MAN OF STEEL (2018) Event mini-series Discussion thread (SPOILERS)

[JBatmanFan05]

While I'm totally cool with Bendis wanting to avoid Lex and leave him to Scott Snyder in JL, I also hope Bendis eventually does use Lex.

I think Bendis could probably write Lex well. With a seemingly long run ahead, Bendis just has to use Lex I think.

[phonogram12]

While I'm totally cool with Bendis wanting to avoid Lex and leave him to Scott Snyder in JL, I also hope Bendis eventually does use Lex.

I think Bendis could probably write Lex well. With a seemingly long run ahead, Bendis just has to use Lex I think.

I'd be curious to see what his take on Lex would be as well. I mean, which version would we get? TBH, I'm not even sure of his current status quo at the moment.

Lil help? Evil businessman? Straight up supervillain? Somewhere in between or something else altogether?

[The Dying Detective]

I'd be curious to see what his take on Lex would be as well. I mean, which version would we get? TBH, I'm not even sure of his current status quo at the moment.

Lil help? Evil businessman? Straight up supervillain? Somewhere in between or something else altogether?

Luthor's current status is trying to 'help' humanity by getting them to embrace their true nature as very bad people. And to accomplish this he assembles the Legion of Doom consisting of Black Manta, Gorilla Grodd, the Joker, Cheetah, and Sinestro.

[RepHope]

While I'm totally cool with Bendis wanting to avoid Lex and leave him to Scott Snyder in JL, I also hope Bendis eventually does use Lex.

I think Bendis could probably write Lex well. With a seemingly long run ahead, Bendis just has to use Lex I think.

I wouldn’t mind it but I’d prefer it to be at least 2 years from now. I’d rather he keep bringing back old villains that haven’t shown up in forever like Toyman.

[JBatmanFan05]

Lil help? Evil businessman? Straight up supervillain? Somewhere in between or something else altogether?

Dying Detective is correct on his current status quo. Tomasi and Jurgens left the Lex/Supes relationship frosty cold, but Lex not quite clearly a villain again yet, but JL is his clear return to evil.

[Atlas]

So, it's been established in most comic continuities (main DCU) for decades that the Kryptonians were isolationists or had some reason to not become a space-faring race and leave Krypton. This was necessary to establish why Kal-El and Superman are so unique. Supergirl and Zod don't diminish him as they're variations on a theme in essence but long ago developed into their own characters.

Here comes Bendis, who's said in multiple interviews that he had an idea about "what happened to Krypton" and that DiDio responded with "what happened to DiDio?" Either DiDio really is that ignorant of Superman's history (or just refuses to learn about a character he heavily dislikes) but it's clear that continuity doesn't matter to DiDio or Bendis. The argument "well, if the story's good, then continuity isn't that important" is horseshit. This story could have easily been told without making drastic changes to Krypton's history. After all, this story has ALREADY been told by JMS (and in the SA if you want to count Black Zero) and Kryptonians weren't colonizers in either case.

This smacks of Bendis twisting or ignoring continuity to fit his political agenda: this colonizing Krypton will be his commentary on America, and Rogol his commentary on fascism. It's subtle now, but we all know Bendis can't go too long before getting extremely heavy-handed. There are other ways to make statements about these issues (if that's even necessary in a comic book, YMMV) but ignoring continuity and rehashing old stories is pathetic for someone with Bendis' experience. Doesn't seem like DiDio gave a crap, though, and I'm sure he'll continue his "continuity doesn't really matter" stance that he mentioned in interviews during Convergence and DC You. It was Johns who was able to work continuity back into the post-Flashpoint DCU without creating a convoluted mess. DiDis is either unwilling or incapable (probably the latter) of doing the same.

I know many here will argue, "but it doesn't matter if the story's good," the same tired and illogical argument used for whatever happens to Lois and Jon. "It's no big deal if it's undone in a year's time." It is indeed a big deal that we continue to see Superman and his mythology treated as second-rate, easily changed/manipulated at the whim of whatever new writer DiDio brings aboard to "tweak" and "revamp" Superman every few years.

We will continue to see our beloved character mistreated like this as long as we continue to tell DC "hey, it's okay, go ahead and defecate on Superman" by buying whatever they churn out.

