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  1. #136
    Incredible Member 9th.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
    So why didn't DC put more female heroines as the founders in the N52 origin?
    I would've liked to see this as well, Vixen and Black Canary would've been my picks. Why not go all out
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  2. #137
    Astonishing Member El_Gato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Static is also more Young Justice/Teen Titans than Justice League.
    And that's why I consider the Young Justice/Teen Titans franchise superior the Justice League. Much more diverse, better power sets and a younger more relatable feel.

    I'm just sad I haven't gotten Static and Blue Beetle on the same team again :/ Throw in Firestorm too (loved his bromance with Blue Beetle in Injustice 2)
    Done with DC. Can't handle the constant whiplash! Time to go on a hiatus!

  3. #138
    Extraordinary Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9th. View Post
    I would've liked to see this as well, Vixen and Black Canary would've been my picks. Why not go all out
    Actually, considering Black Canary had been considered a founder before (replacing Wonder Woman), and the JSA had been written out with New52's reboot of the DCU, there really would have been no problem including her.

    I think it really boils down to the order in which things happened, in regards to Brightest Day/Flashpoint/New52.

    The League line-up had very much been determined during the post-Brightest Day plans, which also included the JLI team's line-up and the returns of Swamp Thing and Hawkman.
    Then it was decided that instead of just relaunching everything, it was going to be a reboot. But by this time, most of the books had either been written or solicited.
    So Flashpoint's ending was re-written to give an explanation of the reboot and Pandora was drawn into a panel of each of the first issues to give them a sense of continuation.
    Meanwhile, solicited art got changed (JLI) while some dialogue was missed and later edited in their trade collections (Teen Titans, Batwoman).

    So, going by this chain of events, the Cyborg that was initially planned to be in the League was the one everyone knew as a former Titan.
    I don't think Johns was originally planning to replace Martian Manhunter as a founder, but since he wanted to have Cyborg in the team and now it was a reboot, he simply became a founder.
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  4. #139
    Incredible Member Slowpokeking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    You can probably blame Keith Giffen and J. M. DeMatteis back in the post-CoIE 1980s.
    I don't blame anyone, I like it.

  5. #140
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9th. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
    So why didn't DC put more female heroines as the founders in the N52 origin?
    I would've liked to see this as well, Vixen and Black Canary would've been my picks. Why not go all out
    There weren't many female heroines that were supposedly active at the time the JL was founded under the New52 continuity that they were supposedly working off of.
    And if DC monkeyed around too much with who was a "founder" for the New52 Justice League when it was launched back in 2011, who would have accepted this group as the New52 replacement for the old version of the classic seven members? (Hell, DC got enough grief because it wasn't exactly the same line-up that entitled whiny fanboys expected / demanded!)

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
    So why didn't DC put more female heroines as the founders in the N52 origin?
    It would mean doing some WORK in building that female up. Look at the great job that book did with Cyborg. Batman's bus & Internet. How bad would that book have done to a female?

    Now here is the issue what other females with something already out could you add? Who was NOT a Bat character? Supergirl was too young. Hawkgirl was a mess of something. Zantanna, Black Carney, & Power Girl?

    So a JL team with one black guy and 2 white women with 5 white guys? Oh that would really go well.

  7. #142
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Oh, and for anybody who wants to see what a New52 Justice League with more female founding members would have looked like,


  8. #143
    Incredible Member Slowpokeking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    It would mean doing some WORK in building that female up. Look at the great job that book did with Cyborg. Batman's bus & Internet. How bad would that book have done to a female?

    Now here is the issue what other females with something already out could you add? Who was NOT a Bat character? Supergirl was too young. Hawkgirl was a mess of something. Zantanna, Black Carney, & Power Girl?

    So a JL team with one black guy and 2 white women with 5 white guys? Oh that would really go well.
    Usually a 5-7 members team will have 2+ females.

