Any ideas to FIX the X-men books and their over reliance on Mutant Hatred?

[useridgoeshere]

I just read most of the Xmen Red books out there, and I love Jean being back, But the book is harping on something that is REALLY driving me up a wall.

I think one of the reasons I loved the Outback so much was the lack of fighting because of being mutants. Yes, they had Genosha, but it wasn't all about stopping Mutant murdering things until they went back to Mastermold.

Over the years I've seen less and less reason for the world to Fear and Hate Mutants overall.

You've got LITERAL Gods throwing down on Earth, yet Mutants are the problem?

Companies, Covert groups, and random Animals and Insects biting people and giving them superpowers. Yet Mutants are the Problem?

Radiation NOT killing people and giving them powers, yet Mutants are the problem?

Alien races invading DAILY, yet Mutants are the problem?

Cosmic entities that EAT whole damn planets, yet Mutants?

Sentient viruses, and reality-altering storms and friggin Gauntlets with Gems in them, Yet Mutants are the biggest threat?

I had a lot more fun back when the X-men went through their Galactic Phases, their Adventuring days, etc.

In a world of Super Soldiers like Cap, Androids like Vision and Jocasta, People in power armor like Riri, how the hell do we keep justifying hatred of mutants? Is it sheer human stupidity?


I know that If I were writing the X-books I'd try to move away from that. It's SOOOO dated.

I think it's more relevant than ever in the world, but comic books have trouble with it. Writers don't get it. And those who do are hamstrung by editorial. Part of my issue with Red is that we all know Jean will fail, regardless of what happens. Yeah, she can beat Cassandra, but there's no solution to Mutant hatred. It doesn't make for a great narrative. I also think Marvel has walked away from the idea of regular people being Mutants. That should be the irrational fear for humans.

All the things you point out are why Mutant hatred works in a modern societal context. The exact same thing defines bigotry in the US. You've got white males with machine guns shooting up schools, but DACA kids are the problem? Corporations and government poison entire communities, but gay marriage will ruin society? Our food supply keeps having issues and people are dying, but a black boy with a cell phone is a danger? Parts of Oklahoma average 2 earthquakes a day thanks to wastewater disposal, but transgender people trying to use a bathroom are the danger?

Bigotry is irrational and people use confirmation bias to validate their hate. Fact is there are racists who listen to Black music artists, watch Black actors and cheer for Black athletes, but when a non-famous Black person enters their community, they're calling the cops for no reason. That's America.

You're not the first person to point out that fear of mutants doesn't make all that much sense in the Marvel Universe. Some have said that's why the X-Men should be set in their own separate universe. (Personally, I'm agnostic on the subject.)

IMO, the problem with what you're suggesting is that the X-Men become just another superhero team book. The minority metaphor and prejudice angle is what makes the X-Men distinct. The concept does need to be modernized, but take it away entirely, and what's left is an off-brand Avengers.

I agree with your second point. Read Avengers for generic superhero stuff.

[Huntsman Spider]

I think it's more relevant than ever in the world, but comic books have trouble with it. Writers don't get it. And those who do are hamstrung by editorial. Part of my issue with Red is that we all know Jean will fail, regardless of what happens. Yeah, she can beat Cassandra, but there's no solution to Mutant hatred. It doesn't make for a great narrative. I also think Marvel has walked away from the idea of regular people being Mutants. That should be the irrational fear for humans.

All the things you point out are why Mutant hatred works in a modern societal context. The exact same thing defines bigotry in the US. You've got white males with machine guns shooting up schools, but DACA kids are the problem? Corporations and government poison entire communities, but gay marriage will ruin society? Our food supply keeps having issues and people are dying, but a black boy with a cell phone is a danger? Parts of Oklahoma average 2 earthquakes a day thanks to wastewater disposal, but transgender people trying to use a bathroom are the danger?

Bigotry is irrational and people use confirmation bias to validate their hate. Fact is there are racists who listen to Black music artists, watch Black actors and cheer for Black athletes, but when a non-famous Black person enters their community, they're calling the cops for no reason. That's America.


I agree with your second point. Read Avengers for generic superhero stuff.

I would add to the bolded that those same racists only like famous black people so long as those famous black people stick to entertaining them and don't attempt to speak out about the very real issues afflicting their community and American society as a whole, especially if their speaking out implicates the power structures that benefit and empower white people at the expense of nonwhite (especially black) people. One could extend that to mutants in the Marvel Universe, in the sense that there are some humans who might be willing to give some mutants a chance, at least as long as those mutants are willing to acquiesce to the human narrative that blames mutants for the tensions between them, instead of calling out human bigotry against mutants as the source of those tensions.

[skyvolt2000]

You're not the first person to point out that fear of mutants doesn't make all that much sense in the Marvel Universe. Some have said that's why the X-Men should be set in their own separate universe. (Personally, I'm agnostic on the subject.)

