MAN OF STEEL (2018) Event mini-series Discussion thread (SPOILERS)

[stephens2177]

Its to the point of intellectual dishonesty now to keep trying to pretend that Bendis's "apologizing" remarks were not completely tongue-in-cheek and a joke. This faux-outage over it like he's seriously expecting flocks of fans who were/are wary to offer him a personal apology was ridiculous then and continues to only get more ridiculous the longer the narrative is peddled.


And if generally disliking the the Rebirth era makes one dead inside...paint me pretty happy to be dead inside! Because indeed in general I felt the era was mediocre at absolute best and am ecstatic that its over. I'm also well aware and comfortable knowing that's a minority take. Because despite being a minority opinion, its no less an opinion that I formed with thought and with reason, so I have absolutely no reason to be ashamed. Nor should anyone else who happened to not like the run. A majority opinion does not mean it has to be the only opinion; nor does it mean said dissenting opinions are automatically invalid.

Damn I would vote for you

[Superlad93]

Bendis arrogantly told CBR earlier this week that Superman fans "being good people" would be "apologizing" in a few months.

Not an attack or anything, but I just want to keep the facts straight: you're misquoting him or at the very least ascribing that quote in reference to something other than its intend subject. The actual quote was in reference to the Lois and Jon stuff (a story that will be unfolding over a year) and not the first issue of MOS or even the mini itself.

1-assuming Rogol is addressing this "Circle" in the distant past, there's still time for Krypton to move from an imperialist form of government to the isolationists they have to be for Jor-El and Lara's dilemma to make sense. If this is only, say, 50 years in the past, it doesn't work at all and is an unnecessary retcon. Bendis has been known to change or ignore continuity to fit a story. I hate it when writers do that but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

If Johns stuff is at all in play then wouldn't it still make perfect sense? One of the main reasons for xenophobia in Johns run was the Kandor shrinking incident, and that was less than a decade. Plus, I feel like he'd get a pretty big pass given Reborn changed continuity to something that amalgamates post-crisis and new 52, and leaves ample room for new stuff. So regadless of if Johns stuff is still totally in play or not, it's not really a retcon of anything if that history isn't firmly out there to be contradicted in the first place. Technically speaking, Bendis will be the first to provide that history right now, and he'd be welcome to mix and match whatever post-crisis, pre-crisis, new 52, and original stuff he'd want.

[SiegePerilous02]

2-I don't think it's jumping the gun to see the introduction of Melody Moore (IIRC) as a love interest for Clark while Lois and Jon are wherever they are. This reeks of the cheapest kind of soap-opera garbage but is sadly a part of Bendis' MO in the past. There are a number of you here who defend anything that happens to the marriage with the "well, it'll be fixed by the time of Doomsday Clock," but that's missing the point. The marriage does NOT need to be tweaked or played with in this way. It's low-hanging fruit and I'd hope a writer with Bendis' experience would do better. If that's not why she's there, what is her purpose? She's clearly the gun over the mantle in scene one that's going to be fired in scene 3.

I think it's jumping the gun to assume a new character who happens to be a woman who thinks Superman is attractive (because he is, and she has eyes) is only there to serve the purpose of being a threat to the marriage when there is no evidence of that. She's a civilian supporting character who is a firefighter in the ongoing arson plot. Surely she's there for reasons related more to that than being the dreaded "Other Woman"?

So what if she has the hots for him? So does a good chunk of the female population in the DCU, including some of his JL teammates.

3-Bendis' rather asinine comments to CBR about what he's going to do to fans with Lois and Jon being "a game" and that he is "messing with us," combined with his atrocious contribution to AC1K and lackluster story in DCN, has only added to my disdain for how Bendis has taken over the Superman titles. He is directly responsible for removing Jurgens and Tomasi/Gleason from the books (I know some of you who are dead inside found nothing to enjoy in them, but you're in the minority) and now he's condescending to fans. His output is going to have be the best work of his career to make up for this, at least for me. I'm not saying his Superman work won't be that, but I see the foundations of some typical Bendis tropes (marital strife, disregard for continuity) in this first issue.

Alternatively, the books were just not appealing to everyone. I read the first two trades of Tomasi's run and the first couple issues of Jurgens at the start of Rebirth, and they didn't do anything for me and I felt no desire to continue them. And it's not the marriage that had anything to do with it. Superman was married during the double date with Batman and Selina and it was great there. Superman has been great every time Seeley gets a hold of him (see the preview for Nightwing vs. Hush), and Snyder's upcoming JL run seems exciting.

