Batson into a rebellious angry punk, and I'm just kind of sick of the notion that 'nice people are boring.'
    I think Caulder fell into a subset of what you're talking about, which is the cultural trend of losing faith in authority figures. The Guardians of the Universe were maybe the biggest example of that and it started when Green Arrow blasted them for being out of touch. Readers are usually more prone to identify with the action hero more than the guy barking orders and following orders or finding validation from a benevolent authority is no longer part of the fantasy - it became about subverting authority that has proven unworthy of respect and forging your own path.
    Last edited by j9ac9k; 05-21-2018 at 09:00 AM.

  4. #169
    Incredible Member Restingvoice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    975

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HAN9000 View Post
    That's just more absurd. What a mental patient truly need is a doctor. They won't feel better just because of some companions or relieving words. They need professional medical treatment. What comics present about Jessica's illness is misleading. And as someone having a close friend suffers depressive disorder, I've always hated that kind of information might misguide public perception of mental diseases. Feeling bad doesn't equalize mental illness. If reading comics makes you feel better, com'on, you are not ill, you are just in a bad mood. Stop being dramatic or imagining sickness.
    Besides, talking about a Green Lantern having difficulty doing daily activities
    She's literally crippled by fear multiple times. That is not just feeling bad. That's a condition. Exactly, she won't feel better just by having a companion and advice, that's why it happened multiple times. People who suffer the same way as her already go to the doctor, so it's not about finding the cure because sometimes people give up on their medication. It's about having a heroic figure who walk with you through that healing process, understanding the struggle and still continue fighting to be better, and Green Lantern is about having the will to overcome fear.
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 05-21-2018 at 09:55 AM.

  5. #170
    Fantastic Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    399

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    She's literally crippled by fear multiple times. That is not just feeling bad. That's a condition. Exactly, she won't feel better just by having a companion and advice, that's why it happened multiple times. People who suffer the same way as her already go to the doctor, so it's not about finding the cure because sometimes people give up on their medication. It's about having a heroic figure who walk with you through that healing process, understanding the struggle and still continue fighting to be better, and Green Lantern is about having the will to overcome fear.
    She ran away hiding herself in fear, and next she thought about Simon or her companions and she suddenly felt alright and came out to fight. She felt bad. Simon came over to have breakfast with her and she lit up with pleasure. Those are what I said misleading. The average term of Green Lantern's duty is only a little longer than 4 years (and then they might die). This is a job of high intensity and mortality. She's harming the franchise by making the job looks like an exciting adventure even a mental patients can be competent to. Please, join the army after healed for her own good and other people's sake. Even a military on earth would advise that.
    By the way, I hate Ikari Shinji too. So I think we just have different tastes about characters.

  6. #171
    Spectacular Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    167

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Tbf, Aquaman wasn't really unique before Peter David's run in the 90s and the BATB version wouldn't occur until the late 2000s.
    The series that preceded David's run was really great. i know they had Zero Hour and they got a big name on the title but that prior series was some of the best Aquaman stories.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •