Silver Surfer Vs. Hal Jordan Green Lantern

[The Arbiter]

Well that's just comics in general. Sometimes they get good feats sometimes the writer doesn't think he's so powerful. If we start including everything for instance Superman powers through magic based transmutation that does up every other member of the league.

But to put it another way, on an average GLs don't pack the power to transmute a class 100 to a cookie and frankly very few non high tier characters possess that kind of power as a consistent thing.

In the kryptonite instance, it was a Legion villain whose super power was specifically "transmutation ". Legion includes folks who transmute inerton. For comparison Kyle Rayner needed J'onn to download and provide instructions for the exact formula for Kryptonite from Superman's brain to create some

Totally agree, comics are funny like that.

Just as a minor nitpick, that magical transmutation he powered through (assuming its the same instance I believe it to be) was less transmutation and more of a de-evolution or reversing time sort of dealio. Diana de-aged back into clay for example, and Supes was becoming a primal Krypto-Caveman.

Not that him powering through it wasn't impressive of course.

[Cronus]

There really is no need to be rude.

Hal to has been shown to move at light speed. But neither Surfer nor Hal from what I can recall have used there "Super Speed " in battle. You saying one is faster than the other doesn't really prove anything. Which is why I requested scan proof.

People have biases all the time. You thinking surfer is faster doesn't mean that he is. Want evidence.

Just to add to what has been mentioned....there's no need on these forums to for any of us to speculate as to whether or not the Surfer will utilize his well cataloged reaction speed. On these forums, each character is going balls out, within the limits of their character and with PIS moments that comics are rife with....strictly off.

The searching the planet feats is pretty much a WTF? feat of the highest order. There are numerous others, but Surfer taking a stab at the Infinity Gauntlet, moving as fast as he was, is a demonstration of massively faster than light reaction speed.

More to @CaptainMorgan's comments from earlier, a speed equalised fight is intriguing. What would you say Hal's best energy/matter manipulation feats are.

[DragonsChi]

Just to add to what has been mentioned....there's no need on these forums to for any of us to speculate as to whether or not the Surfer will utilize his well cataloged reaction speed. On these forums, each character is going balls out, within the limits of their character and with PIS moments that comics are rife with....strictly off.

The searching the planet feats is pretty much a WTF? feat of the highest order. There are numerous others, but Surfer taking a stab at the Infinity Gauntlet, moving as fast as he was, is a demonstration of massively faster than light reaction speed.

More to @CaptainMorgan's comments from earlier, a speed equalised fight is intriguing. What would you say Hal's best energy/matter manipulation feats are.

That rule doesn’t really seem fair though. Just because some can move fast doesn’t mean they can or even know how to operate at that level. Seems like more though should go into it. Espeically since both characters are crazy fast.

The new Quicksilver book says it a little better then I can:

Also several “battles” on these fourms must end really quickly with that line of reasoning.

[The Arbiter]

Yes, lots of battles do in fact end quickly here.

[The Arbiter]

So, again the thing is, Surfer can correctly identify and monologue and then flare his powers in the span of a nanosecond. Its not a huge stretch at that point to then say he could move his arm back and forth in a strike at similar speeds. Heck, even 1/3rd as fast would still be much too fast.

Or how he can observe a teleporting foe /in mid teleport/ and identify where they will reappear.

Or scanning the entire planet on his board in 10 seconds or so. Considering he called it a "thorough" search, we can assume he at the very least was doing things like turning his head, or peeking around corners at ridiculous speeds. The logic follows that he then in fact can move his arm back and forth in a punch at similar speeds.

You are accurate in that speed related to traveling huge distances in a straight line does not always speak to fast combat reactions. But Surfer has enough feats of more complicated reactions and movements to suggest he's fine with say basic motions and functions at those speeds. Like blasting or striking.

[Captain Morgan]

I'll note Dork and I have some disagreements on how post crisis Clark vs a high end Lantern would go, but I don't really want to drift that far off track.


Cronus: Actually, I am blanking on energy/matter manipulation feats from the Nu/Rebirth period. I know Sinestro pulled off some decent transmutation to fix an area that had been damaged in an alien attack in the space of a panel, so I'd imagine Hal can probably fend off being transmuted. But the energy stuff might cement a win for Surfer even without speed, even if Hal can keep up in raw power.

Post crisis Hal had a pretty decent assortment of feats in those categories though. Nothing strictly better than Surfer I could name, but enough to defend against the tactics at least. But Surfer can just straight over power post crisis Hal easily enough.

On the Zod fight: it really didn't come across as Zod throwing the fight, nor did he really have a reason to. He just needed time for the ring scan to complete, which he could have done still by winning the fight. Also, dude was bleeding and bruised, and doesn't seem the type to purposely lose a fight in front of his wife and son. Saying that the loss was meaningless afterwards mostly comes off as him saving face. All that being said, it was a terrible issue in a terrible run and I don't intend to reread it to confirm any of this because bleh.

