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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    And right now the Bat-family sucks because of all the kids running around. It dilutes not only the sidekick role but the mentor role in their own books when you have to make page time for all knockoffs.
    1) the number of sidekicks isn't the issue. Grant Morrison made a large Batfamily work.

    2) you're using the word "knockoffs" wrong.

  2. #62
    Mighty Member Uncanny Mutie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    And right now the Bat-family sucks because of all the kids running around. It dilutes not only the sidekick role but the mentor role in their own books when you have to make page time for all knockoffs.
    Absolutely my point. Batman can't even pull it off with all of his Bat Family sidekicks running around all at once, so how the heck do you think Green Arrow could pull it off it when his family of sidekicks is even more derivative than most of Batman's? Plus, in a way, it also kinda puts Green Arrow back in that "poor man's Batman" box, in my opinion, which is NEVER good for Green Arrow as a character.
    Last edited by Uncanny Mutie; 05-23-2018 at 01:09 PM.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncanny Mutie View Post
    Of course all three of them are different characters...at least personality wise. But you can't say they're COMPLETELY different characters when they all do the exact same thing. If you don't get that, then you just won't get it.
    It's sounds like something you don't get. Yes they are all archers, okay? That's literally the only similarities they share. It just like sounds like you're being closed minded and that goes nowhere. Moving on.
    Imagine being proud to have negative traits. I can’t relate.

    DC: Justice League, The Flash, Justice League Dark, Superman, Action Comics, Green Arrow, Justice League Odyssey, The Terrifics, Teen Titans, Titans, Brimstone, Female Furies, Damage, Heroes In Crisis

    Marvel: The Punisher, Cosmic Ghost Rider, Venom, X-23, Cloak and Dagger, Jessica Jones, Sentry

    Indies: Unnatural, Jeepers Creepers, Project Superpowers, Black Hammer, Ninja-K

  4. #64
    Mighty Member Uncanny Mutie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Black View Post
    Moving on.
    Great! Thanks!

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    1) the number of sidekicks isn't the issue. Grant Morrison made a large Batfamily work.

    2) you're using the word "knockoffs" wrong.
    They act as if a writer can't find suitable roles for a big cast of characters. There are so many ways you can utilize Roy, Mia, Connor and Emi without diluting Oliver. But yeah.....I don't get it. Please.
    Imagine being proud to have negative traits. I can’t relate.

    DC: Justice League, The Flash, Justice League Dark, Superman, Action Comics, Green Arrow, Justice League Odyssey, The Terrifics, Teen Titans, Titans, Brimstone, Female Furies, Damage, Heroes In Crisis

    Marvel: The Punisher, Cosmic Ghost Rider, Venom, X-23, Cloak and Dagger, Jessica Jones, Sentry

    Indies: Unnatural, Jeepers Creepers, Project Superpowers, Black Hammer, Ninja-K

  6. #66
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    Well, at least The Ray is back. And only a little tweaked from before.

  7. #67
    Mighty Member Rise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    1) the number of sidekicks isn't the issue. Grant Morrison made a large Batfamily work.

    2) you're using the word "knockoffs" wrong.
    How did Morrison made it work? By making more characters in INC who end up being forgetten?

  8. #68
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    Snip (10 chars).
    Last edited by Mataza; 05-23-2018 at 03:01 PM. Reason: Someone gave a better answer already

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rise View Post
    And you forget to mention superhero girls which is far more successful than Moon Girl. They already trying to create several imprints to suit all ages.

    And if you want example from comics, look at TT. DC has been pushing and promoting the brand for years and it still didn't get the results they hoped for which is why it keep relaunching.
    HOW??? Those toys are shelf warming everywhere including Toys R Us of all places. I am not seeing kids fight over the chance to read about them-I do see that with Moon Girl and Ms Marvel.

    If you got TT right in the FIRST place you would not need to restart nonstop. Why is there a battle to get this roster right? Let alone stories where teens are not being butchered in events. Tim's generation was being screwed over before New 52.

    Someone would have to explain to me if I was the head of WB let alone DC this-

    How do you ruin-Tim, Conner, Bart, Static, Jaime, Jason Rusch, Cassandra Cain, Stephanie Brown, Meggan, Cassie and even the Jurdens/Perez Titans?

    After Tim, Bart, Jaime, Conner, Static, Jason & Cassandra account for almost over 500+ solo issues.

    Tim has almost 200 by himself. Conner has 100. Bart has 112.

    It will take Miles Morales, Sam Alexander (Not counting Rich's runs) & Ms Marvel at least 3 years to sniff 100.

    Explain how Cain & Brown became PITCH TOXIC and EDITED out of books.

    How is Miles and friends running buck wild over DC's teens in less time (7 years) than it took to build up Tim and his friends?

    Miles & friends have had to deal with every bigot, folks who don't read comics, entitlement fan and everything else to get to where they are.

    I wouldn't need Duke if my girls were not deem toxic to DC and if DC has invested in another black teen be it Static, Jason or Natasha Irons.

