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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jump View Post
    It was great to see the way Harley was used throughout, it has probably been my favourite portrayal of her in years.

    I can see this story sticking around and I expect to be a mainstay of top ten Batman stories the same way Long Halloween, Arkham Asylum or Hush are always on the list.
    I agree it's going to be an evergreen. Super easy to explain and sell concept. Appealing art. Standalone story that is perfect for new and lapsed readers. A list Bat characters. It has all of the elements that go into making a lasting tpb seller. If Murphy makes himself a bigger name, I could see this cracking the top five selling trades eventually. It's not beating Arkham Asylum, Dark Knight Returns or Killing Joke but I think any others could be eclipsed.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. White View Post
    "Why try to address issues or themes from mainstream if you're going to use a different world to do so?" - Because if it was done mainstream, people may throw a tantrum that the writer is "trying to deconstruct Batman tropes and traditions".
    See, I don't really care about fans or their tantrums. If they enjoy the work, they can enjoy it. If they don't, they don't, and that's that. But this kind of story, particularly Jack's scheme against Batman, would've been compelling in a universe where Batman isn't just a one-dimensional, overly aggressive thug and Jack would've had more distrust towards him and his plead to reform, etc. Then again, I liked The Last Jedi.

    There's a bit of irony in your statement "...instead of talking like real people". This is a book that has a gator-man and one made of clay. #justsaying.
    Just because the science and physical details in that world are unrealistic doesn't mean the characters have to be. Characters are supposed to drive the story, not gimmicks. It's a little hard to get attached to characters when they wear their motivations and themes on their sleeve. Christopher Nolan's Batman movies had that same issue, and that's a more "realistic" take on the character.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by GamerSlyRatchet View Post
    See, I don't really care about fans or their tantrums. If they enjoy the work, they can enjoy it. If they don't, they don't, and that's that. But this kind of story, particularly Jack's scheme against Batman, would've been compelling in a universe where Batman isn't just a one-dimensional, overly aggressive thug and Jack would've had more distrust towards him and his plead to reform, etc. Then again, I liked The Last Jedi.



    Just because the science and physical details in that world are unrealistic doesn't mean the characters have to be. Characters are supposed to drive the story, not gimmicks. It's a little hard to get attached to characters when they wear their motivations and themes on their sleeve. Christopher Nolan's Batman movies had that same issue, and that's a more "realistic" take on the character.
    Quote Originally Posted by GamerSlyRatchet View Post
    See, I don't really care about fans or their tantrums. If they enjoy the work, they can enjoy it. If they don't, they don't, and that's that. But this kind of story, particularly Jack's scheme against Batman, would've been compelling in a universe where Batman isn't just a one-dimensional, overly aggressive thug and Jack would've had more distrust towards him and his plead to reform, etc. Then again, I liked The Last Jedi.



    Just because the science and physical details in that world are unrealistic doesn't mean the characters have to be. Characters are supposed to drive the story, not gimmicks. It's a little hard to get attached to characters when they wear their motivations and themes on their sleeve. Christopher Nolan's Batman movies had that same issue, and that's a more "realistic" take on the character.
    Ok. Get your distinction on "realistic" takes on characters vs. realistic science/physics of the world. I guess you mean something like Earth One Batman?
    Surprised at your critique of Batman's portrayal. While I won't call it one dimensional per say, I do recognise the "overly aggressive thug" as the one Murphy chose to put front and centre (let's face it Bats is quite aggressive). I wonder if you'd have found it one-dimensional if Murphy put forth the detective aspect of the character?
    All in all while it may not have been perfect, I did enjoy the take on the characters and world at large.

    By the way, there was nothing wrong with the Last Jedi

  4. #19
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    Fandoms will always disagree. Me, I like TLJ and I don't care about conservatives or SJW going at it online.

  5. #20
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aioros22 View Post
    Fandoms will always disagree. Me, I like TLJ and I don't care about conservatives or SJW going at it online.
    As someone yet to see the movie, without getting into spoilers, why would conservatives dislike TLJ?

  6. #21
    Astonishing Member Clark_Kent's Avatar
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    I waited for the tpb on this, instead of reading the floppies, and all I can say is...wow. I won't place this yet on my list of favorites because it's too new and fresh in my mind, but I would not be surprised if this ended up in my top 3 favorite Joker stories of all time. And, considering the twist on the title, it's perhaps my favorite Harley story. Time will tell.

    I read through some other threads, and saw many complaints...mainly that Batman was too grumpy, Murphy violated every law of man having Jason come first, Nightwing "wasn't right"...to all of which I say "read mainline Batman then." The whole point of out of continuity stories is to shake things up...otherwise there's no point and we should just read regular-universe Batman.

    White Knight takes an "everything you've seen or read about Batman in all forms of media happened, kinda, sorta, but perhaps you saw it in a cracked window" approach. And it's AWESOME. Take a look at the cover of the tpb and an interior shot of Joker's cell early on, and you could spend an hour just looking at all the easter eggs. Nicholson's Joker shooting down the Batwing, Lego Batman chasing Lego Joker, Detective Comics #27, The Animated Series, etc, it's all there. Batman buying Harley's dress from "Harley's Holiday" is even mentioned. There's so much to unpack here.

    There were some negatives, for me, but they were minor. I didn't like Batman's costume, and I thought Gordon flip-flopped back and forth a little too easily in his distrust/trust/distrust of Jack and Batman. And I thought NuHarley could have picked a better name than Neo Joker. But again, these things were small, and certainly didn't distract from my enjoyment.

