MAN OF STEEL (2018) Event mini-series Discussion thread (SPOILERS)

[jackolover]

So far Rogol Zaar seems to be a revamp of Amalak (in the same way Nimrod was a revamp of Terra-Man). Nothing wrong with that - I love Amalak - but that's not I was referring to.
The most interesting point is that if Krypton is exactly what Bendis suggests it to be, it was basically an alien version of what the United States have been accused to be for decades - an imperialist nation which preyed upon the resources of weaker countries. This does not make Kryptonians inherently evil - maybe they just ignored the problems they created. And this sounds very allegoric to me. It reminds me of George Romero: in some of his later movies, he created an allegoric version of America which ignored the problems (the zombies) they created, and where rich people weren't interested in what blue-collar workers did.

This puts Superman in an interesting position from an ethical point of view, because: A- Rogol Zaar could be partly right in his claims and B- Superman could see some analogies between Krypton and the country which adopted him. And this could be an interesting moral challenge about Superman's place in the world.

We'll wait and see, but this run could be more political than everyone expected it to be - in a good, not heavy-handed way.

I recognised the resemblance between Krypton and the USA too, in that ethically they behave the same way. Is Rogol Osama bin Laden then? One of Kryptons CIA backed group from his planet who got abandoned? Are we seeing the attack on the twin towers in MOS?

[jackolover]

Rogol Zaar's reason for wishing Krypton destroyed was that they were draining resources from other systems (which would mean that somehow they were acquiring them through unfair trades where the payment didn't compensate fully for the loss).

If Krypton still became isolationist before the explosion, then they were not draining resources any longer.

If they were not draining resources any longer, then his stated reason for wanting them gone would no longer exist, unless he switched somewhere along the way to being motivated by revenge and/or a desire to exact reparations of some sort.... and the latter would no longer be possible once the place exploded.

See, I don’t get this. Krypton has to be alive and exploiting for any of Rogols arguments to mean anything. If as you say Krypton exploded long ago, what the hell is Rogol attacking Superman and apparently Earth, if there is no Krypton. Revenge? Then Rogol is a lunatic. There is no apparent reason for Rogol to even still be harbouring any vindictiveness anymore after so long.

[JAK]

Is that a thing in Superman comics, that perps have to refrain from saying trigger words? Because I can’t remember it being that important that Clark’s super hearing has him zooming from one incident to another.

What I was intrigued with were to X-ray Vision scenes done by Reis. Are we to be able to notice clues in those images about what is causing these fires? I’m looking at the detail of the drafting by Reis, but nothing seems to be popping out at me, but Clark’s lingering gazes point out that something important is being shown here, I think. Anybody else with a detective mind notice anything out of place in the X-ray panels?

No, it's never been a thing before... but it makes perfect sense. It might not even be true, but any criminals would probably say these things to other criminals just to be "safe" - especially if they're trying to hide out, which is what Firefly was trying to do.

I didn't see anything, either, but you could very well be right!

Yeah, Rogol’s arguments against Krypton seem to have toned down to just over-exploitation rather than down-right murderous genocide, like he was implying in Action #1000. So if Rogol is out to start an offensive against Krypton, it is for the most flimsiest of reasons to my mind. And not just that, but, what has Earth got to do with Krypton hegemony anyway? Why is Rogol targeting Superman, when he had no control or political connection to Krypton? It smells of weak bullying to me.

But that aside, yes, I do think something bigger is going on here and sudden flair-ups in building fires is the first sign that Earth is being dragged into something dangerous, and Bendis is deliberately keeping us guessing instead of spelling it out to us.

See, I don’t get this. Krypton has to be alive and exploiting for any of Rogols arguments to mean anything. If as you say Krypton exploded long ago, what the hell is Rogol attacking Superman and apparently Earth, if there is no Krypton. Revenge? Then Rogol is a lunatic. There is no apparent reason for Rogol to even still be harbouring any vindictiveness anymore after so long.

