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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncanny Mutie View Post
    Exactly. That's why out of all the characters the OP listed, Connor is probably the one we will NEVER see again. Or if they do decide to bring him back some kind of way in a different version, there's no way he will/can be Ollie's son.
    Yeeeeeah, no. Connor was set to come back with Percy's run before he got cut short and with Ollie aged up from the Nu52, Connor could easily fit as an 18/19 year old son.

  2. #47
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    I think Conner Hawke sort of falls into that same category as Aquaman's oldest son Koryak in that they are kind of too old to exist in the way the DCU is set up now. Plus they have been sort of replaced by character like Red Arrow and Aqualad so there is no real place for them anymore. They did use a version of Conner in the Earth 2 book, and I would not be against them using him if they ever do a new JSA book as their version of Green Arrow.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    I think Conner Hawke sort of falls into that same category as Aquaman's oldest son Koryak in that they are kind of too old to exist in the way the DCU is set up now. Plus they have been sort of replaced by character like Red Arrow and Aqualad so there is no real place for them anymore. They did use a version of Conner in the Earth 2 book, and I would not be against them using him if they ever do a new JSA book as their version of Green Arrow.
    What did Aqualad replace Koryak as? The two have very different histories and roles and hell Jackson hasn't even appeared in the main Aquaman book since the New 52.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    I think Conner Hawke sort of falls into that same category as Aquaman's oldest son Koryak in that they are kind of too old to exist in the way the DCU is set up now. Plus they have been sort of replaced by character like Red Arrow and Aqualad so there is no real place for them anymore. They did use a version of Conner in the Earth 2 book, and I would not be against them using him if they ever do a new JSA book as their version of Green Arrow.
    There's room for whatever DC wants there to be room for. They haven't been replaced as Connor and Koryak were never 'sidekicks' and again, Connor WAS going to return.

    And I'd definitely be against that fake, white, garbage Earth-2 Connor being seen again in any context. But I can rest easy there since A) he died and B) we're probably never seeing that version of Earth-2 again.

  5. #50
    Mighty Member Uncanny Mutie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    Yeeeeeah, no. Connor was set to come back with Percy's run before he got cut short and with Ollie aged up from the Nu52, Connor could easily fit as an 18/19 year old son.
    Hadn't heard that Percy was planning on bringing Connor back. But what was he going to bring him back as? A 10 to 12 year old who could hang out with Jon and Damian? Because Rebirth Ollie still seems written like a 20 something year old to me, where as pre-New 52 Ollie was written as more of a 40-something year old, aging playboy and was treated like one of the elder statesmen of DC's superhero community.

    Plus, if Connor was to be brought in, then where exactly would that have left Emiko...? Or even Roy, when he got face time in Green Arrow's book?
    Last edited by Uncanny Mutie; 05-23-2018 at 12:16 PM.

  6. #51
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    What did Aqualad replace Koryak as? The two have very different histories and roles and hell Jackson hasn't even appeared in the main Aquaman book since the New 52.
    The younger Aquahero. It is hard enough to find a uses for Tempest and Aqualad these days let alone if you threw in another younger aquahero.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    Plus they have been sort of replaced by character like Red Arrow and Aqualad so there is no real place for them anymore.
    Yes there is. Connor and Emi are two completely different characters. I'd even throw Mia in there too. They can all coexist. It's not hard.
    Imagine being proud to have negative traits. I canít relate.

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  8. #53
    Mighty Member Uncanny Mutie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Black View Post
    Yes there is. Connor and Emi are two completely different characters. I'd even throw Mia in there too. They can all coexist. It's not hard.
    As a Green Arrow fan, I disagree. Emiko is fine and maybe even Roy guess starring every now and then. But if I have to read a Green Arrow book about him AND 3+ of his bow and arrow using younger sidekicks basically being "Team Arrow," then that's a big turn off. It's the same reason Detective Comics being a "Bat Team" book full of multiple, redundant Batman sidekicks didn't do much for me as a Batman fan.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncanny Mutie View Post
    As a Green Arrow fan, I disagree. Emiko is fine and maybe even Roy guess starring every now and then. But if I have to read a Green Arrow book about him AND 3+ of his bow and arrow using younger sidekicks basically being "Team Arrow," then that's a big turn off. It's the same reason Detective Comics being a "Bat Team" book full of multiple, redundant Batman sidekicks didn't do much for me as a Batman fan.
    A writer can make anything work. It's that simple. It's only redundant if the writer wills it.

    Edit: I think skills and personality can play a part so it won't be redundant. But if too many sidekicks is the case. They can always do backsups, minis, ongoings, etc.
    Last edited by Raijin; 05-23-2018 at 12:38 PM.
    Imagine being proud to have negative traits. I canít relate.

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  10. #55
    Mighty Member Uncanny Mutie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Black View Post
    A writer can make anything work. It's that simple. It's only redundant if the writer wills it.

    Edit: I think skills and personality can play a part so it won't be redundant. But if too many sidekicks is the case. They can always do backsups, minis, ongoings, etc.
    Most writers can't make it work, though, which is the point, and why stuff like that usually underwhelms and fails (ESPECIALLY when it comes to street level stuff like Green Arrow; Green Arrow is no Green Lantern Corps). So as a reader, to me, it's not even worth the hassle of having 5 or 6 characters on one team who basically do the same thing.

  11. #56
    Mighty Member Uncanny Mutie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Black View Post
    Yes there is. Connor and Emi are two completely different characters. I'd even throw Mia in there too. They can all coexist. It's not hard.
    Of course all three of them are different characters...at least personality wise. But you can't say they're COMPLETELY different characters when they all do the exact same thing. If you don't get that, then you just won't get it.

  12. #57
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncanny Mutie View Post
    As a Green Arrow fan, I disagree. Emiko is fine and maybe even Roy guess starring every now and then. But if I have to read a Green Arrow book about him AND 3+ of his bow and arrow using younger sidekicks basically being "Team Arrow," then that's a big turn off. It's the same reason Detective Comics being a "Bat Team" book full of multiple, redundant Batman sidekicks didn't do much for me as a Batman fan.
    That is the crux of the problem. The more knocks off you get the less there is you can do with them. I mean just look at Green Arrow. In the last 20 years you have had:

    Arsenal (Roy Harper)
    Green Arrow (Conner Hawke)
    Speedy (Mia Dearden)
    Arrowette (Suzzane King-Jones)
    Red Arrow (Emiko Queen)

    And that is not even counting Artemis from the Young Justice series that many people want introduced in the DCU proper. When you get a book that has multiple characters who all have the same gimick it gets boring fast. Even back when Waid was writing Flash and using 5 or 6 speedsters per story it got stale quick. I also agree about Batman and his army of sidekicks he has going on now.

    Sure you can have mutliple versions of the same basic character running around, but why would you want to? In the end it just ends up giving you a watered down whole. Instead of having one or maybe 2 really great versions you get 4 or 5 "meh" versions with most just waiting to become cannon fodder in some future event book.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    The younger Aquahero. It is hard enough to find a uses for Tempest and Aqualad these days let alone if you threw in another younger aquahero.
    Koryak is older than Jackson. If the Batfamily can have God knows how many teens it shouldn't be too difficult to come with uses for both Jackson and Koryak.

  14. #59
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Koryak is older than Jackson. If the Batfamily can have God knows how many teens it shouldn't be too difficult to come with uses for both Jackson and Koryak.
    And right now the Bat-family sucks because of all the kids running around. It dilutes not only the sidekick role but the mentor role in their own books when you have to make page time for all knockoffs.

  15. #60
    Mighty Member Uncanny Mutie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    That is the crux of the problem. The more knocks off you get the less there is you can do with them. I mean just look at Green Arrow. In the last 20 years you have had:

    Arsenal (Roy Harper)
    Green Arrow (Conner Hawke)
    Speedy (Mia Dearden)
    Arrowette (Suzzane King-Jones)
    Red Arrow (Emiko Queen)

    And that is not even counting Artemis from the Young Justice series that many people want introduced in the DCU proper. When you get a book that has multiple characters who all have the same gimick it gets boring fast. Even back when Waid was writing Flash and using 5 or 6 speedsters per story it got stale quick. I also agree about Batman and his army of sidekicks he has going on now.

    Sure you can have mutliple versions of the same basic character running around, but why would you want to? In the end it just ends up giving you a watered down whole. Instead of having one or maybe 2 really great versions you get 4 or 5 "meh" versions with most just waiting to become cannon fodder in some future event book.
    THANK YOU!!! You get it. Hell, even if you just look at the convoluted Robins situation, they made Dick a completely different hero who can operate independent of Batman on his own, made Jason a gun toting Punisher type (albeit toned down now that he is a full on hero), and reduced poor Tim to just an insecure, unsure, clumsy tech guy who spends more time behind a computer than fighting hand to hand in the field, and Damian is---well---Damian. The Robins (and by extension, the rest of the Batman sidekicks)---as much as they have gone out of their way to differentiate them all--are a complete an utter mess, ESPECIALLY when they are all featured in a story together (Batman Eternal, Rebirth Detective Comics). The 5 or 6 Green Arrow sidekicks/legacy characters are even less differentiated than all the Robins and all the other Batman sidekicks, so who on Earth would go out of their way to read a book that's overcrowded with all of them at once?!?

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