IMO, the problem with what you're suggesting is that the X-Men become just another superhero team book. The minority metaphor and prejudice angle is what makes the X-Men distinct. The concept does need to be modernized, but take it away entirely, and what's left is an off-brand Avengers.

I think the complaint is why does it have to be the ONLY issue that they face.

Why are they the main target when you got bigger threats out there.

When do the X-Men face say a threat like Unicron or Darth Vader where it's NOT about being mutants. Where is the variety?

Where is that scene where Logan gets in Zimmerman's face and say "I am WAY more dangerous than a 17 year kid with skittles & tea-FOLLOW me around and see what happens."

Where are the Sentinels to invade Wakanda, Atlantis or Laveria?

Where were the folks trying to contain that cloud that were mutants or Inhumans?

[phantom1592]

Pretty much.

And it's not as though every single story arc (or even the majority) from Lee and Kirby in 1963 to the present dealt with mutants being hated and reviled. They had a whole bunch of fun and interesting adventures in between the fear and loathing.

The premise is not broken, therefore it does not need fixing. (A pity, the same cannot be said of certain writers).

That's kind of the point though. Back in the day there was a lot of variety to the X-adventures. Now days? Not so much. I think people want to see MORE of the stuff that they did in the 60's 70's and even 80's.

It's already been said, but there's no need to "Fix" the mutant minority metaphor because it's so central to the X-Men, what makes them special, and why they're so popular. Beyond that, racism/sexism/homophobia/antisemitism/whatever else still haven't been "fixed" despite all of humanity's advancements, so I don't see why the X-books would have to move beyond that theme. I agree that it should be x-panded upon, mutants on the verge of extinction as a storyline is trite and redundant at this point. It would be great to see a return to concepts like Mutant Town, groups like the X-Men or X-Factor investigating things like over-policing and police brutality in mutant communities, mutant refugees/immigrants, bigoted legislation trying to strip them of their rights, the fight to create positive PR for mutants in a world where groups like The Brotherhood exist, etc. The theme needs to evolve the same way bigotry in society has evolved.

Metaphors can be overused. The X-Men shouldn't be dominated by that metaphor. It's a part of them... but it's not ALL of them. Racism and bigotry are interesting stories and all... but how is that not the same thing as having every Asian character ever being only in Asian movies about Asian things doing Martial arts and math... or if a character is Black then they HAVE to be dealing with Black issues with Black people about black things... Or gay people only being about gay things and nothing that overlaps with every other people... because that's 'what they're about'...

It's like they've focused so hard on the metaphor about what makes X-Men different from other people... that they've completely lost sight about the whole Prof X's goal of having them integrate into society. It's gone from 'Protecting a world that fears and hates them' to 'Us vs. Them!!!'

[Tazirai]

If they went from it..it wouldnt be real. Look at America..especially since they voted in their Republican President, House, and Senate. They are targeting Blacks via police harassment like never before in the 2000s. Getting called on for sitting at Starbucks. Jealousy. Hatred. That applies to mutants as well and it wouldnt be realistic if a hateful America just cheered mutants out of the blue. It would be preposterous and phony.

Now if you come from a White privilege perspective..where life is pretty easy going, I can understand why you would want to have a happy go lucky soap opera crap stories instead. But that's just a fantasy world.

Nope I'm a Black Male Gun Owner with two college degrees. So I'm 1000% a threat lol.

But I just want more variety in my story telling.

[Tazirai]

The only way to fix it is to get good writers.

Remember when stories like Fall of Mutants, Inferno and Evolutionary War were going on but the threat of the Mutant Registration Act was still looming around. Hell, the MRA even came up in Avengers. Where the good writers at?

Yes. I'm all for the best writers on the X-books. I miss when those eents were just thematic and you could actually MISS the other side of it. You could get the full Fall of the Mutants, without actually reading X-Factor or New Mutants, Imagine that lol.

Speaking of which a great podcast

You're not the first person to point out that fear of mutants doesn't make all that much sense in the Marvel Universe. Some have said that's why the X-Men should be set in their own separate universe. (Personally, I'm agnostic on the subject.)

IMO, the problem with what you're suggesting is that the X-Men become just another superhero team book. The minority metaphor and prejudice angle is what makes the X-Men distinct. The concept does need to be modernized, but take it away entirely, and what's left is an off-brand Avengers.

I actually agree with this. Keep the metaphor but expand upon it.

[BroHomo]

Lol let's 'fix' the Avengers and their played out trope on in fighting villains lol

[Sutekh]

Also on the opposite side of things Maverl could really use some normal run of the mill good guy human characters. There used to be a few now there seems to be none. Really the best way to present advancement for the X-men would be more humans wishing to help, engage, work for them. They don't even need to be on the team, help, support staff, people in the press anybody.

For every group that has 'phobes, there are also the 'philes, and it is odd that there aren't the mutant equivalent, people who are fannish about mutants or even kind of annoyingly or wrong-headedly so, the kind of 'allies' that a person of color or gay person kind of rolls their eyes at and wishes *weren't* 'on their side.' There should definitely be pro-mutants-right groups composed mostly of non-mutants (including some family members and friends of mutants, since just about every mutant has tons of non-mutant family members, that seem to exist mostly off-screen).

That kind of applies to non-mutant supporting cast as well. Jane Foster, Pepper Potts, Gwen Stacy. Supporting cast who don't evolve into superheroes/powered folk in their own right are getting thinner on the ground, while others like Stevie Hunter or Wyatt Wingfoot are just sort of fading away.

From the X-men side of things, maybe a book strictly on super heroics. This has been kicked about a few times, but a book solely dedicated on making a world that 'fears and hates you' fear and hate you less, by kicking the shit out of criminals, aliens and monsters. I would have politics absolutely at the front of this book while mixing is with high super heroic action.

Astonishing tried to go that route, and I do kind of wish they'd stood that ground, or that some other book would fill that gap. Mixed teams, like Excalibur or Alpha Flight or the more recent Uncanny Avengers, with some mutants and some non-mutants working together might be one way to go, so that the 'mutant thing' doesn't take over the books message and every plot doesn't revolve around mutant-hunters or fights with 'evil mutants' like Cassandra Nova or Apocalypse or Selene.

On the other hand, as long as mutants *are* being hunted and persecuted and whatnot, there should be one team that is actively working against that, both reactively (saving mutants in threat) and proactively (winning hearts and minds, operating in such a way to help advances laws and movements that protect mutantkind).

It just shouldn't be the sole focus for every single mutant (or team with mutants or of mutants) 100% of the time. If every mutant team is constantly dealing with 'mutant issues' like evil mutants or mutant-hunters, it actually goes in the direction of supporting the non-mutant position that the world would be better off without them, because they are fighting fires that only exist because of them, and not 'just people like the rest of us.'

[danielsan52]

It should be taken down a notch.

In the real world, anti mutant bigotry would be posted on social media and disgraced.

The Avengers should be going after the bigger threats too.

[CRaymond]

It’s not so much bigotry as paranoia about concealed weapons of mass destruction. Healing factored murderers are nothing compared to teenage angst telekinesis. Mutations aren’t created equal... Mutants with minor powers should hate that they’re lumped in with monsters like Jean Grey and Magneto.

[stormphoenix]

Mutant Hatred is fine if it’s supposed to be the equivalent of Racism then I’d say leave it. It’s still a problem today thus it should be in the comics. However, I would LIKE to take a small break from it. To were the humans would actually have to rely on Mutants to save their lives in a setting to where I don’t know the genetic of of a regular human is at jeopardy or some crazy thing. I DON’T KNOW.

[Crimz]

Mutant Hatred is fine if it’s supposed to be the equivalent of Racism then I’d say leave it. It’s still a problem today thus it should be in the comics. However, I would LIKE to take a small break from it. To were the humans would actually have to rely on Mutants to save their lives in a setting to where I don’t know the genetic of of a regular human is at jeopardy or some crazy thing. I DON’T KNOW.

That's the problem though. We've made progress in terms of racism and LGBT rights and the mutant allegory should represent that, but it is often too extreme and dystopian that it loses some relatability. Things aren't perfect and the X-Men books should represent that, but it should definitely also represent the progress that's been made.

[stormphoenix]

That's the problem though. We've made progress in terms of racism and LGBT rights and the mutant allegory should represent that, but it is often too extreme and dystopian that it loses some relatability. Things aren't perfect and the X-Men books should represent that, but it should definitely also represent the progress that's been made.

What progress is that???

[Armageddon]

Mutants needs to be more about gun control. I'm not saying to completely ditch the minority metaphor(it's nigh on impossible to do that at this point anyway). But having a different skin color or gender and shooting stuff from your eyes that can kill you instantly is not the same thing. I say mixing of the two would be the best.

Well, but Avengers and others also have powers, nobody hates them, why? Well, simply put, because they put on a costume. What will make you uncomfortable? A cop with a gun or your neighbour's kid with a gun with no licence, no training, nothing. He just has a gun. I think this will also give more reasons for X-Men to wear costumes.

No, this doesn't work perfectly, but I think it's better than "we hate mutants because they'll replace us eventually!" or mutants being constantly compared to real life minority which honestly many times gets tone-deaf.

Maybe for an arc but as an overall theme no. Defeats the whole purpose of X-Men.
Didnt X-Men Gold just fight some Aliens in space?

[Armageddon]

That's the problem though. We've made progress in terms of racism and LGBT rights and the mutant allegory should represent that, but it is often too extreme and dystopian that it loses some relatability. Things aren't perfect and the X-Men books should represent that, but it should definitely also represent the progress that's been made.

Its comics though. Things are supposed to be extreme.