Page 5 of 9 FirstFirst 123456789 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 128
  1. #61
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    3,378

    Default

    The problem with saying it's a misogyny thing is that the last guy who ran the Star Wars franchise was George Lucas. White male. Original creator. And the fans treated him so badly he flat out said he was sick of making films because he'd put one out there and everyone would tell him how terrible he was. Lucas had fans making movies about how terrible he was and how he was ruining the franchise. The term "raping my childhood" was coined partially for him.

    This isn't a new thing.

    Star Wars just has unrealistic expectations.

  2. #62
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    3,368

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Nobody is flawless, but a good 90% of the hate seems obvious blistering misogyny. And also very obvious racism because this only started once people of colour started to get big parts in Star Wars movies.
    I agree. Kathleen Kennedy may have made mistakes in Star Wars. But the kind of hatred she receives is surprising. There are people who genuinely did not like these films. But its mostly due to misogyny and racism. Solo is the first legitimate failure in the BO. Otherwise, she has done a splendid job so far. In fact, the only complaint i can make for her is the re-shoots.

  3. #63
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    10,142

    Default

    I think you need to break down the complaints.

    You have many who are motivated by misogyny and racism.

    You also have many who don't want to see anything different - the type who have been angry with Lucas over the prequels to a degree out of sync with how good or bad the films really were.

    Then you have some legitimate gripes. On the business end, it really looks like Kennedy wasn't paying close enough attention to what was going on until the cost of changing course ballooned outrageously. When dealing with a franchise you need to keep some control without turning into a micromanager, and it seems she has been unable to find the right balance.

    I don't think I'll be sad to see her go, but I don't hate her. I reserve that for people who I have proof of butchering what could have been much better films without them being involved. Like the idiots who edited Kingdom of Heaven. The director's cut is a good movie, the theatrical cut is utter garbage. The people who insisted on making it shorter should never be allowed to make such calls again.
    Last edited by Gray Lensman; 06-03-2018 at 01:15 AM.

  4. #64
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    3,378

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Soubhagya View Post
    I agree. Kathleen Kennedy may have made mistakes in Star Wars. But the kind of hatred she receives is surprising. There are people who genuinely did not like these films. But its mostly due to misogyny and racism. Solo is the first legitimate failure in the BO. Otherwise, she has done a splendid job so far. In fact, the only complaint i can make for her is the re-shoots.
    This is what I don't really get though. I don't get how people can say the hate she gets is surprising when Lucas had scores of people trashing him for the same franchise. We didn't get a "The People VS Kathleen Kennedy" yet. We didn't get South Park have Kathleen raping a stormtrooper yet.

    I think saying it's misogyny is kind of an easy out when this is shit that persisted in Star Wars fandom many years before Kathleen Kennedy was a thing.

    It's more of a "Star Wars fandom is really rabid" thing.

    I also don't know if I'd say she did a splendid job so far. She made one film that was largely viewed as a copy and paste of A New Hope, Rogue One which was the only one that was generally well received without many complaints, the most divisive Star Wars movie ever in The Last Jedi, and Solo being the first franchise failure.

  5. #65

    Default

    Star Wars fans are really vocal because Star Wars is a really special thing, a cultural phenomenon hardly without equal, and every fann views Star Wars differently.

    In my personal opinion, I feel that the complaints and gripes people have with Kennedy are more than legitimate and does have a basis. I don't like the way she has handled the franchise nor her response to criticisms made by fans and others. Her behavior is simply just not professional and paints her employers and the company in a very bad light. For that, there should be repercussions. Perhaps some fans go overboard with their hate, but her attitude doesn't exactly ingratiate her to me or to many others it seems.

    So yes, the gripes are legitimate.
    Fanfiction.net account - I post fanfiction from time to time. Hop on in and take a look if you're interested.

  6. #66
    Relic Seeker Pinsir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Ravnica
    Posts
    3,781

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaastra View Post
    And john has just released this video.

