MAN OF STEEL (2018) Event mini-series Discussion thread (SPOILERS)

[Kuwagaton]

I mean it was still their work to stand behind just the same, but I just know some things would have been different at once a month. I liked Jurgens but I think his old monthly work was much better, like legenedary as opposed to solid.

I have no problem with Lois and Clark occasionally facing challenges in their family and marriage. From observing my parents nearly 50 year marriage before my fathers passing 4 years ago, no marriage. ( or family)worth its salt is going to be without bumps and rough patches. It's seldom the wholesome idealistic Norman Rockwell painting come to life.

The issue in the past when the powers that be have done the " Uh Oh! Lois and Clark are having issues!" plotlines is that usually it was over the silliest reasons that realistically wouldn't or shouldn't cause strife given their histories prior or the creators go out of their way to make Lois look bad just to create drama and subtly( or not so subtly)push their personal disdain for the marriage within the story told and telegraph to the audience " see? Superman and Lois married is a bad idea. You should totally let us erase it!"

In that vein I understand people getting worried when any writer, especially a new one talks about adding drama to the mix with the Kents and putting them in challenging situations, because things that were done prior, like Lois acting cold to Clark for no logical reason or have he portrayed as an outright selfish person, Clark moping and acting ineffectual and teasing infidelity with exes and the like come to mind. ( looking at you Chuck Austins Lana Lang tries to sleep with a married Clark plotline).

One may argue that Superman is the ideal and thus should have an idealistic marriage and family life Where nothing really goes wrong and everything is pancake mornings and homespun wisdom where Kal knows best, but frankly ,while it was nice to see for two years of double shipping comics, every so often you do have to shake things up a little to make the good times even more precious. Otherwise you run the risk of making the idea of Lois and Clark: Doting parents boring and stagnant, which is the worst sin a comic book can commit, and then you are more likely to see Jon and the concept of a marriage and family for Clark to go away entirely. You have to keep it fresh for it to last.

I must say that while I loved the idea of Rebirth and the family and such and was fully on board the first year, it was clear that the teams ( particularly Tomasi) was starting to run out of steam. There had to be a change eventually and while I'm not 100 percent sure giving Bendis total control was the right decision, so far he is doing and saying the right thing with all of this. In spite of a few odd things, MOS was a breath of fresh air I really didn't realize that Superman needed until I got it, and I'm looking forward to the next few months.

I'd hope you know that absolutely I'm not leveling this at you, but much of what you say evokes the criticisms of Rebirth. Did I miss some crazy sci-fi Rockwell though? Because like Bendis they took some pretty wacky chances on turning the family inside out. From being almost burned to death by Intergang and in turn boiling with convicted feelings from accidentally vaporizing the cat with latent powers. Issue after issue setting up a grand plot about poisoning Jon with tainted alien cow milk and chopping off Lois' foot. And trips through how many realities. With honestly some of the more wholesome stories like Superman 7 and 39, and Lois returning to work being the most praised.

[manofsteel1979]

I mean it was still their work to stand behind just the same, but I just know some things would have been different at once a month. I liked Jurgens but I think his old monthly work was much better, like legenedary as opposed to solid.



I'd hope you know that absolutely I'm not leveling this at you, but much of what you say evokes the criticisms of Rebirth. Did I miss some crazy sci-fi Rockwell though? Because like Bendis they took some pretty wacky chances on turning the family inside out. From being almost burned to death by Intergang and in turn boiling with convicted feelings from accidentally vaporizing the cat with latent powers. Issue after issue setting up a grand plot about poisoning Jon with tainted alien cow milk and chopping off Lois' foot. And trips through how many realities. With honestly some of the more wholesome stories like Superman 7 and 39, and Lois returning to work being the most praised.

But to be fair most of the stuff you mentioned was during the first year, year and a half. Whether it was the grueling schedule of double shipping or something else, the last fee months of Tomasi's run was starting to bore me. Although the Bizarro issues and the last issue was pretty good. Meanwhile i actually think Jurgens improved as time went. Post merger Jurgens ACTION got better.

