Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 78
  1. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Trey Strain View Post
    It still hasn't been a commercial success.

    It was filled with bad dialogue, cardboard characters and situations too far removed from humanity to be relatable. Above all, it was never designed to go on. Jack Kirby wanted it to end, but to this day DC has never honored his intent.
    I agree with you mostly. Of course, this is just a matter of taste.

    Sandy Hausler

  2. #17
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    4,554

    Default

    It's interesting, because I think a lot about how to incorporate the New Gods and Apokoliptans into the DCU at large and wonder why it hasn't yet been done so. I wasn't around for the initial release, but the characters, especially the New Gods, were always a little on-the-nose to me; Lightray, Highfather, Big Bear, etc. Kind of like the He-Man characters in Masters of the Universe. (Which I love BTW when played straight and not tongue-in-cheek, so maybe that's what I'm looking for in the New Gods.) Amidst other attempts at "cosmic" stories and setting, something just didn't click for me.

    The dark side of the pantheon seems like the stronger of the concepts too. Darkseid, Desaad, Kalibak, Tigra, Heggra, Orion, Granny Goodness, Kanto, the Female Furies, and others in Darkseid's Elite are far more interesting than the New Gods. Metron is a great character, but of the other New Gods, Big Barda and Mister Miracle are probably the most interesting and even those two have origins that are dependent on ties to evil.

    Otherwise lately, and except for maybe Morrison's ideas with them, they've become stagnant. DC has never properly dove into their divinity in comparison to other divinities to make them unique and they have really pushed their grand background theme of technology as god into the new Millennium. I mean, we're all essentially using Mother Boxes right now, so how do the New Gods continue to "be" what's next and somewhat the "unknown." That takes a lot of work and a visionary. The Legion of Super-Heroes has a bit of the same challenge - depicting what's next for sentient beings far in the future and incorporating that into their soap opera and action and adventure.

    Just for fun, I'd love to see an editorial office designated as dealing with this and adding some conceptualization and especially consistency when it comes to depicting the New Gods in titles. Or an overarching story arc that has the characters interacting with the DCU.

    I don't see them gaining anything or becoming more interesting characters, until they stop playing so fast and loose with them.

  3. #18
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    6,911

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WonderScott View Post
    It's interesting, because I think a lot about how to incorporate the New Gods and Apokoliptans into the DCU at large and wonder why it hasn't yet been done so. I wasn't around for the initial release, but the characters, especially the New Gods, were always a little on-the-nose to me; Lightray, Highfather, Big Bear, etc. Kind of like the He-Man characters in Masters of the Universe. (Which I love BTW when played straight and not tongue-in-cheek, so maybe that's what I'm looking for in the New Gods.) Amidst other attempts at "cosmic" stories and setting, something just didn't click for me.

    The dark side of the pantheon seems like the stronger of the concepts too. Darkseid, Desaad, Kalibak, Tigra, Heggra, Orion, Granny Goodness, Kanto, the Female Furies, and others in Darkseid's Elite are far more interesting than the New Gods. Metron is a great character, but of the other New Gods, Big Barda and Mister Miracle are probably the most interesting and even those two have origins that are dependent on ties to evil.

    Otherwise lately, and except for maybe Morrison's ideas with them, they've become stagnant. DC has never properly dove into their divinity in comparison to other divinities to make them unique and they have really pushed their grand background theme of technology as god into the new Millennium. I mean, we're all essentially using Mother Boxes right now, so how do the New Gods continue to "be" what's next and somewhat the "unknown." That takes a lot of work and a visionary. The Legion of Super-Heroes has a bit of the same challenge - depicting what's next for sentient beings far in the future and incorporating that into their soap opera and action and adventure.

    Just for fun, I'd love to see an editorial office designated as dealing with this and adding some conceptualization and especially consistency when it comes to depicting the New Gods in titles. Or an overarching story arc that has the characters interacting with the DCU.

    I don't see them gaining anything or becoming more interesting characters, until they stop playing so fast and loose with them.
    I think this is a fair criticism. Which is why I think Mr. Miracle has been so good recently. It has a very human down to Earth central focus, but the larger than life cosmic entities in a holy war are taken as they are and should be. But I agree that over the years, not enough has been done with them. I suppose they're difficult to fully realize. Humanize them too much and they lose their entire purpose; but fail to communicate their grandiosity and cosmic character in a truly artful way and you cheapen them into a cliche.

  4. #19
    DC/Collected Editions Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    18,978

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by iron chimp View Post
    Even detective was nearly cancelled in this period.
    Well, that's the story, at any rate.
    A bat! That's it! It's an omen.. I'll shall become a bat!

    Pre-CBR Reboot Join Date: 10-17-2010

    Pre-CBR Reboot Posts: 4,362

    THE CBR COMMUNITY STANDARDS & RULES ~ So... what's your excuse now?

  5. #20
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    978

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Well, that's the story, at any rate.
    tell all... is it just an urban myth?

  6. #21
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    12,302

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by iron chimp View Post
    tell all... is it just an urban myth?
    More info here.
    "There's magic in the sound of analog audio." - CNET.

