Justice Leage of America

[Raijin]

Me. Also people who aren't nostalgic for the satellite era, people who don't care about the big name characters, any fans of the big name characters who wouldn't like attention being taken from them and given to the 70's cast and anyone who has a problem with the idea of a team of 16 characters where there are only 4 women and every 'human' is straight and white.

I love some members of this line-up, but it doesn't work as a whole for me at all.

Agreed. Bringing back the satellite era or as I like to call it The Straight n Caucasian League would seem like regression. Add a little Kimiyo, pour some Fire into it, etc.

[caj]

I recall being very disappointed when Jefferson said no. Whatever DC's reasoning at the time, IMO, it stunk.

It's been awhile since I read this, but I think Jefferson's refusal was the catalyst for Green Arrow resigning a few issues later. Black Lightning was too focused on helping the people who were struggling with everyday crime in his neighborhood and city. He had no interest in battling space aliens or major threats to the world. It made Ollie begin to examine what it really meant to be a super hero and who he should be protecting.

[The Darknight Detective]

It's been awhile since I read this, but I think Jefferson's refusal was the catalyst for Green Arrow resigning a few issues later. Black Lightning was too focused on helping the people who were struggling with everyday crime in his neighborhood and city. He had no interest in battling space aliens or major threats to the world. It made Ollie begin to examine what it really meant to be a super hero and who he should be protecting.

Right, but that didn't mean BL couldn't have been, at least, a reserve JL member. Sometimes those inner-city people need help from outside threats, too.

[Güicho]

Right, but that didn't mean BL couldn't have been,

In the the 1978 "World’s Greatest Superheroes” comic strip, he had already joined, as their JL line up already included Black Lightning as a regular.
So to me he was always a member, and how I always pictured the JL, ever expanding.




I think it was Meltzer's JL who first made him an official member (some edits above added back Aquaman and J'onzz).

I really think the JL is best as an ever expanding roster, and creators choosing who they want to focus on for their run or arc.
You don't have to endlessly reboot them or do constant revisionist garbage, you can acknowledge the original founders (but you don't have to make it about them unless that's the current creators focus) and you can include all the subsequent members and newer members too, and focus on them if the creators want.
And they can add new members of their own creation, which is how it should be.
It really is the perfect set up. The JL is ever expanding!
Seems like instead everyone here really just wants to dump on everyone ellse's "version" and make the JL some closed bubble of hating anything that came before, or hating everything that came after you.
When the set up is there for all.
I don't get any of you

[The Darknight Detective]

In the the 1978 "World’s Greatest Superheroes” comic strip, he had joined their JL line up included Black Lightning.
Which is how I always pictured the JL, and ever expanding.

Yes! I forgot about that strip, which I loved. They did Jefferson right when he was included, IMO.

[caj]

Right, but that didn't mean BL couldn't have been, at least, a reserve JL member. Sometimes those inner-city people need help from outside threats, too.

Agree. I mean, there wasn't that many black heroes back then. But writer Gerry Conway had a choice and he chose youth (Firestorm) over diversity. Plus, Conway created Firestorm so it was a no-brainer that he would add him to the roster.

[Lee Stone]

Agree. I mean, there wasn't that many black heroes back then. But writer Gerry Conway had a choice and he chose youth (Firestorm) over diversity. Plus, Conway created Firestorm so it was a no-brainer that he would add him to the roster.

He also created Vixen and added her at the first chance he had.

[Jim Kelly]

With the exception of Aquaman being a founding/A list member and Green Arrow being ARGUABLY an A lister, Black Canary, Mera, Black Lightening, and Vixen are all STRONG B listers in their own right who fit right in with the A listers/Original members . . .

Yes but if you look at things from my dinosaur point of view, this wasn’t how it always was. It takes a very long time, but if you let them hang in there, these guys could show their worth eventually.

In 1941’s MORE FUN COMICS No. 73 (November), editor Mort Weisinger introduced two characters he had co-created: Green Arrow and Aquaman. Of the two, the Emerald Archer was more in the spotlight. He and his partner, Speedy, appeared on some of the covers (about twenty MORE FUN covers) and they won membership in the short-lived Seven Soldiers of Victory.

You could argue Oliver was a C list hero, maybe B list. But the Sea King was surely on the D list.

Both second banana heroes survived the great super-hero cull of the early 1950s by existing in anthologies with bigger stars. Both were batting clean-up for Superboy in ADVENTURE COMICS. While Oliver and Roy had second part-time jobs in WORLD’S FINEST COMICS, head-lined by Superman and Batman.

Aquaman caught a lucky break when he was drafted up from the minors to play in the big League. However, surely the only reason Aquaman was included in the JLA was because there was a shortage of super-heroes. THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD No. 28 was probably his first ever cover appearance—and it went on sale at the very very end of 1959!

Yet this turn of fate benefitted Aquaman greatly. He was a twenty year overnight success in the 1960s when he scored his own title, after some SHOWCASE try-outs. And he even got his own Saturday morning cartoon show.

The 1970s and 1980s weren’t as kind. He went in ond out of anthologies and his own brief title runs. While Justice League writers sometimes seemed to forget he was a member. But his saving grace was being a charter member of the SUPER FRIENDS.

Green Arrow didn’t fare any better. He was an after thought for League membership in 1961, but he had already lost his ADVENTURE gig by then. WORLD’S FINEST was next to make him redundant. And he would have had to join Congo Bill in limbo, if it wasn’t for that sweet JLA seat at the table keeping him on the D list.

In the 1970s and 1980s, Ollie mainly stayed popular by attaching himself to Green Lantern and the occasional back-up jobs. But he wasn’t able to sustain his own ongoing until 1988. And then in the 1990s they killed him.

