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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by CentralPower View Post
    They sort of did that with "the Ultimates". No need to do it again, at least for a few more years.




    When Flash inevitably returns from the dead, his legs will probably regenerate.




    In real terms, I agree. But, if everything is to be taken as published, Cold War era characters like Titanium Man or Black Widow have to be changed in ways that mean the old comics cannot be read as originally published. (Who met Reagan or Kennedy when now?)

    With the current sliding time-scale, Spider-Man is ~30 (at most). He would have been born in the closing months of Reagan (possibly mid-Bush), and grown up post-Cold War. This makes his adventures in East Germany (and thus significant amounts of Hobgoblin backstory) impossible to reconcile. Keeping that run of comics in continuity breaks things. Or those things have to be changed. (And, some fans cannot handle the latter, and expect Marvel to "fix" things somehow.)

    I just assume that references to specific events or times are going to fade out at some point.




    At this point, readers need to step back and understand the real reason for that seen. Marvel was saying, on-page in an actual comic that was written by one of their main writers, that the backstories were going to be flexible. This makes it impossible for some readers to "ignore" editorial statements. Even readers who slavishly adhere to what is on page in the comics have to recognize that scene.

    And, Galactus saying "it has always been like this, accept it" is Marvel saying that readers need to suck it up and move on.




    The problem is that too many writers like to throw in specific time/place references. (How many Superbowls did Captain America miss? That answer exists.)

    I would prefer that they not. And, I would prefer a hazy sliding-scale with an occasional check-list of what comics have been ambiguated out. (I think that a hard reset would work well. But, I would likely skip the comics that it happened in.)





    The Superman cartoon went with the old idea that Gotham and Metropolis were the same ur-form city, during the night and during the day. And, yes, that did work well.

    The problem with the "world outside your window" is that even assuming ~10 years would require the writers to apply real economics and technology principles. (After 10 years, Stark-level tech would be commercially available. A suburb, let alone a major city, being wiped out would not be something people just got past.)

    .
    In the 1960's, Tony Stark used to say his Iron Man armor had transistors. But that is an ancient relic by today's standards. Stark used his armor as a pacemaker. But today you could get a pacemaker so he never needed a chunky suit of armor to keep his heart beating. You could fit a computer worth 2 terabytes of data inside your pocket.

  2. #62
    Boisterously Confused
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsLeadHat View Post
    ...I think the real problem is the slavish devotion to "the world outside our window." Now, I do love the idea that Marvel Earth is basically our Earth + the various Marvel locals and characters, but I feel that Batman: The Animated Series got it right with its "neverwhere" setting that looked like the early 40's but mixed in a lot of modern technology, etc. When they did Superman, it was updated to a quasi-late 50's/early 60's design with futuristic leanings.
    Aside from the sliding timeline issues one advantage DC has in using fictional settings (Gotham and Metropolis), is that you don't have to worry about the locale aging. Daredevil and Luke Cage's "mean streets" just aren't the kind of hellhole New York had to offer back in the 1970s.

  3. #63
    Astonishing Member vitruvian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    I wasnít suggesting they would. I am the kind of person that never worried about this, however worrying about Xavier in Korea seems an odd one given that it isnít one that is particularly broken. Nothing about the story relies on a historic event, just a location and two soldiers.

    My point was that the Korea origin gives us a starting age. It tells us approximately how old Xavier was supposed to be and then allows us to work out approximately how old he is now IF one uses the sliding timescale (which I mostly believe is useless and no longer editorial policy -if it ever really was) and when we do this he still seems about the right age.
    As long as the (current) story doesn't explicitly mention that it was the Korean War, which ended in 1953, sure. But if you avoid hard dates and topical references wherever possible, then it's not even a matter of looking at ratios or anything like that; it's simply that anything not tied to real-world events, but to the modern superheroic era beginning with the FF's debut, happened within the last ten to fifteen years. And so long as Peter Parker isn't allowed to break thirty years of age, and started his Spider-Man career at age 15, that muchis certainly editorial policy.

  4. #64
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zetsubou View Post
    In the 1960's, Tony Stark used to say his Iron Man armor had transistors. But that is an ancient relic by today's standards. Stark used his armor as a pacemaker. But today you could get a pacemaker so he never needed a chunky suit of armor to keep his heart beating. You could fit a computer worth 2 terabytes of data inside your pocket.
    Wasn't the chestplate actually keeping a piece of shrapnel from puncturing Stark's heart? I never got the impression it acted as a pacemaker.

  5. #65
    Fantastic Member strathcona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zetsubou View Post
    In the 1960's, Tony Stark used to say his Iron Man armor had transistors. But that is an ancient relic by today's standards. Stark used his armor as a pacemaker. But today you could get a pacemaker so he never needed a chunky suit of armor to keep his heart beating. You could fit a computer worth 2 terabytes of data inside your pocket.
    In my head I just pretend that tech in the MU 15 years ago was at a place where the real world was in 1961. It's because of people like Richards, Stark, Pym and others that their world has advanced so much, so fast. This is something I never expect to see acknowledged in the actual stories, but I will just have in my headcanon.

  6. #66
    Astonishing Member vitruvian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abe View Post
    True. But reading that Reed and Ben served together during Desert Storm still doesn't feel right to me, even if that's not an essential part of the characters. Also I love the FF origin story despite its weaknesses. And I love it because it happens in 1961. I personally don't feel any need to see it changed : in comics as I said I wouldn't care to give any importance to any new origin story- unless it was a very good take on the characters. Ad for a movie I'm all for a time displaced FF team (and I think I'm in the minority for that). I actually liked the X-men movies set in the past for that very reason. Yes I did!
    Okay, but if their origin occurs in 1961, then either they came forward in time without aging at some point (whether through time travel per se or suspended animation like Cap or maybe time dilation while traveling the stars), or they are chronologically quite old; Reed and Ben would likely be pushing a century at least. And even with any break points in their chronology, you would have to resolve other questions, like is Franklin Richards' birth as inextricably tied to 1968 as you feel the foursome's origin is tied to the early 60s?

  7. #67
    Astonishing Member vitruvian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strathcona View Post
    In my head I just pretend that tech in the MU 15 years ago was at a place where the real world was in 1961. It's because of people like Richards, Stark, Pym and others that their world has advanced so much, so fast. This is something I never expect to see acknowledged in the actual stories, but I will just have in my headcanon.
    Either that, or it's actually the 70s there and it just looks like 2018 because change has happened so fast. Either/or works. But yes, I too love the 'Reed Richards and Tony Stark AREN'T Useless' concept. Along with Phil Noto's 60s and 70s styled Hank Pym photo albums - http://philnoto.com/hank-pym-photo-archives

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