  7. #22
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    978

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Stone View Post
    nice. Brian Cronin's articles are always a great read. Seems madness one of US comics most prestigious books could even be considered as on the chopping block but DC were in a real mess in that period.

  8. #23
    Retired
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    18,747

    Default

    What that piece doesn’t explain is how the DC Implosion came about.

    DC got a bunch of money from Warner when the SUPERMAN movie was going to come out (it should have come out in June but was delayed to December). With that money they were going to expand the line—the Explosion. At the same time DC was put under the control of the Warner Books division, who called the shots.

    The previous winter, there was a big snowstorm on the eastern seaboard that prevented the comics from getting to major outlets thus killing sales. When the sales reports came in, months later, the Warner Books guys lost their nerve and reversed the Explosion, calling for cancellation on the weakest titles, according to their figures, which included DETECTIVE COMICS.

    It was only the quick thinking by the guys in the DC offices that saved the flagship title.

    I’d also reckon that if SUPERMAN had come out on time that would have supported the Explosion and DC would have a better argument for staying the course —as the movie would give them a higher profile and bring more readers to the spinner racks.

    But indications are that ‘TEC was in trouble long before this. Maybe as far back as the early 1960s yet they always kept a monthly schedule until 1973 when the book was cut back to a bi-monthly schedule (six issues per year).

    Soon after this, the title was handed to Archie Goodwin, taking over from longtime editor Julius Schwartz. But then it became one of the Super Spectacular sized comics, which were all bi-monthly (every title featuring Batman was in this format) for about a year. By contrast, ACTION COMICS never went the Super Spectacular route and always stayed a monthly.

    However, once the Super Spectacular experiment ended, Schwartz had returned and ‘TEC soon went back to monthly status, only to be cut back to a bi-monthly again in 1977, which was how it remained through the Implosion until 1980.

    Nevertheless, I’d say these were the best of times for me as a DC reader and a Batman fan. You can’t always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find you get what you need.

  9. #24
    Mighty Member Darkseid Is's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    1,131

    Default

    Am I the only person that loves Kirby's goofy dialogue?

  10. #25
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Swingin' Above Ya
    Posts
    11,935

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    What that piece doesn’t explain is how the DC Implosion came about.

    DC got a bunch of money from Warner when the SUPERMAN movie was going to come out (it should have come out in June but was delayed to December). With that money they were going to expand the line—the Explosion. At the same time DC was put under the control of the Warner Books division, who called the shots.

    The previous winter, there was a big snowstorm on the eastern seaboard that prevented the comics from getting to major outlets thus killing sales. When the sales reports came in, months later, the Warner Books guys lost their nerve and reversed the Explosion, calling for cancellation on the weakest titles, according to their figures, which included DETECTIVE COMICS.

    It was only the quick thinking by the guys in the DC offices that saved the flagship title.

    I’d also reckon that if SUPERMAN had come out on time that would have supported the Explosion and DC would have a better argument for staying the course —as the movie would give them a higher profile and bring more readers to the spinner racks.

    But indications are that ‘TEC was in trouble long before this. Maybe as far back as the early 1960s yet they always kept a monthly schedule until 1973 when the book was cut back to a bi-monthly schedule (six issues per year).

    Soon after this, the title was handed to Archie Goodwin, taking over from longtime editor Julius Schwartz. But then it became one of the Super Spectacular sized comics, which were all bi-monthly (every title featuring Batman was in this format) for about a year. By contrast, ACTION COMICS never went the Super Spectacular route and always stayed a monthly.

    However, once the Super Spectacular experiment ended, Schwartz had returned and ‘TEC soon went back to monthly status, only to be cut back to a bi-monthly again in 1977, which was how it remained through the Implosion until 1980.

    Nevertheless, I’d say these were the best of times for me as a DC reader and a Batman fan. You can’t always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find you get what you need.
    Damn, so if it hadn't been for a snowstorm, Vixen could have made history as the first black superheroine to have her own title?

    Ugh, foiled by WHITE snow.

  11. #26
    Mighty Member Slowpokeking's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    1,408

    Default

    I don't think it's unsuccessful.

    Thank to Jack Kirby we got the new gods' history and setting, that is what DC usually lack of: detailed introduction of alien/non human civilization.

  12. #27
    Retired
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    18,747

    Default

    In the early ‘70s, the DC super-hero titles were in decline, while they were having success in other genres—horror, romance, war and fantasy adventure. The Fourth World books (including JIMMY OLSEN) often had a weird, supernatural tone. And Kirby went on to do THE DEMON and SANDMAN (horror), the Losers in OUR FIGHTING FORCES (war) and KAMANDI (fantasy adventure/science fiction).

  13. #28
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    978

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    What that piece doesn’t explain is how the DC Implosion came about.

    ...
    but if you try sometimes, you just might find you get what you need.
    Interesting stuff Jim.

    I know its all tangental to original question (my fault) but that adds some good context to events around kirby at dc.

  14. #29
    Incredible Member Naked Bat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    854

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkseid Is View Post
    Am I the only person that loves Kirby's goofy dialogue?
    Don't worry, you're not the only one.

  15. #30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkseid Is View Post
    Am I the only person that loves Kirby's goofy dialogue?
    Probably. Well, maybe Mark Evanier.

    Sandy Hausler

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •