Why do you think the Fourth World was not a commercial success initially?

[Trey Strain]

The Fourth World is one of those things you're supposed to like. Not something that most people really do like.

[Darkseid Is]

The Fourth World is one of those things you're supposed to like. Not something that most people really do like.

I'm not trying to insult you but that is so condescending. It's one of my favorite series of books and the way you put it sounds like I like it because people have told me it's good. Instead of it's imaginative and has great art.

It's okay if you don't like something but jeez. I think a lot of people think it's a special work.

[Trey Strain]

I'm not trying to insult you but that is so condescending. It's one of my favorite series of books and the way you put it sounds like I like it because people have told me it's good. Instead of it's imaginative and has great art.

It's okay if you don't like something but jeez. I think a lot of people think it's a special work.

This thread is about its unpopularity. I think it's OK to talk about that.

[Darkseid Is]

This thread is about its unpopularity. I think it's OK to talk about that.

Of course it's okay to talk about it but where are we getting this from that it's something we're supposed to like. Like it's something pushed down our throats.

[Great O.G.U.F.O.O.L.]

The Fourth World is one of those things you're supposed to like. Not something that most people really do like.

You can say that for a lot of great things, if not most.

[Trey Strain]

You can say that for a lot of great things, if not most.

It's like Woody Allen's movies. You're supposed to like them too, but not many people do.

[ed2962]

It's like Woody Allen's movies. You're supposed to like them too, but not many people do.

Well...a lot of people do (or did) like Allen's films or else he wouldn't have been popular in the first place.

[SiegePerilous02]

One major reason is because while Jack Kirby had great ideas, he was such a TERRIBLE writer; he was definitely no Stan Lee in the writing department.

Stan's dialogue isn't much better than Kirby's, it hasn't aged all that well. When reading the Fourth World, the Demon or Kamandi, I honestly don't see much difference in the dialogue department. I actually think some of it is stronger than the Stan's Silver Age Marvel stuff.

Stan's a great businessman and had some great ideas of his own, but the fact that he has nowhere near the amount of crazy ideas that Kirby did means he's not that caliber of writer/plotter, and his dialogue isn't better enough to tip things in his favor.

[CaptCleghorn]

Well...a lot of people do (or did) like Allen's films or else he wouldn't have been popular in the first place.

Eventually we're getting to the Yogism, "nobody likes it, it's too popular".

[The Darknight Detective]

Well...a lot of people do (or did) like Allen's films or else he wouldn't have been popular in the first place.

He was very popular as both a director and actor during the '70s, but less so after that.

[Great O.G.U.F.O.O.L.]

It's like Woody Allen's movies. You're supposed to like them too, but not many people do.

I was thinking more in the sense that most people aren't going to put down "Moby Dick" as boring even though they'd rather read something by Dan Brown instead, because they know that "Moby Dick" is supposed to be a great work of Literature and they don't want to appear unintelligent or something.

Anyway, Kirby's Fourth World stuff was grounbreaking work for mainstream American comics, in terms of content, characters and narrative structure, and although not a blockbuster, it's been popular enough for DC to reprint in a variety of formats. It's also acknowledged and beloved by several successful comics creators and it's a major influence in the works of Grant Morrison, Walter Simonson, Jim Starlin, Karl Kesel, Joe Casey, Tom Scioli etc.

It's concepts and characters have also been milked by DC in their various titles, from Legion's "Great Darkness Saga" to 90s Superman books, to Justice League stories, various crossovers, to DC Animated and the ill fated DCEU. It's basicaly DC's "go-to" when they want to go for epicness. In the long run it was a success for DC and I'm pretty sure they're glad they own these concepts.

As far as the original comics and their sales though, well, Alan Moore in the late 90s started the "America's Best Comics" imprint and actually created, with his collaborators, some of America's best genre comics. They couldn't compete in terms of sales with the top DC/Marvel books either. I suppose those who comprise the "comicbook-reading crowd" are mostly followers of specific brands. I think a poster already suggested something similar.

[Wolfsbane]

I absolutely loved Jack Kirby’s Fourth World. A great story is one that “stands the test of time”.

I am a testament of that. I started reading DC back in 2008. I picked up the Fourth World in trades in 2011 maybe? And couldn’t stop reading it. If it’s popular now with the new DC readership generation, then it was a darn good story.....and I’ve noticed a lot of new readers find it difficult to read DC comics pre 1980. Not this one people. This was pure magic!

[Robotman]

The Fourth World is one of those things you're supposed to like. Not something that most people really do like.

You’re entitled to your opinion. But your main criticism of Kirby’s Fourth World seems to be that it has clunky dialogue. If thats the litmus test for a great comic than 99% of Golden and Silver Age comics would be considered crap. Most of the dialogue from those eras is very clunky and it over explained the plot. So Siegel and Shuster, Bill Finger, Will Eisner, Kirby, etc. would all be considered overrated or something that “most people don’t like.”

If you can’t appreciate the insane amount of imagination and creativity leaping off the pages of Kirby’s Fourth World, I feel sorry for you.

[Lee Stone]

The Fourth World is one of those things you're supposed to like. Not something that most people really do like.

Uh... no it's not.
That's like saying everyone is supposed to like Football.

[Nick Miller]

Kirby wrote much of the Stan/Jack comics. Stan would just change a word or two and get the credit.

Never mind