[caj]

While Justice League writers sometimes seemed to forget he was a member. But his saving grace was being a charter member of the SUPER FRIENDS.

Gerry Conway especially was guilty of ignoring Aquaman. He would make cameo appearances in the book - most times not even speaking a word - but would rarely be used in the story or the action.

He was even left off this cover that had every other member of the league in it:



It was somewhat ironic that when Conway chose to re-vamp the league in Detroit that he put Aquaman in charge of it after years of acting as if he did not even exist.

[Uncanny Mutie]

Yes but if you look at things from my dinosaur point of view, this wasn’t how it always was. It takes a very long time, but if you let them hang in there, these guys could show their worth eventually.

In 1941’s MORE FUN COMICS No. 73 (November), editor Mort Weisinger introduced two characters he had co-created: Green Arrow and Aquaman. Of the two, the Emerald Archer was more in the spotlight. He and his partner, Speedy, appeared on some of the covers (about twenty MORE FUN covers) and they won membership in the short-lived Seven Soldiers of Victory.

You could argue Oliver was a C list hero, maybe B list. But the Sea King was surely on the D list.

Both second banana heroes survived the great super-hero cull of the early 1950s by existing in anthologies with bigger stars. Both were batting clean-up for Superboy in ADVENTURE COMICS. While Oliver and Roy had second part-time jobs in WORLD’S FINEST COMICS, head-lined by Superman and Batman.

Aquaman caught a lucky break when he was drafted up from the minors to play in the big League. However, surely the only reason Aquaman was included in the JLA was because there was a shortage of super-heroes. THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD No. 28 was probably his first ever cover appearance—and it went on sale at the very very end of 1959!

Yet this turn of fate benefitted Aquaman greatly. He was a twenty year overnight success in the 1960s when he scored his own title, after some SHOWCASE try-outs. And he even got his own Saturday morning cartoon show.

The 1970s and 1980s weren’t as kind. He went in ond out of anthologies and his own brief title runs. While Justice League writers sometimes seemed to forget he was a member. But his saving grace was being a charter member of the SUPER FRIENDS.

Green Arrow didn’t fare any better. He was an after thought for League membership in 1961, but he had already lost his ADVENTURE gig by then. WORLD’S FINEST was next to make him redundant. And he would have had to join Congo Bill in limbo, if it wasn’t for that sweet JLA seat at the table keeping him on the D list.

In the 1970s and 1980s, Ollie mainly stayed popular by attaching himself to Green Lantern and the occasional back-up jobs. But he wasn’t able to sustain his own ongoing until 1988. And then in the 1990s they killed him.

I know the history of Green Arrow and Aquaman and their statuses throughout the years, but I'm talking about where they stand tier wise TODAY.

[Jim Kelly]

I was just trying to give more context for what I said earlier on this thread.

At one time, I would never have guessed that Green Arrow & Black Canary, Aquaman & Mera, or Black Lightning & Vixen would return as popular characters. I counted them as near dead, but for appearances with the JLA. Membership has its privileges. For sure if these guys couldn’t have some presence in the DC books, through the League, they would have gone the way of ALL-FLASH.

What might be Justice League also-rans now, have the chance of becoming fan favourites in the future.

I was addressing the very long term for the entire life of these characters. My premise being that the old characters in the League that people complain about could end up fan favourites at some distant point in time. So keeping those characters out of limbo, by giving them a membership card, allows the possibility that a future artist/writer will make good use of them.

O’Neil, Adams et al completely turned things around for Green Arrow, who was nearly toast. And even then it took decades for him to be a bankable star.

I realize I can be very pedantic sometimes. And most posters I respond to will know this stuff already. But I’m also aware that lots of other people are reading these threads. So it never hurts to go over some of the long publishing history of the DC empire. Even if that bores a lot of folks, I still think it’s worth it because that’s how I pick up a lot of knowledge on this message board.

[caj]

I realize I can be very pedantic sometimes. And most posters I respond to will know this stuff already. But I’m also aware that lots of other people are reading these threads. So it never hurts to go over some of the long publishing history of the DC empire. Even if that bores a lot of folks, I still think it’s worth it because that’s how I pick up a lot of knowledge on this message board.

Keep doing what you're doing. I love your posts.

[Uncanny Mutie]

Keep doing what you're doing. I love your posts.

Most definitely. I initially misunderstood your response, but it was certainly a great and thorough post. Please keep the informative posts coming, Jim! Thanks!

[Mar-Vell]

.
I realize I can be very pedantic sometimes. And most posters I respond to will know this stuff already. But I’m also aware that lots of other people are reading these threads. So it never hurts to go over some of the long publishing history of the DC empire. Even if that bores a lot of folks, I still think it’s worth it because that’s how I pick up a lot of knowledge on this message board.

And you would be correct. As a relative newcomer to DC (new 52), I always appreciate informative posts like the one you just presented.

So yes, please keep it up.

I picked up a very sparse amount of DC comics during my Marvel Zombie years, but the Satellite era JLA comprised most of them, and I do remember how fun they were. Much different tone than my Marvels. I sincerely wish now that I had been more of a DC guy. Looks like I missed out on a lot of great comic history.

[BatmanJones]

Keep doing what you're doing. I love your posts.

This goes triple for me. I felt I was beyond further education of DC lore but this board and great posters like @Jim Kelly have shown me how much I still have to learn. Love his posts, Lee Stone's posts, and Major Hoy's posts for this reason. And I appreciate Rikdad's posts and (moreover) his blog which is so incredibly enlightening.

This is a special community but it's made ever so much more so by having such great DC historians in it. Every post is appreciated, Jim Kelly. Keep them coming, please.