I think though I'm glad we got the last two years of Superman. Four years worth of decent stories there. However i do think the time was approaching where a change was needed. Even the triangle era teams started to slowly lose steam after the Fall of Metropolis. I think we could have gotten another solid year of double shipping with Tomasi and Jurgens but I'm glad they left with gas in the tank and didn't completely run out of gas.

[Sacred Knight]

It was the double monthly release schedule that most likely impacted on the mid point of Tomasi and Gleason's run. I've seen a post online, maybe on here or Reddit or wherever where someone said they talked to Tomasi/Gleason and they said the bi-monthly schedule was exhausting. That would explain why there were more filler arcs and Imperius Lex + Super Sons of Tomorrow were fairly average compared with the rest of their run. If they were given Bendis' monthly schedule, I'm almost sure we would have gotten more hits than misses. Bizarroverse and the final issue were hitting the creative team's stride again as well so they still had good stories left in them.

I'm sure it was exhausting. But my problems with the run was more than just filler arcs. That was a major problem yes, but an even bigger problem was what became a trend of incredibly underwhelming endings to arcs. Black Dawn set a precedent of supposedly setting up some big stakes only to have it go out with a whimper. And I still think, while Action was readable, that Jurgens was mostly just putting a new coat of paint on storylines I read in the 90s.

I'm definitely with ManofSteel that both runs were running out of steam. And I realize I was HUGELY biased in the beginning. I completely own that. But Superman's quality in the beginning won me over and I felt that Action improved after Reborn (again, readable, but not really fresh in my mind). So I was a pretty decent time removed from my stubbornness by the time I started having these feelings. This was far from just "over a year later and I'm still whining that its not New 52 Superman anymore". Of course, I doubt just my word will convince some of that, but in the end I can't help that if I'm not believed.

[Kuwagaton]

I think the underwhelming, rushed stuff started with Multiplicity just not finishing as well as it started. And after that anything longer than two issues kinda losing focus in addition to switching up creators randomly. It felt to me like they couldn't get far enough ahead for the sake of quality.

We haven't even started on Bendis yet technically, but he's going at half the pace with what seems like way more planning time under his belt so that he's not doing random stories and hopefully he won't have to get fill-in writers at critical moments like Rob Williams before Oz Effect. But a huge thing I've been mulling over is the number of creator owned projects he'll be working on at the same time...

But to be fair most of the stuff you mentioned was during the first year, year and a half. Whether it was the grueling schedule of double shipping or something else, the last fee months of Tomasi's run was starting to bore me. Although the Bizarro issues and the last issue was pretty good. Meanwhile i actually think Jurgens improved as time went. Post merger Jurgens ACTION got better.

I think though I'm glad we got the last two years of Superman. Four years worth of decent stories there. However i do think the time was approaching where a change was needed. Even the triangle era teams started to slowly lose steam after the Fall of Metropolis. I think we could have gotten another solid year of double shipping with Tomasi and Jurgens but I'm glad they left with gas in the tank and didn't completely run out of gas.

Well, I did think a number of things had improved after Fall of Metropolis. But I can easily believe some people felt a bit "over it" and the same for the second Rebirth year. Considerably worse to me because they didn't start from a good status quo. I guess I mentioned earlier stories unconsciously because while I was grateful for so many Superman comics, I'd been waiting for something like we have now. Maybe with two hotshot writers working together instead of one but still.

[Ascended]

I'd hope you know that absolutely I'm not leveling this at you, but much of what you say evokes the criticisms of Rebirth. Did I miss some crazy sci-fi Rockwell though? Because like Bendis they took some pretty wacky chances on turning the family inside out. From being almost burned to death by Intergang and in turn boiling with convicted feelings from accidentally vaporizing the cat with latent powers. Issue after issue setting up a grand plot about poisoning Jon with tainted alien cow milk and chopping off Lois' foot. And trips through how many realities. With honestly some of the more wholesome stories like Superman 7 and 39, and Lois returning to work being the most praised.