[Sacred Knight]

I'm not going to argue that. I'm going to argue that no one cares. This isn't something that HAS to be undone (neither is the Lois and Jon situation, at that. That's a finite storyline with a beginning and an eventual end, its nothing that needs to be undone, just resolved). Because Krypton's history is often changed up, when its not flat out ignored. Let's stop pretending there's some singular vast, detailed, coherent history for it and always has been. Its ALWAYS been subject to alteration, regardless the era.

Equating this slight to Krypton's history as defecating on Superman is high comedy. Everyone who's been a fan long enough to do some amount of research on the history knows how altered Krypton has been throughout the ages, and in far more drastic manners than this.

It was Johns who was able to work continuity back into the post-Flashpoint DCU without creating a convoluted mess.

Wait, what? Its not a convoluted mess? Since when? The current continuity across the board makes no sense. Its been a product of discussion for two years now with some of fandom trying to make sense of it, and others just saying forget trying and just move forward. You greatly exaggerate what Rebirth accomplished in that regard. It plopped the old history back in, in a very loose and general sense. In fact Johns utilized the same thing you're accusing Bendis and Didio of: ignoring continuity. The old history happened but a lot of the differences in the verse make it so that things couldn't have happened in the same way anymore. How is it all explained? Its not. Its ignored. Its just accepted and creators and fans alike move on. Yet for some reason Superman fans will be sheep for accepting this particular alteration? One that actually looks like it will be fleshed out and explored? That's a pretty monumental double-standard you have working.

[Flash Gordon]

I'm not going to argue that. I'm going to argue that no one cares. Because Krypton's history is often changed up, when its not flat out ignored. Let's stop pretending there's some singular vast, detailed, coherent history for it and always has been. Its ALWAYS been subject to alteration, regardless the era.

Equating this slight to Krypton's history as defecating on Superman is high comedy. Everyone who's been a fan long enough to do some amount of research on the history knows how altered Krypton has been throughout the ages, and in far more drastic manners than this.

Exactly.

Honestly it really does boil down to how good the story at hand is. Histories in these kinds of comic books change so often.

Think about just how much Superman has changed over the past 8 years.

[Sacred Knight]

There's always a reason put in to why most failed to survive regardless of the specifics of the culture in a given era (outside the Golden Age where really they just didn't care and didn't elaborate; it wasn't important). I have little reason to doubt thought won't be put into it this time around. Superman's uniqueness at its most base level comes from where and when his rocket landed. That perfect storm of circumstances. As long as that's intact, that's the tie that binds. That does not absolutely demand the isolationist Krypton formula. It was a fine idea. It works. I'm not arguing otherwise, I would have absolutely no issue with that formula continuing. But likewise there is absolutely no reason it has to always be adhered to either. Its not necessarily the only way it always has to be, and indeed wasn't how it always was.

In other words unless Bendis plans to have a second rocket with a second baby land on Earth also to perfectly loving parents who help him grow into a great man? Then there is no problem in regards to Superman's uniqueness in a universe in which he is not technically the sole survivor of his birth planet.

[RepHope]

To be honest I don’t really care one way or the other for the particulars of Krypton. Hell Johns had them as a spacefaring Empire with Lex utilizing an old warship in Up, Up, and Away. I think even New 52 Krypton had a space program that got shut down. There were also hints that Johns was going to have Brainiac be responsible for Krypton’s destruction. All of these I was fine with, and I’m fine now with Bendis linking Krypton’s destruction to Rogal. As long as Bendis doesn’t change the core (Doomed Planet, Desperate Scientists, Last Hope, Kindly Couple, Superman) I really don’t care whether Krypton were spacefaring colonialists or xenophobic isolationists. Both have clear political overtones.

And Bendis isn’t the only one to ignore continuity. Ivy fans freaked the hell out because King had Ivy act less than heroic. Snyder, Williamson, and Tynion had Manchester Black in Task Force XI despite Tomasi leaving his mind in the cow’s body in their final issue. Continuity has never been one hundred percent perfect, and it’s not perfect now. I don’t care as long as the story I’m reading is interesting. I don’t care that Kenan getting his powers makes no sense now that New 52 Superman never died, because I’m more invested in his story than I am about how this contradicts that over in Issue X of whatever.