I don't think Krypton exploded all *that* long ago, because Superman would be a lot older than he is, if that's the case. As for Rogol, I think that his problems with Krypton that we've seen so far are likely just the start. He may have a run-in with Zod that's dictated by (or not refused by) the High Council / Council of Elders against him personally that leaves him to set things in motion that destroy Krypton - or at the very least lead him to swear (in front of Jor-El, somehow) that he'll "kill every Kryptonian in existence for this!!" - that kinda thing.

[jackolover]

Thanks for bringing that up. Very subtle switch over, in time I guess it will be forgotten. Before the fish-face, I actually thought he would be like The Cleric.

Rogol Zaar... well, I get it that he has a basic look high concept story, but I wouldn't say generic. There is such a strong 50/50 (like him being correct or delusional, or lying instead of being just fervent) that while someone can be totally right about him, they could also be just as wrong. For now I'm just glad that he isn't generic enough to speak like an "eat your bones" alien meathead guy.



It's interesting considering the Guardians, who spoke to him, tend to act like buttheads to people. Even Superman on a few occasions. And whether they're right or not, Rogol is not caring at all about going against all those cosmic dudes' rulings. He must be pretty tough if he's that confident. Must be, if while Superman is busy out there air conditioning young children, he's like Roberto from Futurama.

Can anybody tell me why Rogol would go ask the Circle on a verdict in the first place? Does Rogol have to follow some protocol about Inter-Galactic disputes? Why didn’t Rogol by-pass the Circle and go straight to vengeance?

[jackolover]

No, it's never been a thing before... but it makes perfect sense. It might not even be true, but any criminals would probably say these things to other criminals just to be "safe" - especially if they're trying to hide out, which is what Firefly was trying to do.

I didn't see anything, either, but you could very well be right!





I don't think Krypton exploded all *that* long ago, because Superman would be a lot older than he is, if that's the case. As for Rogol, I think that his problems with Krypton that we've seen so far are likely just the start. He may have a run-in with Zod that's dictated by (or not refused by) the High Council / Council of Elders against him personally that leaves him to set things in motion that destroy Krypton - or at the very least lead him to swear (in front of Jor-El, somehow) that he'll "kill every Kryptonian in existence for this!!" - that kinda thing.

Thanks for the enlightening replies. The business about the complicated Zod and council politics does add a bit of nasty to Rogols attitude.

[JAK]

Can anybody tell me why Rogol would go ask the Circle on a verdict in the first place? Does Rogol have to follow some protocol about Inter-Galactic disputes? Why didn’t Rogol by-pass the Circle and go straight to vengeance?

I'm guessing (because we don't know yet) that he has strong ties to them, and (at least so far) is thinking that they'll do something. By the end of the issue, he knows they won't, and likely thinks that Krypton has corrupted the Circle somehow. This will likely make him take his next step, whatever that is.



And you're very welcome. Happy to help!

[jackolover]

So just to be clear: This isn’t due to the events of Rebirth/Doomsday Clock right. ?

Without a Crisis Reboot, Doomsday Clock just seems like little corner of mixed reality going nowhere. So MOS is probably not going to be tied to Doomsday Clock.

[jackolover]

I'm guessing (because we don't know yet) that he has strong ties to them, and (at least so far) is thinking that they'll do something. By the end of the issue, he knows they won't, and likely thinks that Krypton has corrupted the Circle somehow. This will likely make him take his next step, whatever that is.



And you're very welcome. Happy to help!

Thanks for the clarity here as well. Much appreciated.

[jackolover]

Ok I get the connection now. Bendis may be going that way. But I just had a feeling that he was going to make Zaar actually have a rational reason for his hatred. Not have it be just xenophobic racism/speciesism. I was assuming that Rogol Zaar’s people had felt the brunt of Krypton’s empire kinda like India under the British Empire or how Native Americans where slaughtered when the more Europeans arrived. He’s someone who has seen how powerful and dangerous a Kryptonian could be under a yellow sun. If that’s the case he kind of has a point. A planet full of potential Supermen could be disastrous for any planet standing in their way. It just takes one Zod to enslave a planet. I’m not saying that he’s right to want to kill all Kryptonians but he would be coming from a place of pain rather than just unjustified hatred.