The main two Superman books have just not been exciting. That doesn't mean people are dead inside, even if they are in the minority.

[Robotman]

while i loved the issue i still hope that Rogol Zaar isn't made the one responsible for Krypton's demise. the Kryptonian's hubris should be one of, if not the reason for the planet's destruction and their inability to escape. it's a far better cautionary tale. i liked how it was portrayed in MoS. Krypton was shown to be a dying empire. a civilization that had over taxed their natural resources and given up space travel and turned inward (a Krypton first movement?). Zod declaring that Lara giving natural birth was heresy kind of shows that they had become pretty fundamentalist in their religion and culture.

i guess the claim is that Rogol Zaar killed all the Kryptonians. which could mean that he tracked down and killed any survivors after the planet exploded (killed all remaining Kryptonians). i suppose it would make sense that a few others managed to escape. it is a bit silly to think that an advanced civilization was only able to get two small rockets out before the planet exploded. so there could have been more survivors but Zaar wiped them out.

[JAK]

Bendis arrogantly told CBR earlier this week that Superman fans "being good people" would be "apologizing" in a few months.

Perhaps, but I've seen nothing to apologize for yet.

It's been one issue. Bypassing that you're twisting his words and meaning a bit, there's no way to know yet.

I really enjoyed the opening bit with the Batman villains, the fire scene, and Superman's voice throughout. The super-hearing stuff was fantastic, playing on Clark's humanity and his nobility as a man who could eavesdrop on anyone he wants but is ever responsible. Also really enjoyed how Bendis had Superman deal with the fire, took me back to his solution to Joker's poison gas attack on the UN back in "A Death In The Family." Yep, I'm old.

Same! I'm 38 and I don't see myself as "old", but it's all good.

Here's what I have a lot of trouble with:

1-assuming Rogol is addressing this "Circle" in the distant past, there's still time for Krypton to move from an imperialist form of government to the isolationists they have to be for Jor-El and Lara's dilemma to make sense. If this is only, say, 50 years in the past, it doesn't work at all and is an unnecessary retcon. Bendis has been known to change or ignore continuity to fit a story. I hate it when writers do that but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I see this possible problem, too, but we'll know more in a few issues. There's still a way to do both, yet.

2-I don't think it's jumping the gun to see the introduction of Melody Moore (IIRC) as a love interest for Clark while Lois and Jon are wherever they are. This reeks of the cheapest kind of soap-opera garbage but is sadly a part of Bendis' MO in the past. There are a number of you here who defend anything that happens to the marriage with the "well, it'll be fixed by the time of Doomsday Clock," but that's missing the point. The marriage does NOT need to be tweaked or played with in this way. It's low-hanging fruit and I'd hope a writer with Bendis' experience would do better. If that's not why she's there, what is her purpose? She's clearly the gun over the mantle in scene one that's going to be fired in scene 3.

Or it could be that she's being introduced as sympathetic so we care more about her if something happens to her (for instance, say, trapped fighting a fire while Superman is busy and can't get to her). I see where you're coming from, and I agree that they don't need to put even a fake-out of a "the other woman" angle into Lois and Clark's marriage. But this doesn't have to be that (Ice, for instance, has had a "thing" for Superman for a looooong time. So I'm hoping it's more like that). Or she could "come on" to him and be rejected, and pull a "Maxima". Anything could happen.

3-Bendis' rather asinine comments to CBR about what he's going to do to fans with Lois and Jon being "a game" and that he is "messing with us," combined with his atrocious contribution to AC1K and lackluster story in DCN, has only added to my disdain for how Bendis has taken over the Superman titles. He is directly responsible for removing Jurgens and Tomasi/Gleason from the books (I know some of you who are dead inside found nothing to enjoy in them, but you're in the minority) and now he's condescending to fans. His output is going to have be the best work of his career to make up for this, at least for me. I'm not saying his Superman work won't be that, but I see the foundations of some typical Bendis tropes (marital strife, disregard for continuity) in this first issue.

But... it kinda "is" a game. We know that, for the most part, things will (most likely) work out. Look at the Superbooks in '93 - there was no Superman comic for a month or two. That's definitely them "playing" with our emotions for story purposes. But even though we know all this, we read for the adventure. Granted, I've been rough on Didio for just blatantly calling out the game, but this isn't quite that far, especially given the context. I'm willing to "wait and see" so far. If he does start that crap, then I'll be right there with you.

