Would the world be a better place if the USA didn't exist?

[DrNewGod]

The USA proved that Democracy Can Work. Only time will tell if it can work Long-Term or not.

No, Athens proved a democracy could work, back before the invention of the saddle stirrup. The USA is not, and never was a democracy. It is a republic whose authority is diffused among four major entities, with the leaders of those entities appointed by means varying from popular vote to internal government consensus.

[DrNewGod]

No US probably means Nazi Germany wins and rules the world right now...

The Russians would disagree.

[Güicho]

With out the USA there would be far less racism in the world. The US has some of the most racist and bigoted people on the planet.

washingtonpost- https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.ef1f8f98083f

Take for what it's worth.
Obviously fact check the "data" yourself. And yeah if you haven't try living in some other countries.

I am curious what other counties you have lived in Jackmando7?

LOL at France, on that map, the only one in the western world approaching red.

[Jackmando7]

There were fundamental differences between the North and the South, even during colonial times. If we suppose that the US never exists, you'd probably see:

- A split among the 13 (N v. S).
- France keep the Louisiana Purchase only for it to become it's own country.
- A larger Canada.
- A larger Mexico.
- A conglomeration of Native American Tribes in the West.
- California probably becomes it's own country.
- A lot more open conflict and war among Mexico, California, Louisiana Purchase country, Canada, Native Americans, and whatever the 13 colonies become.
- A good chance that most of North America not under British purview being a third-world country ... so the LP country and Canada might be okay.

None of that sounds better. Except Canada might be the forefront of things instead. Which might be better. Hmm ...

But that's supposing that the colonies stay away from Britain as opposed to being absorbed back or into France or even Spain.

Maybe France rules the world then? Until till Germany comes knocking ...

No US probably means Nazi Germany wins and rules the world right now. That sounds terrible compared to what we have now (a fighting chance to right the ship).

I've heard the US great depression and the effect it had world wide was one of the main reasons the Nazi's were able to rise to power.

[ZombieHavoc]

The American Empire is on its last leg, I'm quite sure.

[BeastieRunner]

The Russians would disagree.

Point taken. Then Russia rules the world.

I've heard the US great depression and the effect it had world wide was one of the main reasons the Nazi's were able to rise to power.

The Nazi party was in play before the Great Depression. It helped them gain traction faster but it was inevitable given the climate. I've read more papers that show that the Depression just helped leg out the wait to war. No Depression probably means Hitler rises to power faster and stronger (because Germany wouldn't be broken) and they take Russia out of the game as a first strike, not Poland. That's what some think.

If you take US out of play for the Great Depression, you probably get to WWII faster. And it would've been longer.

A prolonged Hitler/Stalin/Hirohito slugfest would've been bad ... then you have Italy.

I have a hunch the world would look like the 1950s right about now, technology wise.

[ZombieHavoc]

If you take US out of play for the Great Depression, you probably get to WWII faster. And it would've been longer.

And a bunch of people in Hiroshima and Nagasaki would've lived longer too.

[BeastieRunner]

And a bunch of people in Hiroshima and Nagasaki would've lived longer too.

But still died.

You'd have China get rolling (if they could) and Russia take the Pacific front of the war.

Island hopping to the big island.

You'd see Normandy-style beach landings on 3 fronts.

Japan would be toasted. They would go all out defending their homeland.

You'd probably see a lot of genocide.

But hey! No more Koreas.

OR

Russia does not engage in the war against Japan.

Defeating Germany without US logistics support would have required USSR effort they did not posses. Russian intel was dead. Briton intel was toasted. Without the US, Russia can't coordinate against Germany. That logistic support is often over looked. We were the backbone of intel.

China was already reeling from civil war. They could lash back into the USSR for some reason. If the Japanese had bypassed the Philippines and taken Indochina and the Dutch East Indies, Japan would have secured the oil and other resources they needed to keep their military machine running. Japan rules the world?

If the Japanese had avoided attacking British possessions when they avoided attacking Pearl Harbor and the Philippines, the Japanese would have found that their only major enemy was China, which was in the death throes of their civil war. The Chinese Communists under Mao would have gotten far less support from the USSR. It is likely that all or most of China would have fallen under the Japanese Empire.

Cue genocide.

[ZombieHavoc]

Might makes right, I guess.

[BeastieRunner]

Might makes right, I guess.