I also see how a defeated race that Rogol comes from could be horrified by Kryptonians spreading an Empire. I think it would be as terrifying as Galactus arriving and setting up his planet sucking machine. Imagine a ship load of Supermen, say 200 or 2000, suddenly unloads in your city flying around doing whatever they like, like a swarm of locusts from “Independance Day” movie. None of them are like Superman of Earth, who had no ethical background about saving people. All the Kryptonian Supermen and women would have no feeling when shots bounce off them. Who knows what Kryptons trade style would be? Zod is my yardstick. A Kryptonian, not Earthified, could be like Doomsday.

[Miles To Go]

I thought it was a fine issue. Loved Clark listening in to the music and performing a feat in putting out the fire, which lent itself to great artwork. Melody was very likeable, we'll see where her crush on Supes goes. Rogal's interactions with The Circle were full of the usual overly long Bendis dialogue but it was superb world building....about the only worry is the situation with the Kents will last a year according to Bendis, but I'm hoping they remain a presence even in small appearances such as this.

[The Dying Detective]

I thought it was a fine issue. Loved Clark listening in to the music and performing a feat in putting out the fire, which lent itself to great artwork. Melody was very likeable, we'll see where her crush on Supes goes. Rogal's interactions with The Circle were full of the usual overly long Bendis dialogue but it was superb world building....about the only worry is the situation with the Kents will last a year according to Bendis, but I'm hoping they remain a presence even in small appearances such as this.

He said this situation would last a year long? That doesn't give him a lot of opportunities to write the new family dynamic he has in mind for the Kents which is actually something I am looking forward to seeing and given how wonky comic book time is a year can mean anything really. The Bendis dialogue didn't bother me as much as it did in Iron Man though.

[Miles To Go]

He said this situation would last a year long? That doesn't give him a lot of opportunities to write the new family dynamic he has in mind for the Kents which is actually something I am looking forward to seeing and given how wonky comic book time is a year can mean anything really

I'm sure Bendis meant a year in real time. We don't know how long he'll be on the books, but from what he's said about giving Lois AND Clark new characters to interact with, he's not going to forget her over the course of that year.

[The Dying Detective]

I'm sure Bendis meant a year in real time. We don't know how long he'll be on the books, but from what he's said about giving Lois AND Clark new characters to interact with, he's not going to forget her over the course of that year.

Yeah I realised that after a while. Well I hope so whatever it is that will befall Lois and Jon I doubt it has anything to do with time travel otherwise the picture on Clark's desk wouldn't exist.

[Johnny Thunders!]

I do! Yeah Azz’s monster was lame but he kind of died. I’m more disappointed Mr. Orr didn’t stick around, he was a real bastard but I wanted to see him get his comeuppance. Snyder’s was I think Wraith and he died stopping an invasion by his own species which I considered a fine ending to his story. Rogal has the small benefit of not being a mere brute so far, so we’ll see how it goes with him.

I really like For Tomorrow, it hits all the big moments a Superman epic should have. But seriously for the life of me, I barely remember the original villains from For Tomorrow or Snyder's Superman mini?!? The Johns run I am talking about is from his short run with New 52 Superman. I can picture him more clearly than Snyder or Azzarello's bad guys.

I think Bendis will have and does have a pretty solid take on Superman/Clark Kent. For me, Bendis has 3 flat out classic books: Ultimate Spiderman, Powers, and his Daredevil run. With Powers, the main character is a Superman type, (well every Superhero in history actually, Powers is great!).

I like the sweep of the issue, there was a big rescue, time at the planet, a mystery, Krypton stuff. It feels like Bendis is jazzed to play in the Superman sand box.

[manofsteel1979]

I may have missed something, but I don't recall Bendis saying specifically that the Lois and Jon stuff would last a year, just that the overall storyline that began in MOS #1 would have ramifications that will be built up over the year.
That may include Lois and Jon and that situation, but so far he's not really said anything concrete other than he loves writing them.