I can't speak for everyone, and I'm just stepping into this conversation, but.....

The things you mention are mostly outside factors. Other than a few notable exceptions (like Jon setting the cat on fire) most of the stuff that happened to the Kents happened because of forces beyond their household. There was, for all intent and purpose, very little internal struggle within the family.

Now, Clark and Lois are exceptional people; they're smart, clever, confident in themselves and each other, and accustomed to the weirdest things imaginable being thrown at them. They're not going to have stupid, mundane struggles where they suspect each other of cheating or something (and the stories where they do have such foolish problems are among my most hated Super-tales). But they're still going to have problems. And we didn't see a ton of that. Most of what we saw were aliens screwing up family night. Even many of the problems we saw within the family felt like they were just there to show how amazing the family is. Jon lit the cat on fire? Well, he feels appropriately bad about it and when he finally works up the courage to admit what he did his parents are understanding and cool, and already knew anyway. They were just waiting for Jon to be ready. How utterly perfect a parental response is that? I have probably never had such a perfect handle on parenting in my ten years as a father. The (internal) issues we saw within the Kent house often felt like they were just there so the family would have some (relatively) minor obstacle of overcome together, thus proving their perfection as a unit.

I think that a big part of the disconnect here (for me anyway) is that we didn't get to see Clark and Lois grow into these new roles, and we didn't get to see Jon be raised. By the time we're introduced to the concept, Jon is well on his way to growing up and his parents have had a decade's worth of practice to figure things out. I never saw either of these characters as being naturally inclined towards parenthood. They're wonderful people of course but Lois is a hard chasing, hard working juggernaut of a woman and Clark has rarely handled any family situation very well. I never imagined them as being incredible, flawless parents, and here they are living a relatively Rockwell-ian life. They got ten years to change and grow, but as a reader I didn't.

All that said, I'll take the Rockwell painting over crap like Lois leaving Clark because he didn't save her father (and refusing the go home even when Clark was dying in a hospital surrounded by villains) or Clark struggling with the temptation to sleep with Lori Lemaris.

[Sacred Knight]

Yeah, I'm in the middle. The Rockwellian life, as you put it, bores me to tears. But there's another extreme spectrum to that of which I also cannot stand. I don't need Lois being written as just an awful person and Clark being written as considering infidelity while also being a complete pushover. Extreme doldrums works no more than extreme happiness. I mean, if you absolutely force me to pick sure I'll take the latter first. But I'd rather not have to pick. That's one aspect of which I was so impressed with MOS. The definitive panels in my mind to show how Bendis gets this right is in #2 when Superman is doing his job, not moping at all, joking around some, trying to pep talk Winslow, being friendly with Hal, then he takes one moment, just a moment, to lash out and express his negative emotions of sadness and loneliness. Just a moment. That's all I've ever wanted from "Superman is sad" stories. To show that he still does his thing despite it, that he tries his damnedest to rise above. That propels a storyline like this completely away from the sadsack, mopey Superman tropes we were getting in years past.

[manofsteel1979]

I can't speak for everyone, and I'm just stepping into this conversation, but.....

The things you mention are mostly outside factors. Other than a few notable exceptions (like Jon setting the cat on fire) most of the stuff that happened to the Kents happened because of forces beyond their household. There was, for all intent and purpose, very little internal struggle within the family.

Now, Clark and Lois are exceptional people; they're smart, clever, confident in themselves and each other, and accustomed to the weirdest things imaginable being thrown at them. They're not going to have stupid, mundane struggles where they suspect each other of cheating or something (and the stories where they do have such foolish problems are among my most hated Super-tales). But they're still going to have problems. And we didn't see a ton of that. Most of what we saw were aliens screwing up family night. Even many of the problems we saw within the family felt like they were just there to show how amazing the family is. Jon lit the cat on fire? Well, he feels appropriately bad about it and when he finally works up the courage to admit what he did his parents are understanding and cool, and already knew anyway. They were just waiting for Jon to be ready. How utterly perfect a parental response is that? I have probably never had such a perfect handle on parenting in my ten years as a father. The (internal) issues we saw within the Kent house often felt like they were just there so the family would have some (relatively) minor obstacle of overcome together, thus proving their perfection as a unit.

