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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPSparkles View Post
    Again Thank you. I really want Conner and Jon to have what Dick and Damian have. Best bros.
    There's no evidence to even support that though. Fans never show up for the type of books they claim they want. When it fails, they'll be the first ones to blame the publishers. A company can only do but so much. Fans need to stop with this BS gimme gimme attitude.
    Imagine being proud to have negative traits. I canít relate.

    DC: Justice League, The Flash, Justice League Dark, Superman, Action Comics, Green Arrow, Justice League Odyssey, The Terrifics, Teen Titans, Titans, Brimstone, Female Furies, Damage, Heroes In Crisis

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  2. #32
    Astonishing Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Black View Post
    There's no evidence to even support that though. Fans never show up for the type of books they claim they want. When it fails, they'll be the first ones to blame the publishers. A company can only do but so much. Fans need to stop with this BS gimme gimme attitude.
    There is no evidence to support otherwise either.
    In supersons of Tomorrow Conner was hell bent on protecting Jon.
    There's no reason why the Superverse can't have Jon [son] and Conner [clone] or why they can't have a good relationship.

    They don't necessarily need a title together but I feel that Conner and Jon can co-exist
    Last edited by CPSparkles; 05-23-2018 at 03:51 AM.

  3. #33
    Mighty Member Rise's Avatar
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    Dick and Damian worked because they are the opposite of each others and their relationship being developed under the umbrella of Batman and Robin brand definitely helped giving them exposure.

    The same can't necessary be said about Jon and Conner. I do think they can co-exist, but that doesn't mean their hypothetical relationship can be successful and DC are missing out the chance.
    Last edited by Rise; 05-23-2018 at 04:15 AM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rise View Post
    Dick and Damian worked because they are the opposite of each others and their relationship being developed under the umbrella of Batman and Robin brand definitely helped giving them exposure.

    The same can't necessary be said about Jon and Conner. I do think they can co-exist, but that doesn't mean their hypothetical relationship can be successful and DC are missing out the chance.
    It's as successful as DC makes it.

  5. #35
    Mighty Member Rise's Avatar
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    If things are as simple as that, then every brand of their would have been successful because I'm pretty sure it's what any company wish for.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rise View Post
    If things are as simple as that, then every brand of their would have been successful because I'm pretty sure it's what any company wish for.
    Well there's also things like promotion, tapping into the right markets, writers, editors, planning, etc. All of which DC has had an issue with in the past.

  7. #37
    Mighty Member Rise's Avatar
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    You mean like how BvS was promoted everywhere and they still didn't get the resultes they wished for?

    And what the "right markets" you referring to? I do believe that DC has a problem in promoting their work, but it isn't as simple as if DC wanted x to be successful, it would have been successful.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rise View Post
    You mean like how BvS was promoted everywhere and they still didn't get the resultes they wished for?

    And what the "right markets" you referring to? I do believe that DC has a problem in promoting their work, but it isn't as simple as if DC wanted x to be successful, it would have been successful.
    I believe I mentioned writers. Also, we're talking about the comics not the movies and DC isn't WB.

    I meant looking at beyond the direct markets. Moon Girl for instance gets promoted in libraries and does well on digital.

  9. #39
    Mighty Member Rise's Avatar
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    And you forget to mention superhero girls which is far more successful than Moon Girl. They already trying to create several imprints to suit all ages.

    And if you want example from comics, look at TT. DC has been pushing and promoting the brand for years and it still didn't get the results they hoped for which is why it keep relaunching.

  10. #40
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    What happened to them is the same thing that happens to all the teen heroes these days. A new batch of young kids come in the older one get sent off to limbo. I think the tipping point for the YJ generation was the creation of Damian Wayne. Once he was brought in that pretty much displaced Tim Drake as Robin which sort of set off the dominos when it came to Cassie, Conner, Bart, and the rest. Tim had no real place in the DCU anymore and that trickled down to the rest of them.

    Once Damian was around DC decided they needed to create more characters closer to his age for him to have his own peers so we started getting things like the de-aged Raven and Beast Boy and then Kid Flash II and finally Red Arrow (Emiko) and Superboy (Jon). It all goes back to the creation of Damian.

    This is the sad trend with teen heroes the last 20 years though. A team is around for a while and builds up a fanbase and then a new writer comes in and wants to create a whole new team. I mean DC was pretty good about this until Damian came along compared to Marvel. Marvel teen heroes have a very short shelf life compared to groups like the TT and YJ. Marvel teen heroes have a shelf life of about 5 years max before they get sent off to limbo for the next round of teens that no one will care about.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rise View Post
    And you forget to mention superhero girls which is far more successful than Moon Girl. They already trying to create several imprints to suit all ages.

