West Coast Avengers Announced by Kelly Thompson

[JKtheMac]

Of course the editorial team will probably remain consistent with Hawkeye, so Sana Amanat will probably be assistant editor on WCA. Discussing her is actually on topic! Presumably Alanna Smith will remain editor too.

P.S. The latter is confirmed. Good to know as Alanna always comes across as a fellow fan.

[The Dying Detective]

Actually I wonder if you continued with Black Panther, Coates absolutely does understand how to write comics, despite a couple of trades finding his voice. He writes very good comics I am happy to keep reading. Your perspective on his talents may vary but Marvel are not employing him to write essays, and he isn’t.

I have yet to return to America as a book because it was clearly not written for me, but I would take any assertion that it espouses a radical perspective with a huge pinch of salt.

I don't know I tried to get into the stuff he wrote but I lost interest in it after a while just wasn't exciting enough. America wasn't written for either neither was it written for my friend but she reads it for various reasons.

[The Dying Detective]

I agree in so much as if I where in her shoes, I probably wouldn't have used that exact phrase..."lifestyle". But lifestyle advertising is nothing new. It's what you see when you're watching a commercial for a product and instead of telling product A is better than product B; you see people frolicking on the beach, laughing with their family, having a night on the town...it's been going on for literally decades. I guess they're trying to say though, "Hey you like the Iron Man movie, wear the Iron Man T-shirt, and play the Iron Man video game...buy the Iron Man comic book to augment your Iron Man lifestyle," or something. We're in this weird state now where Marvel and DC are now re-branding themselves as "Entertainment" companies instead of just comic book companies because the properties based on the comics are way more popular than the comics themselves ( or at least the floppies).

Well whatever reason it is for Amanat to choose such weird wording all I can only guess that whatever plan they have in mind might just be an attempt to have their cake and eat it too by trying keep the new characters they have created while trying to prop up their old characters. Consideirng the makeover given to Ironheart and Amadeus Cho I honestly see this to be the case.

[JKtheMac]

I don't know I tried to get into the stuff he wrote but I lost interest in it after a while just wasn't exciting enough. America wasn't written for either neither was it written for my friend but she reads it for various reasons.

Well I can only say I was also finding BP a bit of a drag and very nearly dropped it. I even said here somewhere I wasn’t sure why I was still reading it. But I didn’t actually drop it and read a few issues in a row and found myself really enjoying it. It felt to me that he found his voice and style, and most importantly he found a pace that worked for him. Then slowly a lot of the early stuff started to be tied back in thematically and it all kind of clicked for me. Which ironically I was saying might happen early on when I was reading the first issue. So if you get a chance to catch up on something like MU or back issues it might be worth a read and see if you are also surprised by how well it ends up.

As a contrast I don’t think Guggenheim knows how to write comics yet and he has been doing it longer.

[Triniking1234]

You need to read Coates' Black Panther in trades like with manga or graphic novels.

[skyvolt2000]

Well whatever it is she also said a hope that Marvel would be a lifestyle brand that's where my suspicions lie in. Sounds awkward for a company whose primary objective is to publish stories for entertainment not self-help books.

Well..... that depends on the book in question.

A self help book is not always an actual self help book like (blank) for Dummies.

It can be ANYTHING including a regular comic book.

I will put it to you like this-while the Echo Chamber, Ed2962's friend Black Frankenstein and others find it offensive to go after others including girls. From a BUSINESS & mental stand point it's not.

Lets say you're Virgil Hawkins (Static) and you want to read a book with someone who looks like you. You go to the book store and here are your choices.

1) you get killed by cop
2) you get killed by another black male in the hood
3) you are a drug dealer
4) you are forever in the hood
5) former jailbird/gang member
6) womanizer
7) black kid from the hood at a white school
8) you are a dumb jock/rapper
9) you live with momma and have no father
10) you are the black nerd that no black kid likes at school
These are the books that are FOREVER in bulk at Wal-Mart and the libraries.

So from a mental standpoint-that is all Virgil thinks he can be and will probably be disinterested in books.

Now lets toss in a Miles Morales book-guess whose attitude changes? He is looking for more and finds-Static, Cage, Falcon, Midnight Tiger, Black and Panther.

That is the lifestyle change to go from not wanting to read to wanting to READ.

All of us on here did not start reading comics via the SAME folks. My first books were Transformers 1-3, FF 283, Get Along Gang 3, WCA 54, Uncanny X-Men 262-292, New Mutants 99 & New Warriors 1-32.

I think a lot of us forget that. So while this book might not be of interest to some-it might be to others.

[ed2962]

Well whatever reason it is for Amanat to choose such weird wording all I can only guess that whatever plan they have in mind might just be an attempt to have their cake and eat it too by trying keep the new characters they have created while trying to prop up their old characters. Consideirng the makeover given to Ironheart and Amadeus Cho I honestly see this to be the case.

I think that was always the long range plan. Marvel and DC have been doing this in one form or another for years.

[Tiamatty]

Here is the CBS article that showed her quote and the Cebulski's it's a little off base as it mentions that Marvel was made mainly of white men when most of them were Jewish and trying to make it into a lifestyle brand that statement doesn't make any sense: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/marvel-...nese-pen-name/ . I don't say that something doesn't need to change in regards to how one treats women in comics both characters and creators alike. But there are somethings that need to stay in place just so thing remain fair for both women and men.

Oh hey, I was right, Amanat's comment was entirely about how Marvel has traditionally been perceived as being A Boy Thing and she's saying they're trying to change that perception to make it clear it's a place for everyone. So it wasn't at all a slight against guys. Despite the histrionics of alt-right pricks trying to paint it that way. How shocking.

As for the "lifestyle brand" bit, who gives a ****? It's corporate-speak. There's no conspiracy there. It's a buzzphrase.

[Tiamatty]

Well I can only say I was also finding BP a bit of a drag and very nearly dropped it. I even said here somewhere I wasn’t sure why I was still reading it. But I didn’t actually drop it and read a few issues in a row and found myself really enjoying it. It felt to me that he found his voice and style, and most importantly he found a pace that worked for him. Then slowly a lot of the early stuff started to be tied back in thematically and it all kind of clicked for me. Which ironically I was saying might happen early on when I was reading the first issue. So if you get a chance to catch up on something like MU or back issues it might be worth a read and see if you are also surprised by how well it ends up.

As a contrast I don’t think Guggenheim knows how to write comics yet and he has been doing it longer.

Coates has definitely been improving. His second year of Black Panther was some pretty solid comic-booking, and the new #1 was a fantastic comic book.

And yeah, Guggenheim is a hack.

As for America, no, there was nothing radical about it. At least, nothing that I, as someone who read the entire series, picked up on. Here's the closest it came: A story where Exterminatrix, posing as Sotomayor University's dean (or dean of campus security, maybe, I'd have to look it up and I'm lazy), imposed a bunch of new rules that were specifically designed to impair America. America's friends, a group that was mostly queer-coded WOC, rebelled against the new rules, in order to save America. And a handful of white guys opposed them while being pretty clearly racist and sexist. Imagine, a queer woman of colour, in the US in 2017, writing about new rules that primarily affect queers, women, and POCs, and writing about people from those groups fighting back. Stunning. Clearly this is radical anti-Americanism from a person who hates every single cishet white male on the planet.

Honestly, speaking as a cishet white guy, we are clearly the most fragile group of people you'll find, given how much we clutch at our pearls any time anyone else tries to talk about how the system is rigged in our favour.

[WebLurker]

Oh hey, I was right, Amanat's comment was entirely about how Marvel has traditionally been perceived as being A Boy Thing and she's saying they're trying to change that perception to make it clear it's a place for everyone. So it wasn't at all a slight against guys. Despite the histrionics of alt-right pricks trying to paint it that way. How shocking.

As for the "lifestyle brand" bit, who gives a ****? It's corporate-speak. There's no conspiracy there. It's a buzzphrase.

Yeah, I've seen YouTubers trying to spin this into the latest tendril of the "SJW Marvel" conspiracy. The arguments they put forward are asinine, at best, but that's par for the course with that little splinter faction.

[Skedatz]

Yeah, I've seen YouTubers trying to spin this into the latest tendril of the "SJW Marvel" conspiracy. The arguments they put forward are asinine, at best, but that's par for the course with that little splinter faction.

Gotta beware that boogeyman around every corner.

[WebLurker]

Gotta beware that boogeyman around every corner.

Even if it's all in their heads.

[The Dying Detective]

I think that was always the long range plan. Marvel and DC have been doing this in one form or another for years.

However this plan can be a little stupid when the characters themselves are little divisive. Though some like Damian Wayne and Kid Devil actually are better characters than expected and should be kept around. The issue with the current crop of Marvel's characters is that they are quite divisive and whether good writing can save their reputation is unknown.

[The Dying Detective]

Well..... that depends on the book in question.

A self help book is not always an actual self help book like (blank) for Dummies.

It can be ANYTHING including a regular comic book.

I will put it to you like this-while the Echo Chamber, Ed2962's friend Black Frankenstein and others find it offensive to go after others including girls. From a BUSINESS & mental stand point it's not.

Lets say you're Virgil Hawkins (Static) and you want to read a book with someone who looks like you. You go to the book store and here are your choices.

1) you get killed by cop
2) you get killed by another black male in the hood
3) you are a drug dealer
4) you are forever in the hood
5) former jailbird/gang member
6) womanizer
7) black kid from the hood at a white school
8) you are a dumb jock/rapper
9) you live with momma and have no father
10) you are the black nerd that no black kid likes at school
These are the books that are FOREVER in bulk at Wal-Mart and the libraries.

So from a mental standpoint-that is all Virgil thinks he can be and will probably be disinterested in books.

Now lets toss in a Miles Morales book-guess whose attitude changes? He is looking for more and finds-Static, Cage, Falcon, Midnight Tiger, Black and Panther.

That is the lifestyle change to go from not wanting to read to wanting to READ.

All of us on here did not start reading comics via the SAME folks. My first books were Transformers 1-3, FF 283, Get Along Gang 3, WCA 54, Uncanny X-Men 262-292, New Mutants 99 & New Warriors 1-32.

I think a lot of us forget that. So while this book might not be of interest to some-it might be to others.

Well nothing wrong with trying to get new customers however you have to remember your current fanbase because that was what kept your business alive this whole alienate them and you might not have enough money to make bank.

[Tiamatty]

However this plan can be a little stupid when the characters themselves are little divisive. Though some like Damian Wayne and Kid Devil actually are better characters than expected and should be kept around. The issue with the current crop of Marvel's characters is that they are quite divisive and whether good writing can save their reputation is unknown.

Almost any character can be made by the right story. Let's use Ironheart as an example, since she's arguably the most divisive. Now, there's a portion of the fanbase who will simply never accept her (or not for at least a decade, anyway). They made up their mind about her, and they're too damned stubborn and set in their ways to ever give her even a sliver of a chance, no matter who writes her. But a larger portion of the audience is going to quite enjoy her in Champions. If she gets solo hits the right tone at the right time, it could be a major success, much like Kamala Khan. And hey, 10 or 20 years from now, the people who bitch about her now will probably be bitching about Marvel using another newly-created black girl instead of giving Riri a push.

Well nothing wrong with trying to get new customers however you have to remember your current fanbase because that was what kept your business alive this whole alienate them and you might not have enough money to make bank.

Some portion of the fanbase felt alienated because Marvel was no longer catering exclusively to them. It was on those readers. Anything that isn't catering to them is going to piss them off, because they're so used to being the only ones Marvel caters to.