    Mera works great as the Atlantis member and she could control water.
    Zantanna is a magic user, which is unique and is what the team need.
    Black Canary? Sure.
    DCAU had hawkgirl and it worked fine.

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9th. View Post
    I would've liked to see this as well, Vixen and Black Canary would've been my picks. Why not go all out.
    That would have been my preference, over Cyborg (or, as much as I like him, Martian Manhunter). Black Canary as the 'seventh' would have some precedent, and if the powers-that-be felt that the team needed some person of color representation, John Stewart could have replaced Hal Jordan as the team's Green Lantern (although, in that case, Hawkwoman might have for some cool animated JL synergy).

    I'd definitely like to see more of Martian Manhunter, but perhaps on a space/cosmic team with Captain Comet, Adam Strange, a Green Lantern, etc.

  10. #145
    Extraordinary Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    From 'Mark's Remarks' in the May 1987 Avengers titles:

    "I don't have a lot of space this month due to the necessity of printing the annual statement of ownership, so let me see if I can think of a short topic (for once!) Hmmm, let's see...Got it. This month's topic: What factors make a good super hero team? Off the top of my head, I'd say having a balance of powers and personalities is a big plus. You wouldn't want everyone to have the same power on the team or they'd trip over each other doing the same trick all the time. If they all had similiar personalities, that would make for pretty monotonous dialogue. Hmmm, besides that, color-coordinated costumes might be a plus. A good male-female mix is also desirable. Gee, what else? Beyond these basics, I think it might get down to specific requirements of a team's concept. For instance, the Avengers are supposed to be Earth's mightiest heroes, so it certainly wouldn't fit the oncept if we brought in someone who wasn't from Earth, wasn't mighty, or wasn't a hero. I've got to go now to make room for your letters. Tell you what, you tell me what factors you think make for a good super hero team, and I'll print your ideas in a future M's Rems. Please write Mark's Remarks at the top of your letter to make for easier sorting of mail. Fair enough?

    --Mark Gruenwald"
    Currently reading: Legion of Super-Heroes ('80s), New Teen Titans ('80s)

  11. #146
    Extraordinary Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Oh, and for anybody who wants to see what a New52 Justice League with more female founding members would have looked like,


    Or the original pre-reboot version:

    Currently reading: Legion of Super-Heroes ('80s), New Teen Titans ('80s)

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
    Mera works great as the Atlantis member and she could control water.
    She works as a league member, but having her replace Aquaman as Founder seems odd.

    And I think the problem with Zatanna and and Canary was that they wanted them in Justice League Dark and Birds of prey respectively.

  13. #148
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    I was playing devilís advocate before when I suggested more rational representation, since I believe in Gardner Fox the one true creator of the JLA.

    However, there are creative ways to work with the origin, as both Steve Englehart and Darwyn Cooke had done, so you can show more characters and more of the DC world.

    First you would have to know what the continuity is supposed to be and, from what I read here, that wasnít the case when they did the New 52 (contrary to what was being said by DC at the time).

    You could have lots of heroes reacting to the Appellaxian invasion and give more background. Ultimately it would be the five plus two that saved the day, but many fellow travellers were met along the way. And this is all just prologue to the formation of the Justice League in reality. There could be many other problems and adventures (like in JLA: YEAR ONE).

    For example, maybe the JLA had to keep Batman and Martian Manhunter off the books to protect them from government investigation. Thereís lots of wiggle room for more inclusion and secret members.
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  14. #149
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    I honestly wish we can put this topic to rest already. I feel like you know exactly why J'onn wasn't on the League. But guess what? He's back on the Justice League! Along with John Stewart AND Cyborg. I don't see what you solve by having him going back to the Titans. Sure, restore the history but i think he can stay on the League. Writers just don't do anything with him (Johns, Hitch) or repeat the same narratives over and over. (Semper, Wolfman) i even think him leading a Justice League team is the right way to go.
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