    And if you want example from comics, look at TT. DC has been pushing and promoting the brand for years and it still didn't get the results they hoped for which is why it keep relaunching.
    Again, I mentioned the issues of writers and editors as problems. There isn't just one issue with the comics side but a whole bunch of them.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    What happened to them is the same thing that happens to all the teen heroes these days. A new batch of young kids come in the older one get sent off to limbo. I think the tipping point for the YJ generation was the creation of Damian Wayne. Once he was brought in that pretty much displaced Tim Drake as Robin which sort of set off the dominos when it came to Cassie, Conner, Bart, and the rest. Tim had no real place in the DCU anymore and that trickled down to the rest of them.

    Once Damian was around DC decided they needed to create more characters closer to his age for him to have his own peers so we started getting things like the de-aged Raven and Beast Boy and then Kid Flash II and finally Red Arrow (Emiko) and Superboy (Jon). It all goes back to the creation of Damian.

    This is the sad trend with teen heroes the last 20 years though. A team is around for a while and builds up a fanbase and then a new writer comes in and wants to create a whole new team. I mean DC was pretty good about this until Damian came along compared to Marvel. Marvel teen heroes have a very short shelf life compared to groups like the TT and YJ. Marvel teen heroes have a shelf life of about 5 years max before they get sent off to limbo for the next round of teens that no one will care about.
    The current bunch of teen heroes Marvel is pushing seems to have more staying power than their predecessors. Which is surprising considering all the backlash I see surrounding those characters.

  13. #43
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    What happened to them is the same thing that happens to all the teen heroes these days. A new batch of young kids come in the older one get sent off to limbo. I think the tipping point for the YJ generation was the creation of Damian Wayne. Once he was brought in that pretty much displaced Tim Drake as Robin which sort of set off the dominos when it came to Cassie, Conner, Bart, and the rest. Tim had no real place in the DCU anymore and that trickled down to the rest of them.

    Once Damian was around DC decided they needed to create more characters closer to his age for him to have his own peers so we started getting things like the de-aged Raven and Beast Boy and then Kid Flash II and finally Red Arrow (Emiko) and Superboy (Jon). It all goes back to the creation of Damian.

    This is the sad trend with teen heroes the last 20 years though. A team is around for a while and builds up a fanbase and then a new writer comes in and wants to create a whole new team. I mean DC was pretty good about this until Damian came along compared to Marvel. Marvel teen heroes have a very short shelf life compared to groups like the TT and YJ. Marvel teen heroes have a shelf life of about 5 years max before they get sent off to limbo for the next round of teens that no one will care about.
    Pretty sure that the person wearing green and red running around with Batman in batman comics for the past couple of years isn't called Damian.
    Pretty sure Raven and Beast boy were de-aged and put on a team with Tim predates Damian's TT.

    It's nothing to do with Damian much like Dick's history been grafted onto Tim and his generation [making them the 1st Titans] had nothing to do with Tim.

    Yeah companies have to juggle generations however what happened to Tim's generation was just poor management and happened before Damian, Jon or Red Arrow.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    They wanted the YJ generation to be THE young hero generation in the New 52. They removed Dick's Titans history and pretty much erased or sidelined his entire generation of characters to make room for Tim's generation to be the founding Titans members. Dick's generation got squeezed out of continuity because there wasn't room for all of them when they were trying to deage and write younger versions of the main DC heroes. It was the New 52 so most creative teams were given a bad situation to work with, but Lobdell's incredibly poor writing and voices for most of his characters was inexcusable. I'd still give him most of the blame.

    Now that Dick's generation is back in continuity, and DC is trying to flesh out Damian's generation more, it is Tim's generation that is getting hurt now in Rebirth. They still refuse to write Dick's generation like actual adults so that made them sideline Tim's generation so they don't have two generations of characters basically doing and acting the same in their series. The problem is that DC can't juggle all of their different generation of characters at once so one group seems to always get hurt.
    Spot on. Not much else to say on top of that.

  15. #45
    Mighty Member Uncanny Mutie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Connor wasn't really YJ Generation he was about 4-5 years older.

    I think them big problem with him was that they aged Olli massivly down with the reboot, so he was in his iirc mid to late 20s (I guess to match the TV series). There was really not possibility that he could have a 20 year old son.
    Connors age was even pre flashpoint, hard to justify, but post flashpoint there was just no way.
    Exactly. That's why out of all the characters the OP listed, Connor is probably the one we will NEVER see again. Or if they do decide to bring him back some kind of way in a different version, there's no way he will/can be Ollie's son.

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