The Many Loves of Batman .

[Darkspellmaster]

Your idea for Julie Madison sounds interesting. She could maybe take over for Harvey Dent, which then gives Two-Face a new adversary to contend with.

Exactly! I always figured she could act as someone who helps in the law side and has an interesting relationship with the extended family. We have yet to see how lawyers, save BTAS, in the DA's office deal with Batman. As you said Harvey would be really interesting as would Hush since Tommy would have known her too, so there's that
And her own father's death due to the evil in Gotham and Bruce failing her.

[Osiris-Rex]

Vicki doesn't need to work with Bruce all she needs is to be an independent woman who understands Batman's mission and is law abiding. Most of us don't work with our better halves and the fact that Clark and Lois already have that as part of their story means Batman doesn't need it.

Talia is international so where she leave doesn't matter. People move.

Selina and Talia are two desperate criminals who chase after Batman trying to seduce him [strange how the criminals chase him while he keeps trying to have a relationship with decent women]

Selina and Talia are bad choices while Bruce is still active and both ladies need to change to ever be with Bruce which isn't a very empowering thing. They have to lose agency to get their man.

Vicki and the rest like Silver don't have to change. They are already strong law abiding ladies who don't need Bruce. I also like the fact that with Vicki and Sliver Bruce does the chasing.

I'm just saying this is the reason DC Comics did this. Catwoman makes for more interesting stories than Vicki Vale. Vicki Vale isn't even much of a fighter. Certainly not on the level Catwoman or Talia are
And there would be no good reason to make Vicki Vale a fighter comparable to those two.

[Starrius]

I'm just saying this is the reason DC Comics did this. Catwoman makes for more interesting stories than Vicki Vale. Vicki Vale isn't even much of a fighter. Certainly not on the level Catwoman or Talia are
And there would be no good reason to make Vicki Vale a fighter comparable to those two.

also Selina has reformed and became a crimefighter in the past
she can still be a strong character without being a thief and criminal
out of all the Batman rogues, she's the one that is most likely would reform and be a hero

[Osiris-Rex]

also Selina has reformed and became a crimefighter in the past
she can still be a strong character without being a thief and criminal
out of all the Batman rogues, she's the one that is most likely would reform and be a hero

That is another aspect of Catwoman's appeal. She can easily flip from being a villain to a hero. Vicki Vale is sort of stuck. While not necessarily a hero, it is hard to imagine Vicki Vale flipping
and becoming an actual villain that could threaten anyone. What would she do? Interview someone to death?

[jetengine]

That is another aspect of Catwoman's appeal. She can easily flip from being a villain to a hero. Vicki Vale is sort of stuck. While not necessarily a hero, it is hard to imagine Vicki Vale flipping
and becoming an actual villain that could threaten anyone. What would she do? Interview someone to death?

Yeah its not like the news media can frame someone into a monster, hated and despised by millions, egging unhinged individuals to attack.....

[Osiris-Rex]

Yeah its not like the news media can frame someone into a monster, hated and despised by millions, egging unhinged individuals to attack.....

Can't recall any news reporter doing this in real life. Seems a little far fetched, even for comic books. Even weirder that Vicki Vale would flip. I could see someone with a long established agenda,
like maybe some radio personality, such as Leslie Willis. But it would be a complete retrocon of Vicki Vale.

[Valentis]

also Selina has reformed and became a crimefighter in the past
she can still be a strong character without being a thief and criminal
out of all the Batman rogues, she's the one that is most likely would reform and be a hero

Catwoman has never been in the Batman's rogues to me. She is in the grey area than in the Rogue, Same could be said for Talia.

[CPSparkles]

also Selina has reformed and became a crimefighter in the past
she can still be a strong character without being a thief and criminal
out of all the Batman rogues, she's the one that is most likely would reform and be a hero

That's a plus? I always viewed that as a negative. Catwoman flip flopping isn't a good thing especially these days when you have characters like Harley and Ivy doing it doing it better. Catwoman being unable to give up her petty stealing just cos she really likes shiny thing's isn't a good thing. She isn't breaking the law for any big or noble ideas like Talia or ivy. She simply wants other peoples stuff to be her stuff without working for it.

Ivy becoming a hero while fighting her noble cause is a lot more impressive than Selina one day deciding that she's stolen enough or that she can let her hubby pay for it.

Also personally I find heroic Catwoman to be dull as dish water. As catwoman she has a niche as a hero she's a nothing character. A waste of ink.