I think that a big part of the disconnect here (for me anyway) is that we didn't get to see Clark and Lois grow into these new roles, and we didn't get to see Jon be raised. By the time we're introduced to the concept, Jon is well on his way to growing up and his parents have had a decade's worth of practice to figure things out. I never saw either of these characters as being naturally inclined towards parenthood. They're wonderful people of course but Lois is a hard chasing, hard working juggernaut of a woman and Clark has rarely handled any family situation very well. I never imagined them as being incredible, flawless parents, and here they are living a relatively Rockwell-ian life. They got ten years to change and grow, but as a reader I didn't.

All that said, I'll take the Rockwell painting over crap like Lois leaving Clark because he didn't save her father (and refusing the go home even when Clark was dying in a hospital surrounded by villains) or Clark struggling with the temptation to sleep with Lori Lemaris.

Agreed. 100 percent. There is a balance that needs to be struck between saccarine Norman Rockwellian platitudes and contrived soap opera drama. For the longest time from around the early 2000s through the duration of The New 52 we had a lot of soap opera contrivances in both the Super marriage and even during all of the Superwonder era. Then , probably as a counterbalance the pendulum swung hard the other way to wholesome all american mom and apple pie awesome family and while it was refreshing and enjoyable for a while , it runs the risk of becoming repetitive and one note.

I honestly think as long as they keep the balance Bendis seems to be working with so far we will be ok. Not everything needs to be a constant struggle where heroes can't be happy, but you have to at least occasionally put our protagonists in jeopardy on some level or things will become bland, and while bland can be comforting and safe and reliable, it ain't all that exciting.

[Kuwagaton]

I can't speak for everyone, and I'm just stepping into this conversation, but.....

The things you mention are mostly outside factors. Other than a few notable exceptions (like Jon setting the cat on fire) most of the stuff that happened to the Kents happened because of forces beyond their household. There was, for all intent and purpose, very little internal struggle within the family.

Internal conflict leads to external and vice versa. But for something closer to purely internal, there was the death stare Clark got from Lois when she found out about his detainment center of solitude. Mayb that went away with a pretty flimsy argument, but so did crazy eye Jor-el taking Lois and Jon into space, evidently. It's not just these boards where I've seen complaints about the trajectory of this run, and we're only just beginning.

But thanks for answering my honest question. I didn't know that what people would like is internal. Bendis is happy to give that... but once he gives that, won't people start complaining? When you actually use a character and put them through the wringer and show them be vulnerable, don't people get mad about how "pathetic" the characters look and things like that? You could say balance, but balance is preference. There are things I'm enjoying right now that some people don't think is right at all about the status quo leading into the titles. Maybe it seems like Bendis is writing out Lois and Jon, and might even tease other women. I don't really think so, but who can say? He understands breaking eggs to make omelettes, even if some people think it's cheap drama.

I think that a big part of the disconnect here (for me anyway) is that we didn't get to see Clark and Lois grow into these new roles, and we didn't get to see Jon be raised. By the time we're introduced to the concept, Jon is well on his way to growing up and his parents have had a decade's worth of practice to figure things out. I never saw either of these characters as being naturally inclined towards parenthood. They're wonderful people of course but Lois is a hard chasing, hard working juggernaut of a woman and Clark has rarely handled any family situation very well. I never imagined them as being incredible, flawless parents, and here they are living a relatively Rockwell-ian life. They got ten years to change and grow, but as a reader I didn't.

The original Superman comics spent like a page to tell us he is strong (because bugs are too) and uses a disguise to get the lowdown on action, and proceeded right to adventure. Jon got a ten issue spread from the womb to first levitation. I dunno if it helps, where Lois and Clark are concerned, to just consider them different versions if it seems like too big a stretch to go from Cornell to Rebirth.