    IN fact why would anyone want to invest in Duke, New SUperman, Sideways or even Damian & Jon? History says they will ALL suffer the same fate.

    There is no excuse for poor writing and editing for what is now almost 20 years. And you got the better roster.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    They wanted the YJ generation to be THE young hero generation in the New 52. They removed Dick's Titans history and pretty much erased or sidelined his entire generation of characters to make room for Tim's generation to be the founding Titans members. Dick's generation got squeezed out of continuity because there wasn't room for all of them when they were trying to deage and write younger versions of the main DC heroes. It was the New 52 so most creative teams were given a bad situation to work with, but Lobdell's incredibly poor writing and voices for most of his characters was inexcusable. I'd still give him most of the blame.
    See thats the thing, Lodbell didnt get the voices wrong, he was ordered to write them like that. I remember reading an interview where he was explaining the pitch, and he wrote them perfectly considering what the goal was.

  11. #71
    Incredible Member astro@work's Avatar
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    It's not clear to me whether any of the nu52 versions still exist in Rebirth continuity other than Tim.

    Tim-yes
    Bart (now Bar Torr) was last seen off in the future, but unseen since Rebirth.
    Cassie- last seen in nu52 TT, not seen since Rebirth.
    Conner- dies in nu52, but not remembered in Rebirth when the alternate version future TT showed up.

    I'm hoping when Bart and Cassie DO reappear, they will be more classic versions. Bar Torr should be ignored completely, with a restored Bart in his place.
    Cassie doesn't necessarily need to be started from scratch, but she needs a back-to-her roots rebirthing.
    Conner's backstory could still work...Lobdell just dwelled on the WMD aaspect waaaaayyyy too long....yet nobody remembers him so would seem to be officially OUT of continuity.

    Maybe when Doomsday Clock concludes in 2021 or 2023, the "ten lost years" will be restored and we'll get back some recognizable versions.

  12. #72
    Mighty Member Rise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    HOW??? Those toys are shelf warming everywhere including Toys R Us of all places. I am not seeing kids fight over the chance to read about them-I do see that with Moon Girl and Ms Marvel.
    There are actual reports about it doing so well to the point WB actually expecting to be a 1B franchise. Moon Girl is nowhere close to this.

    If you got TT right in the FIRST place you would not need to restart nonstop. Why is there a battle to get this roster right? Let alone stories where teens are not being butchered in events. Tim's generation was being screwed over before New 52.

    Someone would have to explain to me if I was the head of WB let alone DC this-

    How do you ruin-Tim, Conner, Bart, Static, Jaime, Jason Rusch, Cassandra Cain, Stephanie Brown, Meggan, Cassie and even the Jurdens/Perez Titans?

    After Tim, Bart, Jaime, Conner, Static, Jason & Cassandra account for almost over 500+ solo issues.

    Tim has almost 200 by himself. Conner has 100. Bart has 112.

    It will take Miles Morales, Sam Alexander (Not counting Rich's runs) & Ms Marvel at least 3 years to sniff 100.

    Explain how Cain & Brown became PITCH TOXIC and EDITED out of books.

    How is Miles and friends running buck wild over DC's teens in less time (7 years) than it took to build up Tim and his friends?

    Miles & friends have had to deal with every bigot, folks who don't read comics, entitlement fan and everything else to get to where they are.

    I wouldn't need Duke if my girls were not deem toxic to DC and if DC has invested in another black teen be it Static, Jason or Natasha Irons.

    IN fact why would anyone want to invest in Duke, New SUperman, Sideways or even Damian & Jon? History says they will ALL suffer the same fate.

    There is no excuse for poor writing and editing for what is now almost 20 years. And you got the better roster.
    DC didn't do it because they hate money. They wanted them to success and it didn't work.

    A character doing "100" issues before doesn't mean they will be able to pull these numbers again. Superman used to sell around 400k and now he hardly sell over 40k. Time changes and some characters simply don't appeal to newer generation like they used to appeal to you when you were younger.
    Last edited by Rise; 05-24-2018 at 01:20 AM.

  13. #73
    Ultimate Member Holt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Koryak is older than Jackson. If the Batfamily can have God knows how many teens it shouldn't be too difficult to come with uses for both Jackson and Koryak.
    The Batman family is also much, much more popular than the Aquaman family, which means there's enough demand that they usually have enough slots to fit everyone in. But even that's not always the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    HOW??? Those toys are shelf warming everywhere including Toys R Us of all places.
    They sell well enough that the series has been going for several years now and is getting a TV show. I can walk into Target and find a bunch of Iron Man toys sitting on pegs too, but that doesn't mean he's not selling.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rise View Post
    How did Morrison made it work? By making more characters in INC who end up being forgetten?
    Didn't hear any complaints about it during his run.

  15. #75
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    You mean Morrison who booted Tim from Robin, and reverted Jason into a balding red head. Ya, there were no complaints there...

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