I feel like batcat only works when they are at the end of their lives. When Bruce can't Bat and selina can't steal. That's when they get their happy ever after

[Osiris-Rex]

That's a plus? I always viewed that as a negative. Catwoman flip flopping isn't a good thing especially these days when you have characters like Harley and Ivy doing it doing it better. Catwoman being unable to give up her petty stealing just cos she really likes shiny thing's isn't a good thing. She isn't breaking the law for any big or noble ideas like Talia or ivy. She simply wants other peoples stuff to be her stuff without working for it.

Ivy becoming a hero while fighting her noble cause is a lot more impressive than Selina one day deciding that she's stolen enough or that she can let her hubby pay for it.

Also personally I find heroic Catwoman to be dull as dish water. As catwoman she has a niche as a hero she's a nothing character. A waste of ink.

I feel like batcat only works when they are at the end of their lives. When Bruce can't Bat and selina can't steal. That's when they get their happy ever after

Harley. Talia, and Ivy and the rest are just ripping off Catwoman's shtick. Catwoman was doing that back in the 1950s. Flipping between being a villain and a hero. Catwoman was doing what Harley is doing before the people
that created Harley were even born. I prefer the original to some over hyped knock off. They are basically stealing Catwoman's ink.

[CPSparkles]

Harley. Talia, and Ivy and the rest are just ripping off Catwoman's shtick. Catwoman was doing that back in the 1950s. Flipping between being a villain and a hero. Catwoman was doing what Harley is doing before the people
that created Harley were even born. I prefer the original to some over hyped knock off. They are basically stealing Catwoman's ink.

I know she was the 1st but that doesn't make her switch more interesting, compelling, empowering, positive or inspirational. Selina's really isn't any of that except for positive. Harley's switch is all of those and because Harley and Ivy haven't done it ad nauseam it's still somewhat fresh.

Anyway my point is that Viciki doesn't need to switch to be an interesting match for Batman who doesn't comprise his principals. Selina being able to switch isn't a really a plus compared to character's like Vicki. Lois is a law abiding citizen and she's just fine that way.

Sure a grey character offers the chance for more stories. Same with an on off love interest. but for a love interest that's viable without Bruce walking back his morals, giving up or character's changing at their core then being able to switch isn't really a plus

[jetengine]

Can't recall any news reporter doing this in real life. Seems a little far fetched, even for comic books. Even weirder that Vicki Vale would flip. I could see someone with a long established agenda,
like maybe some radio personality, such as Leslie Willis. But it would be a complete retrocon of Vicki Vale.

....have you not been watching the news at all ? Multiple right wing terrorist/shooter attacks have been noted to be motivated and fueled by the rhetoric of Fox News.

Hell its literally happened in comics before with Glorious Godfrey pushing the public against Superhumans

[bat39]

I've always found it fascinating that arguable Batman's two biggest love interests, Selina and Talia, are both criminals (or ex-criminals as the case may be). I suppose it really says something about him...

[Osiris-Rex]

....have you not been watching the news at all ? Multiple right wing terrorist/shooter attacks have been noted to be motivated and fueled by the rhetoric of Fox News.

Hell its literally happened in comics before with Glorious Godfrey pushing the public against Superhumans

But Fox News has always been the way it is and CNN and MSNBC have always been the way they are. It's not like they all of a sudden flipped from left to right or right to left.
Vicki Vale flipping from being at most morally ambiguous to an outright villain or criminal would be out of character. And even though Bruce loves the bad girls like Selina and Talia,
I doubt Vicki Vale turning criminal would suddenly cause Bruce to fall in love with her. At most he would wonder what went wrong with that girl and try to get her help.

[jetengine]

But Fox News has always been the way it is and CNN and MSNBC have always been the way they are. It's not like they all of a sudden flipped from left to right or right to left.
Vicki Vale flipping from being at most morally ambiguous to an outright villain or criminal would be out of character. And even though Bruce loves the bad girls like Selina and Talia,
I doubt Vicki Vale turning criminal would suddenly cause Bruce to fall in love with her. At most he would wonder what went wrong with that girl and try to get her help.

My point was less "Vicki Vale could do it" and more that your statement of "She cant do anything and these things havent happened in comics or irl" is wrong. But yes if motivated enough Vicki could ruin Bruce

[Valentis]

I've always found it fascinating that arguable Batman's two biggest love interests, Selina and Talia, are both criminals (or ex-criminals as the case may be). I suppose it really says something about him...

It really does. Batman has the potential to be a criminal himself. He had to draw some lines that he dares not cross. His attraction to Catwoman and Talia must mirror some of his own suppressed human traits.