All that said, I'll take the Rockwell painting over crap like Lois leaving Clark because he didn't save her father (and refusing the go home even when Clark was dying in a hospital surrounded by villains) or Clark struggling with the temptation to sleep with Lori Lemaris.

Yeah, I'm in the middle. The Rockwellian life, as you put it, bores me to tears. But there's another extreme spectrum to that of which I also cannot stand. I don't need Lois being written as just an awful person and Clark being written as considering infidelity while also being a complete pushover. Extreme doldrums works no more than extreme happiness. I mean, if you absolutely force me to pick sure I'll take the latter first. But I'd rather not have to pick. That's one aspect of which I was so impressed with MOS. The definitive panels in my mind to show how Bendis gets this right is in #2 when Superman is doing his job, not moping at all, joking around some, trying to pep talk Winslow, being friendly with Hal, then he takes one moment, just a moment, to lash out and express his negative emotions of sadness and loneliness. Just a moment. That's all I've ever wanted from "Superman is sad" stories. To show that he still does his thing despite it, that he tries his damnedest to rise above. That propels a storyline like this completely away from the sadsack, mopey Superman tropes we were getting in years past.

Agreed. 100 percent. There is a balance that needs to be struck between saccarine Norman Rockwellian platitudes and contrived soap opera drama. For the longest time from around the early 2000s through the duration of The New 52 we had a lot of soap opera contrivances in both the Super marriage and even during all of the Superwonder era. Then , probably as a counterbalance the pendulum swung hard the other way to wholesome all american mom and apple pie awesome family and while it was refreshing and enjoyable for a while , it runs the risk of becoming repetitive and one note.

I honestly think as long as they keep the balance Bendis seems to be working with so far we will be ok. Not everything needs to be a constant struggle where heroes can't be happy, but you have to at least occasionally put our protagonists in jeopardy on some level or things will become bland, and while bland can be comforting and safe and reliable, it ain't all that exciting.

"Dad, what is that?" Superman is pretty sad though. But people who do that usually remember at some point that he is Superman. Maybe his Win is kinda moldy and sucks (his encounters here with Zaar were pretty unproductive), but he got it for today and can probably do better tomorrow.

I think it's full circle because I deeply disagree with those assessments of Lori's return, Lois vs Lana 2000s edition, and the way the rift post-OWAW was handled. If I threw that stuff in the "cheap drama" bin, I'd throw in selling the DP again and... Lois and Jon being "lost" to him because he got talked into having them go off with Jor-el.

[Ascended]

But thanks for answering my honest question.

Always happy to share my deep and unquestionable wisdom.

(that's a joke, for those of you who don't understand sarcasm or humor)

I didn't know that what people would like is internal. Bendis is happy to give that... but once he gives that, won't people start complaining?

People will complain no matter what. All I ask is that Bendis stay true to the core of the characters and their world. If he does that, I'll be satisfied.

The original Superman comics spent like a page to tell us he is strong (because bugs are too) and uses a disguise to get the lowdown on action, and proceeded right to adventure. Jon got a ten issue spread from the womb to first levitation. I dunno if it helps, where Lois and Clark are concerned, to just consider them different versions if it seems like too big a stretch to go from Cornell to Rebirth.

Well, I do consider Rebirth Clark and Lois to be completely new versions and not a continuation of post-Crisis. But the Superman character as a whole, beyond things like continuity, is not someone I ever thought would be comfortable in the role of father. It's just not usually how he's been written through his history. Sure, there are exceptions where we see him as a great dad but most of the time, especially within canon (whatever canon happens to be at the moment)? He's very uncomfortable with family. So adjusting to Superdad has been a struggle. I don't want to see the family undone, but I wouldn't argue with a little more struggle from Clark and Lois either.

"Dad, what is that?" Superman is pretty sad though. But people who do that usually remember at some point that he is Superman. Maybe his Win is kinda moldy and sucks (his encounters here with Zaar were pretty unproductive), but he got it for today and can probably do better tomorrow.

Oh, Clark will be fine and it'll all turn out right in the end. We all know that. I like it when my heroes lose a fight or get a Win that's not a complete victory.