And I’m not a Bendis fanatic. His final Iron Man And Spider-Man issues for Marvel were godawful. But MoS has been enjoyable for me. Also the one good thing I can say about those issues was Bendis put all the toys back in the toybox for the next writers. If you’re determined to hate his run take comfort in the fact that he’s not one to leave plot threads for others to clean up.

[Kuwagaton]

I'm not going to argue that. I'm going to argue that no one cares.

Pretty much. Turns out people just like getting new stuff.

My only hope is that Krypton feels like a culture instead of regular people in knock-off Superman costumes.

Oh, and that Lois comes back to gather up that Trish. Like a big sister who's run out of patience.

[manofsteel1979]

As far as i'm concerned the ship sailed a long time ago on a completely simple straightforward and non convoluted continuity for Superman. The last time we had anything resembling that was 15 years ago just prior to Birthright. At this point the only options are to start from scratch with a reboot, which I think very few of us want, or just handwave certain things and keep things a bit loose and move on. Rebirth did that to an extent and Bendis is just continuing it.

As for being upset that Bendis is somehow ruining or mistreating Lois and Jon...we just have to see where Bendis goes with it. Just because there's a mystery surrounding them doesn't mean anything beyond the fact theres a mystery there. Let's not jump to conclusions.

[Myskin]

Let's not jump to conclusions.

I'll speak for myself and I'll jump to conclusions: I am pretty sure that Bendis won't write anything disrespectful or unfair regarding Lois or Jon.
Bendis is not Chuck Austen or a newbie who thinks he's the new Alan Moore. He is one of the most competent writer in the US and in the span of a couple of decades he almost singlehandedly recreated Marvel from scratch. Everything he has done since he came to DC has been perfect from a PR point of view. Even if he wrote something which doesn't work that well (personally speaking I didn't even like Bendis when he wrote Daredevil or USM, but it was a long time ago and I had enough time to change my tastes), he would always be 100% professional in his attitude and approach.The mere idea that he would ruin Lois Lane for shock value is bogus as far as I am concerned.

[Robanker]

I'll speak for myself and I'll jump to conclusions: I am pretty sure that Bendis won't write anything disrespectful or unfair regarding Lois or Jon.
Bendis is not Chuck Austen or a newbie who thinks he's the new Alan Moore. He is one of the most competent writer in the US and in the span of a couple of decades he almost singlehandedly recreated Marvel from scratch. Everything he has done since he came to DC has been perfect from a PR point of view. Even if he wrote something which doesn't work that well (personally speaking I didn't even like Bendis when he wrote Daredevil or USM, but it was a long time ago and I had enough time to change my tastes), he would always be 100% professional in his attitude and approach.The mere idea that he would ruin Lois Lane for shock value is bogus as far as I am concerned.

For what it's worth, he's sang nothing but praise for the Rebirth work with Superman and has a lot of enthusiasm for the Superman line, so if he does do anything to the marriage, it's not to be edgy but because he genuinely believes he has a big, wonderful story to tell. I love the marriage, so I don't want it going anywhere, but I don't get a malicious vibe at all from Bendis and so far both issues of Man of Steel have been a good indication that he hopes to leave his mark on Superman through a quality run as opposed to being the guy who broke up Lois and Clark.

Granted, it's still very early, but he hasn't lost any of the energy from when his run was announced and that's impressive in an age where you get assblasted 24/7 on social media.

Of course, if after a few arcs in Superman/Action they're still not together I'll start to feel a bit sore.

[TheCape]

As far as i'm concerned the ship sailed a long time ago on a completely simple straightforward and non convoluted continuity for Superman. The last time we had anything resembling that was 15 years ago just prior to Birthright. At this point the only options are to start from scratch with a reboot, which I think very few of us want, or just handwave certain things and keep things a bit loose and move on. Rebirth did that to an extent and Bendis is just continuing it.

As for being upset that Bendis is somehow ruining or mistreating Lois and Jon...we just have to see where Bendis goes with it. Just because there's a mystery surrounding them doesn't mean anything beyond the fact theres a mystery there. Let's not jump to conclusions.

This is why i think that whatever Bendis do with Superman won't be a bad thing, he has a tendency to ignore continuity to fit his story or alter charactherization too heavily, but this franchise lost that many years ago, so i'm not that worried for whatever he might do here.