[Sharpandpointies]

I find Quicksilver's comments amusing, when the Surfer has done all kinds of precise stuff at ludicrous speed and Rambeau has not only done the same (searching through a massive asteroid complex for bombs in 'an imperceptibly small fraction of a second'), but blitzed Quicksilver himself.

[DragonsChi]

So, again the thing is, Surfer can correctly identify and monologue and then flare his powers in the span of a nanosecond. Its not a huge stretch at that point to then say he could move his arm back and forth in a strike at similar speeds. Heck, even 1/3rd as fast would still be much too fast.

Or how he can observe a teleporting foe /in mid teleport/ and identify where they will reappear.

Or scanning the entire planet on his board in 10 seconds or so. Considering he called it a "thorough" search, we can assume he at the very least was doing things like turning his head, or peeking around corners at ridiculous speeds. The logic follows that he then in fact can move his arm back and forth in a punch at similar speeds.

You are accurate in that speed related to traveling huge distances in a straight line does not always speak to fast combat reactions. But Surfer has enough feats of more complicated reactions and movements to suggest he's fine with say basic motions and functions at those speeds. Like blasting or striking.

True, all good points!

Guess I was just hoping it be less cut and dry. Wonder how the Surfer measures up to Superman.

[Captain Morgan]

That rule doesn’t really seem fair though. Just because some can move fast doesn’t mean they can or even know how to operate at that level. Seems like more though should go into it. Espeically since both characters are crazy fast.

The new Quicksilver book says it a little better then I can:

Also several “battles” on these fourms must end really quickly with that line of reasoning.

That's actually a pretty silly scene, considering that Quicksilver has in fact been blitzed by Spectrum when she was using a different name.

https://www.google.com/search?client...3oUo6O8uyrqTM:

Peitro does have his speed emphasized more in comics, but that mostly seems to be because it is the only relevant ability he has. That doesn't make him faster of mind or body than people who also happen to have other powers to boot.

[Captain Morgan]

True, all good points!

Guess I was just hoping it be less cut and dry. Wonder how the Surfer measures up to Superman.

Depends on the Superman. Most get blitzed by Surfer and/or lack counters to his his zaniest powers. A couple of really high end versions like Pre-crisis can win.

[The Dork Knight]

That rule doesn’t really seem fair though. Just because some can move fast doesn’t mean they can or even know how to operate at that level. Seems like more though should go into it. Espeically since both characters are crazy fast.

The new Quicksilver book says it a little better then I can:
Also several “battles” on these fourms must end really quickly with that line of reasoning.

So as expected the argument boils down to "Surfer doesn't use his speed in combat!" backed with some weird analogy from a dude who was made to look like a statue by the child of another of those who is not considered to have "superspeed fight feats" in Gladiator

Surfer has feats of fighting at speed which I'll get to but just to clarify, your argument boils down to "plot induced stupidity is a thing"?

[The Arbiter]

True, all good points!

Guess I was just hoping it be less cut and dry. Wonder how the Surfer measures up to Superman.

I get the frustration. Speed kills. In the future if you are hoping to create a scenario that would be more in line with how a comic would actually go, you can always specify "speed equalized" in the OP. ^_^

[DragonsChi]

So as expected the argument boils down to "Surfer doesn't use his speed in combat!" backed with some weird analogy from a dude who was made to look like a statue by the child of another of those who is not considered to have "superspeed fight feats" in Gladiator

Surfer has feats of fighting at speed which I'll get to but just to clarify, your argument boils down to "plot induced stupidity is a thing"?

Just throwing it out there but your incredibly rude.

To the actual post...again both characters are insanely fast. Green Lanterns have been known to reach other galxies in minutes so the “Ahh he’s fast so he wins, end of story” arguement doesnt really jell without more facts and more evidence. A cheetah is faster then a bear but a cheetha is not winning any fights to the bear without help.

So again your “he’s faster” should not be the end all in this case.

However, The Arbiter made a very good case, explained his points and provided soild evidence, that has convicend me. Maybe you should take note of his method of handling things if you would like some to listen to you and even agree with you.

[DragonsChi]

I get the frustration. Speed kills. In the future if you are hoping to create a scenario that would be more in line with how a comic would actually go, you can always specify "speed equalized" in the OP. ^_^

Sweet! Thank you!

[The Arbiter]

So as expected the argument boils down to "Surfer doesn't use his speed in combat!" backed with some weird analogy from a dude who was made to look like a statue by the child of another of those who is not considered to have "superspeed fight feats" in Gladiator

Surfer has feats of fighting at speed which I'll get to but just to clarify, your argument boils down to "plot induced stupidity is a thing"?

Eh, I figure the guy isn't ill intentioned. I get the impression DragonsChi is often more involved in other parts of CBR than Rumbles and so might not be used to our standards of debate is all.