I think it's full circle because I deeply disagree with those assessments of Lori's return, Lois vs Lana 2000s edition, and the way the rift post-OWAW was handled. If I threw that stuff in the "cheap drama" bin, I'd throw in selling the DP again and... Lois and Jon being "lost" to him because he got talked into having them go off with Jor-el.

I would absolutely throw the idea of the Planet being sold *again* in the "cheap drama" bin. Not that it belongs there conceptually, but it's been done so often, and done to such underwhelming effect every time, that it's lost all real impact. But the Kents' having their jobs put into question is a perfectly valid source of potential drama and stories. DC just hasn't done a very good job of using it right.

Lois and Jon taking off with Jor-El? I'd say its too early to tell if this will be cheap drama or not. Conceptually I see nothing wrong here; Clark wasn't much older than Jon is when Clark first went to the future with a bunch of unsupervised teens. But we'll see how Bendis uses this and what comes of it. Obviously Jor-El has ulterior motives and Lois is going to catch wind of that very quickly. It's going to get ugly pretty quick, I suspect, with Jon trapped in the middle. But whether Bendis actually cooks a full, healthy meal out of that or just ends up with some cheap, empty calories......time will tell on that one.

[Shockingjustice]

Now would be the perfect time for Jon to get a mini with Ben 10/kingdom hearts like adventures.

[Slim Shady]

Just finished the series. I was hoping this would be good enough to add some Supes to my reading list and it was. I really enjoyed it. Bendis really nailed Superman’s voice. Which is probably always the biggest concern with a new writer. I’d say I was surprised at how well he got it. I was impressed. This is the first thing of Bendis I’ve read and was a little worried, but he’s pretty good. I liked alsmot all his characterizations, I thought he did a good job with Kara too. It was a good enough story with some mystery to go along. Zaar was a little generic at first, but I’ll take a villain that can challenge Superman. I was a little lost on what’s up with Jor-el, but I liked the twist with him. Sets up some future stories. If I had any complaint I’d say maybe the pacing of certain things was a tad off but nothing too bad. All in all I’d say it was a fun read and I’m gonna give Superman and Action a shot now.

Oh and the art, the whole series looked great. Top shelf stuff throughout.

[Superlad93]

I don't mean no harm, but can we talk about something? Can we talk about the prevalent complaint that Lois and Clark are written out of character because they decide to go along with what Jon wanted in MOS?

So, like, the issues a lot of people seem to have are as follows: 1) Lois and Clark are cool with having their son interact with someone who used to basically be an enemy 2) Lois and Clark are nuts for even entertaining the idea of their son going across the galaxy of all places with said used-to-be-evil dude. And 3) Jon's 10 he doesn't make the rules.

And I'd honestly be with everyone who cites these complaints if this wasn't the super heightened reality of the Superman world. Some may disagree, and still say it's even too extreme for that kind of world, and maybe that'd be true.......if I hadn't just spent two years reading Tomasi, Gleason, and Jurgens write this family. That may ring super false for some--and may in fact be the reason why they think it's mischaracterization, but I wanna just bring up a few things.

So in the interest of fairness, lets put the last two years of Lois and Clark bringing up Jon under the same microscope as MOS. So, for one, Lois and Clark are cool with Jon being best friends with and going on adventures with a 13 year old born killer. Yes, Damian is reformed, but even after that reformation he still killed Nobody's dad (doesn't help that he just killed Black Mask apparently). But more relevant to Jon, he goes by the motto of "better to ask forgiveness than permission." This mainly being in relation to sneaking out, and probably the most famous instance of Damian sneaking out was, well, when he got himself implied with a sword and died. But again, in relation to Jon, the first time Jon and Damian went on a solo adventure, Damian sneaks Jon out, and.....the promptly see a bunch of dead bodies and fight a murderer. Jon's 10, and when Lois found out that he did sneak out, he wasn't forbidden from ever putting on a cape again or seeing Damian. I think he was just grounded for a bit, if that. And to make matter worse, Damian had Jon actively hide the facts of their adventures from his parents. That means he's not talking about seeing a dead family with anyone but the person who is quite used to it.

