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  1. #46
    Pro Mutant Anarchist's Avatar
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    Honestly (off-topic yeah, but nobody even seems to bother anymore) I wouldn't give Felicity the fault for Cayden James' actions, but ARGUS. Their illegal and inhumane imprisonment is what caused James to go from hacktivist to mass murderer in the first place.

    Oh, and Diaz murdering his son off course.

    dude has been beaten down horribly by Diaz (granted, Diaz cheated a little, but Oliver was already doing no better than 50/50 before that)
    That.....is not what happened.
    Oliver had him beat. Can't blame the dude for losing his grip when getting a fucking knife into his stomach.

    The final battle was just the same basically. Diaz stood up to him a little, then Oliver went 'Enough with this shit!' and beat his ass.
    Don't know why people always complain about that one.

    (Besides, Diaz is no complete rookie, he defeated Thea and fought evenly with John before)
    Last edited by Anarchist; 05-22-2018 at 07:12 AM.

  2. #47
    Captain Obvious big_adventure's Avatar
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    Oliver did NOT have him "beat" in the first fight. He was taking at least as much as he was dishing; and was visibly injured and suffering. Yes, he managed some advantage right before stabby stabby, but he took a ludicrous amount of pounding before that.

    And in this most recent fight, Diaz hits Oliver, and with visibly more effective shots, than Oliver lands on him. Oliver manages a couple of harmless tosses. Diaz has him on the ropes, basically, then Oliver manages 3 quick jabs which opens up some space, then Oliver resorts to an edged weapon. This does not kill Diaz, and they were about to fight some more, when NotLaurel shows up and stupidly launches him off the roof. Diaz was in AT LEAST as good a condition as Oliver, after fighting better than Oliver up until that point.

    This also completely fails to address why Oliver never, in multiple, repeated, obvious chances, in that case while standing on the rooftop, when Diaz was pounding Curtis, in several other instances, never just shot the guy in both legs or both arms with arrows. Or just used some kind of gas, or taser arrow or something. He's got that stuff, after all.

  3. #48
    Astonishing Member Cody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchist View Post
    Honestly (off-topic yeah, but nobody even seems to bother anymore) I wouldn't give Felicity the fault for Cayden James' actions, but ARGUS. Their illegal and inhumane imprisonment is what caused James to go from hacktivist to mass murderer in the first place.
    Thank you, yes. Keeping someone in a shipping container for over a decade all alone is going to fuck them up in the head something fierce.

    The final battle was just the same basically. Diaz stood up to him a little, then Oliver went 'Enough with this shit!' and beat his ass.
    Don't know why people always complain about that one.
    Pretty much, and even then the only reason he "stood up" to Oliver is because Oliver was purposely prolonging the fight so they could finish hacking his flash drive. Once it was done, he dropped him with a few hits like the punk he was.

    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Oliver did NOT have him "beat" in the first fight. He was taking at least as much as he was dishing; and was visibly injured and suffering. Yes, he managed some advantage right before stabby stabby, but he took a ludicrous amount of pounding before that.

    And in this most recent fight, Diaz hits Oliver, and with visibly more effective shots, than Oliver lands on him. Oliver manages a couple of harmless tosses. Diaz has him on the ropes, basically, then Oliver manages 3 quick jabs which opens up some space, then Oliver resorts to an edged weapon. This does not kill Diaz, and they were about to fight some more, when NotLaurel shows up and stupidly launches him off the roof. Diaz was in AT LEAST as good a condition as Oliver, after fighting better than Oliver up until that point.

    This also completely fails to address why Oliver never, in multiple, repeated, obvious chances, in that case while standing on the rooftop, when Diaz was pounding Curtis, in several other instances, never just shot the guy in both legs or both arms with arrows. Or just used some kind of gas, or taser arrow or something. He's got that stuff, after all.
    PIS aside, as I pointed out(several times now)the fight only lasted so long at the end because they were hacking into the flash drive. Once that was done, Oliver took him out with a few punches and a toss, casually. It was rather clear Oliver wasn't fighting seriously until that point.

    There was no excuse for their first fight however. Though we could just assume he has the same training as his comicbook counterpart I suppose..only thing that would make sense.
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  4. #49
    Postin' since Aug '05 Dalak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    Evil Speedster #3 with armor was at least capable of suffering genuine setbacks at several points throughout the season without having to contrive crap like "he can't predict feelings!", despite spending the majority of the season accounting for emotions just fine because whoops! We just realized we wrote ourselves into a corner with making this guy completely unbeatable so we need to ass pull a reason for victory.

    DeVoe has done nothing but smarmily make the heroes look like complete incompetents again and again and again, while doing things like straight up spending an episode demonstrating that a heartfelt moment between Barry and Ralph about the nature of heroism accomplished nothing but getting Ralph killed for not killing the Thinker when he had the chance. It has been a depressing, pointless and frustrating and almost nihilistically dark season despite starting with some genuine promise, to such a degree that the inevitable "whoops it's the end of the season so the heroes have to finally win now" feels completely unearned on a level of narrative and instead just contrived.

    Evil Speedster #3 was also not part of a season that is ultimately revealing itself to have an underlying and kinda ugly anti intellectual streak as a theme, which has its own problems ("you don't need your intellect to be useful Harry, just feelings!" "Science won't restore Killer Frost, just feelings!" "Intellect won't beat the Thinker, feelings will!" almost all pretty much actual dialogue.)
    After seeing the finale, I'm feeling much the same.

  5. #50
    Captain Obvious big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalak View Post
    After seeing the finale, I'm feeling much the same.
    I feel like I lost 6 IQ points watching that episode.

    I might never comment about speedster PIS ever again. Or any PIS. CW Flash just owns the world championship in that, in perpetuity.

  6. #51
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalak View Post
    After seeing the finale, I'm feeling much the same.
    The show presenting it as supercool and great that Wells lost his intellect because it made him "balanced" was.. gross as eff on every possible level of implications.

    Not quite as gross as Marlize "I willingly and without mind control was part of a plan I knew was going to lobotomize the world and involved at least one murder of an innocent person before even a hint of mind control was done to me, but it's okay, I did it all for love" Devoe getting a straight up hug and being merrily sent on her way like she had done nothing wrong, but still. She is the entire reason the plan was able to happen, at all, she knew what the plan was, she was totally onboard with it, this was of her own free will, and the DeVoe couple at minimum murdered Brainwave well before she was being mind controlled. She built the machine that murdered him. But naaaaah, who cares! Hug time!

    Christ what a terrible season.
    Last edited by Pendaran; 05-23-2018 at 03:38 AM.

  7. #52
    Captain Obvious big_adventure's Avatar
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    Well, you know, at least next season we're going to evidently get Flashpoint Part Deux: This Time With Extra Estrogen. So we've got that going for us, which is nice.

  8. #53
    Pro Mutant Anarchist's Avatar
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    But hey, at least spoilers:
    Ralph survived.
    end of spoilers

    The guy was what Ray Palmer was to Arrow Season 3 - the only good thing to come out of it.

  9. #54
    Postin' since Aug '05 Dalak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    I feel like I lost 6 IQ points watching that episode.

    I might never comment about speedster PIS ever again. Or any PIS. CW Flash just owns the world championship in that, in perpetuity.
    That whole thing with the chair was completely unnecessary. spoilers:
    If you were to cut right from Ralph taking over to "He set up a Satellite to fall!" there'd be nothing lost and it woulnd't feel quite so stupid.
    end of spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    The show presenting it as supercool and great that Wells lost his intellect because it made him "balanced" was.. gross as eff on every possible level of implications.

    Not quite as gross as Marlize "I willingly and without mind control was part of a plan I knew was going to lobotomize the world and involved at least one murder of an innocent person before even a hint of mind control was done to me, but it's okay, I did it all for love" Devoe getting a straight up hug and being merrily sent on her way like she had done nothing wrong, but still. She is the entire reason the plan was able to happen, at all, she knew what the plan was, she was totally onboard with it, this was of her own free will, and the DeVoe couple at minimum murdered Brainwave well before she was being mind controlled. She built the machine that murdered him. But naaaaah, who cares! Hug time!

    Christ what a terrible season.
    I agree with Anarchist, the only good thing to come out of this season was Ralph. I wish I knew for sure why they were trying to convince their audience that Smarts = Bad, because the only reasons I can come up with are conspiracy-theoretical political BS.

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