    I'll offer a rebuttal to each point

    > the numerous creative differences that have plagued each film since The Force Awakens

    These obviously exist, but he's ignoring the likelihood that Disney placed a yearly scheduled of Star Wars films on a studio that, as of now, has produced 8 films in the 21st century. In all likelihood these films would still have production issues if Kennedy was fired, perhaps being placed in a more dire situation should a person with less qualifications man the helm.

    Also, not a huge fan of the Kevin Fiege wank. I know MCU fans have selective amnesia over the franchise, but Fiege has had similar conflicts with creative talent. Edgar Wright left Ant-Man, Patty Jenkins left Thor 2, and Mickey Rourke has publicly denounced the company for chopping up his scenes.

    > refusal to expand the Star Wars universe, rehashing old characters and stories

    I agree, but this was obviously a response to the vitriol directed at the Prequels. You had an entire trilogy of films with new locations and characters, but the """""fans""""" rioted. It was a logical step to have the new films return to formula. I mean, this guy in his opening salvo said he not only disliked the Prequels, but the Clone Wars series as well, then he mentions he likes parts of the baby Rebels tv show, i.e. the nostalgia pandering one.

    So the guy wants new things, but admits to hating everything that doesn't involve the OT...

    > inability to unify the Star Wars fanbase

    The only reason why the fanbase was 'unified' earlier was because of their childish hatred of the Prequels. The new films are actually much more liked than the Prequels. He also claims that unifying the fanbase is an impossible task, yet she should be fired for not being able to do the impossible...He actually says this!

    > financial failure of Solo

    The second MCU film, the Incredible Hulk, flopped or at a bare minimum broke even. Studios, unless they are in dire circumstances, don't treat flops as seriously as commenters do. The MCU simply changed course, dropping Hulk films all together. There is no reason to assume Kennedy cannot do the same.

    > change the culture at Lucasfilm

    There really is no reason to assume the culture would change simply by firing a single person. There is a wider corporate culture that is obvious to any casual observer of the industry. Hbomberguy, noted fan of the Prequels, actually produced a video about this topic not too long ago (here it is). It may be a bit jarring if you haven't watched his other videos.
    Last edited by Pinsir; 06-03-2018 at 10:24 AM.
    Want to read Wonder Woman stories, but don't know where to start? Check out my top 10 lists for Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age and Modern Age Wonder Woman tales!

    I don't dislike the MCU films because they're Marvel branded, I dislike them because they're bad films.

  7. #67
    Mighty Member Anthony W's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    1,033

    Default

    Disney needs to hire someone who can handle the creative stuff and she can just handle the financial end.

  8. #68
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    5,812

    Default

    I have heard many people say Dave Filoni should handle the creative side while Kennedy just concentrates on the business side.

  9. #69

    Default

    Why I think some maybe miso my. It's certainly not 90%. There are also people with legitimate gripes. I think Kathleen get the blame unfairly because she is the face of Lucasfilm. So some people not all but some look for a target to vent their frustration. That said to claim either side is majority is unfair. Just my two cents.

  10. #70
    BAMF!!!!! KurtW95's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    8,076

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    I have heard many people say Dave Filoni should handle the creative side while Kennedy just concentrates on the business side.
    I always thought Filoni would be the best person to run Lucasfilm. Too bad it’s now impossible to fix the sequel trilogy unless they’re somehow rendered non-canon.
    Good Marvel characters- Bring Them Back!!!

  11. #71
    BAMF!!!!! KurtW95's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    8,076

    Default

    Anybody see Jeremy Jahnsí video on the topic? I think he made a lot of very good points.

    Good Marvel characters- Bring Them Back!!!

  12. #72
    Incredible Member ClanAskani's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    521

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    I have heard many people say Dave Filoni should handle the creative side while Kennedy just concentrates on the business side.
    Disney execs are going to have a bigger issue with the business side than the creative. Kennedy has had to push back almost every release date, fire multiple writers and directors, halt production, do costly reshoots.

    On the other hand, Marvel keeps everything on schedule and on budget. If Solo had cost what it was suppose to cost ($100 Million budget plus probably $75 Million to market worldwide), the OW would have been a disappointment but still could be profitable.