Then there's the whole fact that Clark straight up took his kid into space to save a planet full of people, but ended up having to let him watch a whole race of people basically commit mass suicide. He's 10, and so far he's seen a dead family, and a whole dead race front row.

And what about Kathy and all the aliens of Hamilton that used to work for and believe in Manchester Black of their own free will? Like, no one remembers how Kathy made a child (Damian) internally bleed, and now she's allowed to be alone with Jon? What about how she and the others of Hamilton were party to the actual drugging, brain washing, and mental torture of Jon? Clark has a speech about earning back trust and all with the Hamilton squad, but he still lets his kid go back there mostly unsupervised shortly after. The only bit of supervision is Lois having Nobody keep tabs on him and text her. But that's all dependent on if Lois' phone is on, Nobody has the time, and Jon and Kathy aren't off in another universe. That's also a thing Jon does super regularly: goes to other universes for missions or just for fun, and the last time he went he literally made it so something dangerous followed him back, Boyzarro. And one time when Jon was mad at his parents for moving he literally jumped to another city (Gotham). He's not even old enough to drive anywhere in America, why is this cool?

For that matter, why would any set of responsible parents let their 10 year old son continue to be an underage superhero after all the logical psychological damage and very, very real risk of death associated with it (remember how his best friend already died at his age)? To make matters worse, Superman in this continuity is so acutely aware of these the psychological effects that he saw fit to co found Sanctuary, and he's very well aware of the risk of death and how indiscriminate it is even to someone like him. Letting Jon continue to be a superhero is inherently irresponsible of both Lois and Clark as parents. They're flat out irresponsible.

.......but, they're actually not, are they? The world is heightened, and the rules for the family and the world don't mirror our own 1 to 1. That's why it's not a big deal that Jon's best friend is a reformed once-dead killer, and his possible crush is a young lady that helped facilitate his capture, torture, drugging, and brain washing. That's why it's not that big of a deal that Jon passes the time by going to other dimensions or casually going to other states or cities to blow off steam.

So framed in that context, Lois saying that Jon's not going to space with his once-evil grandpa without parental guidance is down right sensible. There's also the fact that Clark would've had a way of staying in contact with them all the time, and likely using the Fortress tech with the communicator could've gotten their signal whenever and wherever. Lois even says "you can come pick us up." And keeping the communicator in the Fortress was just about the safest place on Earth. That place has proven it can keep Superman himself out. He had no way of knowing that something that much stronger than him would come down and wreck everything.

A lot of the safety net associated with Lois and Clark being cool with Jon being a hero and going to other Earths is the idea that Clark can get to his location with his considerable power, connections, and tech. And Lois flat out banks on that same sort of safety net in MOS too, right? She verbalizes it even. It just so happens that life, even Superman's, can be a bit of a b!tch, right?

Apologies for the length. Thoughts?

[JasonTodd428]

My only thought is that I love your post and I agree with all that you said here. Seriously I've seen absolutely nothing in MoS that contradicts anyone's Rebirth characterizations. To me it's merely felt like a continuation of the work Tomasi and Jurgens started. They both laid th framework here and now Bendis is building upon it. I've no complaints with that. There's a bit of clunkiness here and there but I enjoyed the mini a lot in spite of that.

[Sacred Knight]

Totally agreed, and I've gone on record myself a bunch of times saying the same things, albeit using a few different examples (just goes to show that there are a lot of examples to choose from). Based on the very creators who wrote him the most since his creation, this is very within character for Jon and his parents. At least, if one doesn't like the way things went down in MOS, I'd wonder why they were ever okay with the things that went down in Rebirth. And hey maybe some aren't. For those who don't feel the context in either era, fair enough. That's consistent. I've just seen more examples of people absolutely in love with Rebirth but having a problem with this instance. Which I feel very much is not consistent.

[Superlad93]

In the interest of adding something positive to the conversation: Bendis and Fabok just confirmed that this image was a homage