West Coast Avengers Announced by Kelly Thompson

[JKtheMac]

I honestly notice this in different Fandoms be it Metal or silly stuff like Wrestling.
Elitism is a bitch no matter where and when.

However, statements like ‘I only liked their first album’ or ‘they sold out when they had that big hit’ are not quite the same as ‘how dare this record label sign a band who play a slightly different genre of music’.

[Prof. Warren]

That book was a maxiseries from the start and would never have gone past 12 issues regardless of how well it sold, and even if King hadn't gone to DC to do Batman.

King had ideas to go beyond twelve if the demand was there for it. Marvel surely would've continued the book for another arc, at least, had King stayed on.

[Kintor]

The statement ‘now that Marvel’s iconic heroes are being restored’ encapsulates so much that I don’t like about comic fandom.

Marvel's classic heroes are iconic for a reason, these are the select few characters that have endured and thrived in the highly competitive world of popular culture for decades. The original creators might have grown old and retired but Marvel can keep telling stories about Iron Man and the Hulk forever. It's only the conceit and cynicism of Marvel's current creative talent that they conspired to replace those iconic characters; all the while using recognised mantles, the hard work of those that came before, to sell cheap knock-off characters. I can't respect Marvel when they so recklessly destroy what made them successful in the first place, just as they are doing all over again with WCA.

[JKtheMac]

Marvel's classic heroes are iconic for a reason, these are the select few characters that have endured and thrived in the highly competitive world of popular culture for decades. The original creators might have grown old and retired but Marvel can keep telling stories about Iron Man and the Hulk forever. It's only the conceit and cynicism of Marvel's current creative talent that they conspired to replace those iconic characters; all the while using recognised mantles, the hard work of those that came before, to sell cheap knock-off characters. I can't respect Marvel when they so recklessly destroy what made them successful in the first place, just as they are doing all over again with WCA.

Marvels heroes have rarely counted as unchanging iconic characters. They did in the nineties and early 2000s but I wasn’t interested in reading about characters that don’t change so I didn’t. My perspective is that far from there being two types of stories, one of which being about changing characters and one being about unchanging characters, there are just good and bad stories about characters. Some really bad stories make a virtue of characters that never change and change everyone else.

[Prof. Warren]

Marvel's classic heroes are iconic for a reason, these are the select few characters that have endured and thrived in the highly competitive world of popular culture for decades. The original creators might have grown old and retired but Marvel can keep telling stories about Iron Man and the Hulk forever. It's only the conceit and cynicism of Marvel's current creative talent that they conspired to replace those iconic characters; all the while using recognised mantles, the hard work of those that came before, to sell cheap knock-off characters. I can't respect Marvel when they so recklessly destroy what made them successful in the first place, just as they are doing all over again with WCA.

Legacy characters have been a staple of comics forever. No comic reader with a fu*king brain ever thinks that the original is going to be shelved for good.

Complaining about, say, Ironheart as though Iron Man was destroyed to make room for her is like someone being dumb enough to think DC actually intended for Steel, Superboy and Cyborg Superman to be permanent replacements for Superman.

You don't have to like these characters, or the storylines that introduced them, but to be so completely dense as to think that Legacy characters are meant to supplant the originals long term is just ridiculous and shows a complete ignorance of comics. When Sam Wilson becomes Cap, when Jane Foster becomes Thor, when Riri Williams becomes Ironheart, these are just chapters in a larger, never-ending story. For anyone to freak out about them as though they think the originals will never come back is literally the stupidest, most short-sighted reaction one could have.

And as far as this new iteration of WCA goes, if this team and creative approach doesn't appeal to some people, that's fine.

But believe me, the Avengers brand will survive its existence, no matter how many might want to cry about it.

[Daniel22]

I honestly notice this in different Fandoms be it Metal or silly stuff like Wrestling.
Elitism is a bitch no matter where and when.

It exists everywhere to an extent, but I find it's much smaller in my other interests. When I'm talking about mystery/thriller novels I hear "I stopped reading Connelly's Harry Bosch series a while ago, he just lost my interest". And that's it, that person doesn't say it's insulting that he still makes novels, or call them trash, or insult people who DO still like that series, or claim some sort of psychic insight into the heart of the creator.They just move on. I'm sure if you did an internet search you could find examples of people complaining about them, but you can find people saying anything online. My point is that I encounter much more of this elitist, entitled behavior in comics than anywhere else.

[Daniel22]

Am I missing something with Tumblr? Why is it presented as some sort of powerful shadow organization dedicated to the downfall of comics?

I must be drastically underestimating its power and reach. It clearly can take down whole industries. It's talked about is such a way here by a few posters that I picture Dr. Claw from Inspector Gadget whenever Tumblr is brought up. I just see a computer screen and a hand, bringing about doom with keystrokes and screenshots.

[Kintor]

Marvels heroes have rarely counted as unchanging iconic characters. They did in the nineties and early 2000s but I wasn’t interested in reading about characters that don’t change so I didn’t. My perspective is that far from there being two types of stories, one of which being about changing characters and one being about unchanging characters, there are just good and bad stories about characters. Some really bad stories make a virtue of characters that never change and change everyone else.

Well, as a 90s kid I became aware of Marvel's characters and their iconic importance to popular culture. Not just through the comics but also through the cartoons. During the 90s Marvel had a host a cartoons on TV; the best of which was X-Men (as arguably the definitive version of the team) but also Iron Man, The Hulk, Fantastic Four and of course Spider-Man. Not to mention a short-lived Silver Surfer cartoon that ended on a cliff-hanger, never to be resolved.

Often these 90s cartoons would draw upon decades of Marvel comics to find material for each episode, in a manner not too different what the movies would later do. This proved to me the timeless quality of Marvel's iconic heroes, these characters could be introduced again and again to each generation and never get old. It's only the short-sightedness of modern Marvel to squander a good thing and deny modern readers access to those same iconic characters.

[Prof. Warren]

Well, as a 90s kid I became aware of Marvel's characters and their iconic importance to popular culture. Not just through the comics but also through the cartoons. During the 90s Marvel had a host a cartoons on TV; the best of which was X-Men (as arguably the definitive version of the team) but also Iron Man, The Hulk, Fantastic Four and of course Spider-Man. Not to mention a short-lived Silver Surfer cartoon that ended on a cliff-hanger, never to be resolved.

Often these 90s cartoons would draw upon decades of Marvel comics to find material for each episode, in a manner not too different what the movies would later do. This proved to me the timeless quality of Marvel's iconic heroes, these characters could be introduced again and again to each generation and never get old. It's only the short-sightedness of modern Marvel to squander a good thing and deny modern readers access to those same iconic characters.

Modern readers have absolutely no lack of "access" to any iconic character.

There are decades worth of material with every character waiting to be explored in trades and back issues.

If a current storyline has momentarily benched a character in favor of a Legacy version, something which has happened to pretty much every major character from both Marvel and DC over the years, it's not an impediment to a new reader. Often times, the excitement around a Legacy character will be the thing that actually entices new readers to start reading or lures back old ones.

Whether it be the intrigue surrounding a new Batman, or a new Captain America, or Flash or Spider-Man - Legacy characters are a comic book tradition that has introduced many fan favorite characters and storylines and never once has the original been permanently destroyed in the process.

[Skedatz]

If this series gets beyond 10 issues, I bet we see Mockingbird join the crew.

[ed2962]

Am I missing something with Tumblr? Why is it presented as some sort of powerful shadow organization dedicated to the downfall of comics?

I must be drastically underestimating its power and reach. It clearly can take down whole industries. It's talked about is such a way here by a few posters that I picture Dr. Claw from Inspector Gadget whenever Tumblr is brought up. I just see a computer screen and a hand, bringing about doom with keystrokes and screenshots.

The stereotype is that Tumblr is dominated by young women and girls and that those girls are mostly feminist and that the feminists are trying to ruin geek culture for the Lulz.

[9th.]

King had ideas to go beyond twelve if the demand was there for it. Marvel surely would've continued the book for another arc, at least, had King stayed on.

I didn't know this, I'm sad now

[Daniel22]

The stereotype is that Tumblr is dominated by young women and girls and that those girls are mostly feminist and that the feminists are trying to ruin geek culture for the Lulz.

Why is that site presented as having so much power? By lulz you mean for the hell of it, right?

Thanks for the clarification... I was saying it in a joking manner but I am truly lost as to why Tumblr is brought up so much and said to have so much influence on comics.

[JKtheMac]

Am I missing something with Tumblr? Why is it presented as some sort of powerful shadow organization dedicated to the downfall of comics?

I must be drastically underestimating its power and reach. It clearly can take down whole industries. It's talked about is such a way here by a few posters that I picture Dr. Claw from Inspector Gadget whenever Tumblr is brought up. I just see a computer screen and a hand, bringing about doom with keystrokes and screenshots.

The power of block suggests it will never be. For me Tumblr is a lot more functional and diverse than twitter, which seems designed to make arguing easier. But for some a diverse range of voices is threatening I guess.

Tumblr isn't exactly exploding about WCA. Mostly its just people reblogging the various interviews and the cover art.

The stereotype is that Tumblr is dominated by young women and girls and that those girls are mostly feminist and that the feminists are trying to ruin geek culture for the Lulz.

Ha ha. That is very odd indeed. I see a whole lot of unreconstructed content on tumblr, and of course men can be feminists too. Obviously as a feminist I am also trying to ruin geek culture. I just didn't know it!

[Triniking1234]

Legacy characters have been a staple of comics forever. No comic reader with a fu*king brain ever thinks that the original is going to be shelved for good.

Complaining about, say, Ironheart as though Iron Man was destroyed to make room for her is like someone being dumb enough to think DC actually intended for Steel, Superboy and Cyborg Superman to be permanent replacements for Superman.

You don't have to like these characters, or the storylines that introduced them, but to be so completely dense as to think that Legacy characters are meant to supplant the originals long term is just ridiculous and shows a complete ignorance of comics. When Sam Wilson becomes Cap, when Jane Foster becomes Thor, when Riri Williams becomes Ironheart, these are just chapters in a larger, never-ending story. For anyone to freak out about them as though they think the originals will never come back is literally the stupidest, most short-sighted reaction one could have.

And as far as this new iteration of WCA goes, if this team and creative approach doesn't appeal to some people, that's fine.

But believe me, the Avengers brand will survive its existence, no matter how many might want to cry about it.

You'll never know when you'll get another Wally West, Kyle Rayner or Tim Drake situation so there's nothing ridiculous about it.