As for Rebirth... I loved it. I'm REALLY sad to see Jurgens go, especially. And I have to admit, I don't see what turns others off so damn bad.... but that doesn't mean they're "dead inside" if they didn't like it. And since more people love Batman "because he's Batman" (which I personally find idiotic, but to each their own), any one of us is in the minority opinion for liking Superman more... so being in the minority doesn't bother most here, or we wouldn't probably be here. So I don't see the need to attack each other (though I'm sure I've inadvertently done so myself, which I'm never proud of in hindsight).

I will be reading the rest of MoS and will decide to pick up Action and Superman based on the full mini. I have huge reservations about Bendis being involved with re(as writing the cosmic side of the DCU and feel he's already overextended writing these two books and his creator owned stuff.

I don't think there's cause for alarm yet, but I can see why you might be concerned. But I'd say give it two more books, just to be sure. I think this is just the "tip of the iceberg" of people he/they/we'll meet in the books, and hopefully it doesn't go how you're fearing.

[BFF]

do you guys think Bendis was making a comparison between Rogol and Hitler? With the Kryptonians being Jews (greedy, "globalist" capitalists)?

[TheCape]

As somebody that hasn't been fond of Bendis in a long time, this is a good start, it still has quirk but nothing cringe worthy, is at the very least promising. One thing that Bendis has at his advantage is continuity, he has a tendency to ignore it for the sake of his own story many times, but for the Superman franchise is more like a vague construct than anything specific, so hey this might be perfect for him.

[Somecrazyaussie]

do you guys think Bendis was making a comparison between Rogol and Hitler? With the Kryptonians being Jews (greedy, "globalist" capitalists)?

That's a pretty good catch. I hadn't noticed it, but I can see the similarities.

I also liked how Bendis played up the investigative aspect of Superman by having him explore the scene of the fire and using his X-ray vision to assess the structural integrity of the building while searching for what could have started the fire. We see him scanning electrical wires and gas pipes. It also wouldn't be a stretch for him to be able to smell for any traces of accelerant. It highlights what makes Clark a good investigative reporter.

[Kuwagaton]

That's quite a good point about Zaar and potentially Hitler.

Meanwhile, with Superman my biggest thing was having a confirmation from Bendis that Clark's time as Superman was actually a draw on its own. I think it's evident that Bendis worked really hard to tweak his writing to suit this title versus his regular Marvel work and the dialogue across the scenes we have show an introspective guy with a good heart and a knack for using his powers in fun ways to save the day. Beyond answering some of the questions I had there these were my favorite bits:

"I don't do that... but it's funny when he does it."
"He didn't sell it. It was much funnier when I said it."
- the first line from Clark vs the first line from Lois

"Is this everyone?"
"Holy !#$$#!:
- Superman, who can obviously detect life-forms, posing this question to a little girl about old enough to have imaginary friends/stuffed animals. And the little girl defying his expectations.

[Last Son of Krypton]

So someone thinks that Superman and Melody will end up like that in the near future? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9F6fbtgJDrg



I remember those who thought the same about Lee Lambert.

[ultrarider7]

Meh a woman finding Superman attractive doesn't mean Bendis is just going to make Clark and Moore have a thing. This reminds me of Lupé and her attraction to Superman so is not even the first time something like this happens.

[Superlad93]

Not totally sure how to interpret this but Bendis seems to be indicating that issue 3 is gonna be a big one to look out for.

https://twitter.com/BRIANMBENDIS/sta...70296005849088

Makes sense given that it's the halfway point of the mini. So keep an eye out.

[Robotman]

do you guys think Bendis was making a comparison between Rogol and Hitler? With the Kryptonians being Jews (greedy, "globalist" capitalists)?

I don’t really see him as a Hitler like character. I think his hatred of Kryptonians is just a result of their expansion and economic empire damaging smaller civilizations. In the DC Nation Sketchbook in the back of this week’s comics, Jim Lee staged that Bendis described Zaar as a “chieftain” when giving him advise on the character’s design. That leads me to believe he’s originally from a smaller society that was ravaged by the Kryptonian expansion/empire.

[Soubhagya]

Bit late to the party.

It was very good. I expected good things from Bendis but it was better.

-Loved the 'introduction' of Superman. It put a smile on my face. "Good plan".

-Really liked the part of Superman hearing the song. There were a number of small touches like this. Another one being the 'glowing' suit. Loved the 'staccato' way of blowing out fire. Nice touches.

-Lois and Jon were nice in the small appearances.

-Art was beautiful.

It was short. But then its weekly. Overall, i am very happy with the start.

[titansupes]

Tiny exchange I enjoyed--

"Am I taller than Wonder Woman?"
"Yes, actually."
"I knew it."