    Murphy teased before that the tpb would have the uncensored version of White Knight, and in case anyone was looking for it the tpb IS, in fact, censored (talking about the Jack/Harley after sex scene). I see now that Murphy says he was incorrect and the uncensored version might be released next year, so I'm looking forward to hopefully getting my hands on it eventually (I've seen the scans online). I know it's a controversial subject, but I see no reason to exclude the nudity from an adult comic aimed at adults (shrug). I'm a big fan of letting art be art, and if you don't like the art then you shouldn't look at it but it shouldn't be censored or hidden. I don't *need* to see Harley's breasts, but since they were intended to be seen then I would prefer to experience the art as intended. I'm a grown-up who has seen breasts in real life, so comics don't bother me a bit :P Here's hoping there are options made for both sides of the fence...perhaps seal the uncensored so the kiddies at the LCS can't flip through it and then have the censored there for those who want it.

    Anyway, I digress. White Knight is a fantastic read, with some great art, and a truly unique look at Gotham to chew on. Highly recommended if you haven't read it yet.
    "Darkseid...always hated music..."

    Every post I make, it should be assumed by the reader that the following statement is attached: "It's all subjective. What works for me doesn't necessarily work for you, and vice versa, and that's ok. You may have a different opinion on it, but this is mine. That's the wonderful thing about being a comics fan, it's all subjective."

  7. #22
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    right now the elseworlds and the jla batman are better than the mainline one until king leaves. This is how you write batman in a new way while respecting who he is even if you disagree on the ways he does things

  8. #23
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonsense man View Post
    right now the elseworlds and the jla batman are better than the mainline one until king leaves. This is how you write batman in a new way while respecting who he is even if you disagree on the ways he does things
    You think so??

    It was an interesting Elseworlds story, but I don't see a whole lot of 'Respecting who he is' going on there. It was a lot more tearing down the character than it was anything else. When you have a story with Everyone from Gordon to Nightwing dismissing Batman as a loose cannon who's off the rails and hurting gotham more than the Joker ever did...

    That is absolutely NOT something I would ever want in the 'mainline' Books. As much as I dislike some of King's stuff... it's better that!

    It's fun for an elseworlds… but let's leave it at that.

  9. #24
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    It shows how a vigilante like batman would be treated in real life especially by the media and a corrupt police force. Batman was not deconstructed but gotham was acting like a real city and police force would think about an actual vigilante in their mist. Better than batman being reconstructed it was the city and the world around him instead. That is why I like it better than kings take for that reason batman was actually in character not the world

  10. #25
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonsense man View Post
    It shows how a vigilante like batman would be treated in real life especially by the media and a corrupt police force. Batman was not deconstructed but gotham was acting like a real city and police force would think about an actual vigilante in their mist. Better than batman being reconstructed it was the city and the world around him instead. That is why I like it better than kings take for that reason batman was actually in character not the world
    It was probably 'TOO real' then.

    That Batman wasn't the Batman I'd been reading for 40 years. It didn't fit the continuity, the mentality... it was a whole different character in a whole different world. A world that was fun to visit... but if a writer came in and tried to do THAT with the mainline Batman... I'd be fuming. It basically took 90's Batjerk and cranked it up thousand-fold into a threat that Batman never would become.

    It started strong... but it wasn't 'familiar' enough a world for me to get behind. It felt like a What-if Spider-man story where Jameson was right all along and Spider-man really WAS a menace to society who didn't care about the damage he caused... Fun idea for an issue, but if the writer REALLY believed that was the 'one right way' to write Spider-man… I wouldn't call it 'respectful' to the character.

  11. #26
    Amazing Member Wrestler's Avatar
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    I've just read it and I was really impressed by the art and story, the batmobiles were a great fan-service by the way.

    But I wasn't satisfied by how it was explained Harley planned the whole thing. I mean, she released the Joker and followed him to the lab where she planted the pills for him to swallow and then film the scene to make Batman look bad, knowing Joker would eventually provoke Batman to the point of forcing Joker take the pills, but how did she know he would go there in the first place?

  12. #27
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrestler View Post
    I've just read it and I was really impressed by the art and story, the batmobiles were a great fan-service by the way.

    But I wasn't satisfied by how it was explained Harley planned the whole thing. I mean, she released the Joker and followed him to the lab where she planted the pills for him to swallow and then film the scene to make Batman look bad, knowing Joker would eventually provoke Batman to the point of forcing Joker take the pills, but how did she know he would go there in the first place?
    I think this series really does go a little too far with Harley in terms of competence and overall narrative importance.

  13. #28
    Amazing Member Wrestler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think this series really does go a little too far with Harley in terms of competence and overall narrative importance.
    This end doesn't make any sense. Joker clearly knows about the pills in the beginning of the story ("You left me no choice, but to come here tonight, to prove it to you, with these (the pills), if I can get better..."), Harley thought Joker didn't know the plan, but he knew (he was the one who told Batman), but the question is, how did Harley intend her plan to work, I mean, to lead him directly at that particlar lab and take the pills?

    Really, the narrative and drawing was so good to be ruined at the end, it's a shame.
    Last edited by Wrestler; 09-23-2020 at 09:36 AM.

  14. #29
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    I really enjoyed both books, but what has turned me off is that now we are getting a "universe" from this.

    I tuned in because it was a singular vision from Murphy with the writing and of course beautiful art.

  15. #30
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    I really enjoyed both books, but what has turned me off is that now we are getting a "universe" from this.

    I tuned in because it was a singular vision from Murphy with the writing and of course beautiful art.
    Huh? A universe? Are other writers and artists going to tell stories here or...?

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