There'd be a lot less diverse people on our planet for sure.

[ZombieHavoc]

I get it. We are America. We bomb ****, bigly.

[Mister Mets]

Maybe the CSA never forms?

With out the USA there would be far less racism in the world. The US has some of the most racist and bigoted people on the planet.

We're not as aware of bigotry in other countries, since these are often less ethnically diverse. It isn't a lack of racism if other races aren't allowed in to begin with.

There are issues in other countries that haven't been as publicized, like the restrictions on the 100,000,000+ Chinese people who aren't Han Chinese.

Domestically, too, the Chinese have severely strained relations with their major minority groups, especially Tibetans and Uighurs, a Muslim Central Asian people who live mainly in the country's far West. Discriminatory policies have suppressed these groups' religion and culture. According to an August report in the Chinese press, a county government in the province of Qinghai removed loudspeakers from hundreds of mosques to prevent the "noise pollution" of the regular calls to prayer.

Economically, members of these minority communities often feel they don't have equal access to jobs, education and other opportunities. The subsequent fomenting resentment has occasionally boiled over into protests and violence, such as in Lhasa, the Tibetan capital, in 2008 and Urumqi, the capital of Xinjiang province, in 2009. Uighur groups have even been blamed for acts of terror. In 2013, three Uighurs plowed an SUV through a crowd in Tiananmen Square in central Beijing, killing themselves and two pedestrians.

Gray Tuttle, a professor of Tibetan studies at Columbia University, sees these policies on minorities as "an expression of deep-seated ethnic prejudices and racism at the core of contemporary Chinese society." These sentiments, Tuttle explains, are rooted in late-19th century ideas of Chinese nationalism, and were reinforced by the new Communist government in the 1950s, which began categorizing minority groups and propagating negative views of them. If the discrimination continues, Tuttle adds, it "will undermine Beijing's efforts to foster a 'harmonious society' and present China as a model to the rest of the world

[Mister Mets]

But still died.

You'd have China get rolling (if they could) and Russia take the Pacific front of the war.

Island hopping to the big island.

You'd see Normandy-style beach landings on 3 fronts.

Japan would be toasted. They would go all out defending their homeland.

You'd probably see a lot of genocide.

But hey! No more Koreas.

OR

Russia does not engage in the war against Japan.

Defeating Germany without US logistics support would have required USSR effort they did not posses. Russian intel was dead. Briton intel was toasted. Without the US, Russia can't coordinate against Germany. That logistic support is often over looked. We were the backbone of intel.

China was already reeling from civil war. They could lash back into the USSR for some reason. If the Japanese had bypassed the Philippines and taken Indochina and the Dutch East Indies, Japan would have secured the oil and other resources they needed to keep their military machine running. Japan rules the world?

If the Japanese had avoided attacking British possessions when they avoided attacking Pearl Harbor and the Philippines, the Japanese would have found that their only major enemy was China, which was in the death throes of their civil war. The Chinese Communists under Mao would have gotten far less support from the USSR. It is likely that all or most of China would have fallen under the Japanese Empire.

Cue genocide.

As another counterfactual, there's a major element of luck that the current United States was populated by people who would rebel and want individual rights (as imperfect as the understanding of that was.) The world wouldn't be better if a different ideology had taken root in a land with these resources.

[BeastieRunner]

As another counterfactual, there's a major element of luck that the current United States was populated by people who would rebel and want individual rights (as imperfect as the understanding of that was.) The world wouldn't be better if a different ideology had taken root in a land with these resources.

While America is far from perfect or the best all the time, when you look at all the regimes and such that rose and fell quickly during the time-frame of the US ... it does make you thankful at times things are the way they are. Warts and all.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

I get it. We are America. We bomb ****, bigly.

America's not perfect, but there were so many worse leaders that could have had an even bigger if not a predominate impact on the world whether you agree with everything America's done or not. America just has the double edged sword of being the lead hegemony of the Western World. Yeah Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a major black mark for us, does that excuse Japan bombing Pearl Harbor? Was a prolonged war a better answer?

There was never a predominate power in the world that didn't have it's share of problems. It's easy to point to all the bad stuff and say the world would be better off without it. That's just not reality. Someone else is going to take it's place. Was the British Empire better? Was the Roman Empire better? Would a Russian dominated world have been better? Would China as the predominate world power be better? Realistically I don't see much of an argument for that.