    The other issue with someone being in-charge of the creative is that it directors and/or writers want creative control and freedom to do whatever they want. Filoni has no experience in film. While Rebels is well-received by fans, it debuted so well that it could have been moved to ABC but then the ratings declined and it was moved to Disney XD.

    Kevin Feige and Marvel Studios clashed with the Marvel Creative Committee and ultimately the filmmakers won out over a group having creative control. It seems like the Lucasfilm story group avoids any of those issues by being just continuity/research rather than trying to control what JJ or Rian did on Episodes 7 and 8. It seems like the mentality is that anyone who wants to pitch an idea can do so. If some big name writer or director wants to do his/her Star Wars story, I can't see Disney saying some animation producer gets to override him/her. For example, say Joss Whedon decides he wants to do a Star Wars anthology film while the Game of Thrones guys are doing another and Rian Johnson is doing his trilogy and James Mangold is doing the Boba Fett movie and they all clash and have no continuity - but they're all successful storytellers who don't like people telling them what to do. Is Disney going to let someone like Dave Filoni overrule them and tell them to change their stories or potentially risk losing directors due to creative interference?
    Last edited by ClanAskani; 06-04-2018 at 05:03 PM.

  13. #73
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    5,812

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ClanAskani View Post

    The other issue with someone being in-charge of the creative is that it directors and/or writers want creative control and freedom to do whatever they want. Filoni has no experience in film. While Rebels is well-received by fans, it debuted so well that it could have been moved to ABC but then the ratings declined and it was moved to Disney XD.
    That is an easy fix though. If you want to play with our toys you play by our rules. No director or writer should come into a Star Wars film thinking they should have complete control. that is just not how it is done when you are dealing with huge properties. They gave Rain Johnson too much control and he split the fanbase and started this wave of negativity that has washed over Star Wars the last 2 years. He is the text book example of why you DON'T give a hired hand total control over a mega property.

  14. #74
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    6,038

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    > inability to unify the Star Wars fanbase

    The only reason why the fanbase was 'unified' earlier was because of their childish hatred of the Prequels. The new films are actually much more liked than the Prequels. He also claims that unifying the fanbase is an impossible task, yet she should be fired for not being able to do the impossible...He actually says this!
    I don't think there's ever been a unified fanbase. At any rate, almost all the blame for the division can be laid at the feet of fans themselves. We alone control how we'll react when we don't like stuff. It's a choice to discuss it civilly (or refrain if it's too much of a sore subject) or be a toxic jerk over it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    > financial failure of Solo

    The second MCU film, the Incredible Hulk, flopped or at a bare minimum broke even. Studios, unless they are in dire circumstances, don't treat flops as seriously as commenters do. The MCU simply changed course, dropping Hulk films all together. There is no reason to assume Kennedy cannot do the same.
    Besides, Disney has had three successful films in a row. Even if Solo's "failure" does cause them to rethink how they move forward with the franchise, the narrative that I've seen some haters pushing that the franchise is falling apart around Disney and they're on the brink of failure simply isn't true.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  15. #75
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    With the Orishas
    Posts
    5,885

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PenUltimateInkmaster View Post
    Star Wars fans are really vocal because Star Wars is a really special thing, a cultural phenomenon hardly without equal, and every fann views Star Wars differently.

    In my personal opinion, I feel that the complaints and gripes people have with Kennedy are more than legitimate and does have a basis. I don't like the way she has handled the franchise nor her response to criticisms made by fans and others. Her behavior is simply just not professional and paints her employers and the company in a very bad light. For that, there should be repercussions. Perhaps some fans go overboard with their hate, but her attitude doesn't exactly ingratiate her to me or to many others it seems.

    So yes, the gripes are legitimate.
    Apart from J.J Abrams, Lucasfilm/Disney have largely kept silent in the face of the criticism.

    Kennedy made comments about not owing male fans a thing before the production of the new movies but that was before the TLJ controversy.
    "Obviously not all conservatives are racists/bigots but all racists/bigots claim to be conservative"- Unknown

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •