[SPOILER WARNING] Amazing Spider-Man #800 Thoughts

[blackspidey2099]

Since this is such a huge event issue, I thought it deserves its own thread for discussion...

[MindofShadow]

This is about as bitter as i've been about a character death in a long time.

So bitter I'm not even gonna read current Venom book anymore until its on marvel unlimited.

#flashdeservedbetter

[xpyred]

All i am saying is spoilers:

Flash may be in that coffin, but he is definitely going to have a very similar resurrection to Peter's during Kraven's Last Hunt. Once Peter sent the venom symbiote away, there is absolutely no way the symbiote did not return to Flash's body before going back to Brock. I am betting that flash will be back before the end of the year because the symbiote visited him and kick started the anti-venom in him.

end of spoilers

[blackspidey2099]

My opinions:

I liked the atmosphere of this issue, and most of the art. But I thought the plot was a huge letdown, completely underwhelming and an unnecessary tragedy just for shock value.

spoilers:

The entire plot relied on a bunch of deus ex machinas (Eddie showing up for two pages, Flash figuring Peter's identity, Doc Ock showing up out of nowhere, etc.) and it completely wasted all the cool moments from the previous issues where Peter was like: "You may have taken the Spider out, but it's the man who is most dangerous." I was so hyped to see Peter get the win through his own skills and intelligence but instead it's basically the symbiote and Flash who end up being MVP while Peter is lucky to get them on his side. And I'm a huge fan of Flash, and yet that still seemed stupid to me. And let's not even get started on how bad and unnecessary Flash's death was - he got killed so easily and quickly, even though symbiotes have really great healing factors (I remember Venom healing Flash's head after it got blown off). I'm especially pissed at how Flash has been tested recently, getting kicked out of his own symbiote due to BS 90's nostalgia, and now getting killed for cheap shock value. Basically the entire Agent Anti-Venom plot ended up being a deus ex machina for this issue that will now never be explored or developed. If I wasn't pissed enough at Slott undoing everything good he did with the characters in his run in the Fall of Parker story, he now removed the absolute best thing (imo) from his run - Flash becoming a hero. The whole Harry's mom plot was completely out of nowhere last issue and hardly even addressed, which was completely lame as well. I don't see what was the point of introducing her as a plot point if nothing was done with it. Even the Deus Ex Machina didn't make sense - the symbiote never increased Peter's strength, and definitely not to Red Goblin levels. Maybe if it had been the Toxin symbiote it could have made sense. I also didn't like the design of the black suit (I'm not the only one who thought the weird floaty eyes didn't look good, am I?) though the other art was good for the most part. I'm not sure what to make of Osborn's ending - I liked Peter saving him but I thought the reasoning behind Osborn removing the Carnage symbiote was a bit shaky. The end with Osborn thinking he is Casady and Spidey is Osborn was a bit confusing - it's okay if Osborn was just pretending but if he actually forgot Peter's identity already then it's a complete waste IMO. The only plot point I liked was Ock becoming an anti-hero and working at Horizon (though it makes me pissed that Ock gets a good job but the much more intelligent Peter somehow can't get a job at the university he founded and instead needs a shitty job at the Bugle which doesn't even pay him enough to be able to make rent...) since at least Ock didn't completely regress to his pre-Slott status. Overall super underwhelming and didn't live up to anything that was teased in previous issues IMO.

end of spoilers

[Jman27]

I thought it was fine issue
spoilers:

flash dying was predicted so I didn't feel anything really, Norman losing his ego at the end not sure how long that will last honestly. But one thing I will say is that everyone contributed in the fight against the RED Goblin can't call anyone a damsel in distress. Peter back in black is always nice although they did redesign it to through the causal reader off and he really didn't need it except to swing around . Doc Ock being here was eh like he really can't leave Maria alone. I really don't understand Slott obsession with him. Spiderman using Norman ego against him makes sense. Normie retaining a little of carnage hopefully that will get address. But overall it's was a good issue for Spiderman.

end of spoilers

[SuperiorIronman]

spoilers:

I'm just left wondering what Peter meant at the end of the fight. Sure I got a somewhat abridged version of it (I will be getting my copy in about a day or two to have a proper read), but something seems off to me. Granted I have a number of scans that spoiled things for me but for now I'm just confused. What Peter says makes no F****** sense. Norman Osborn is persona non grata, a serial killer and international terrorist. I don't think anybody is actually going to care should Peter have done it or Jameson pulled the trigger. So we lost Flash but kept Norman Osborn because? I have no idea, because this didn't amount to anything. Peter didn't say anything profound or inspiring. He regurgitated the same crap I read in a 90's ASM book about power and responsibility. ITS NOT THAT. It's not "Because I could. That I meant I had to. Because with Great power there must come great responsibility. To everyone. Even the worst of us.". That means nothing. Because at the end of the day Jameson can just as easily apply that to killing Osborn. Jameson can kill Osborn because he's in the position to do so. Norman Osborn is an international terrorist, bomber, wanted fugitive, kidnapper, serial killer, mass murderer, traitor to his country, extortionist, large scale drug-trafficker and enforcer of its use on unwilling participants, and for Peter has killed at least 3 of his loved ones. Norman has been in control of his actions. Regardless of him being crazy or not, Peter has let him go for somewhere around an in-universe decade and at this point had no reason to let him live. Peter is complicit in every horrible thing Osborn does, and him not getting with the program already and not even having a justifiable reason is laughable at this point. You know it wont change anything, Osborn will just get out again and kill more more people. Peter accomplished nothing because we've been through this song and dance already. Peter having second thoughts after Gwen makes sense because it was the first time and he wouldn't know how much Osborn is there. But going on a decade and Peter not doing it or letting it happen is ludicrous. If Osborn gets the death penalty would Peter break him out of prison? Seriously, enough with this already.

end of spoilers

[DragonPiece]

So did MJ do anything important this issue? I remember Celebuski saying she'd be getting some big developments or something like that as we transitioned into Spencer's run.

[Denirac]

I called an appearance from Kassady months ago when the Story was announced- Glad to see that I was right to an Extent with his cameo and that ending

[xpyred]

spoilers:

If Osborn gets the death penalty would Peter break him out of prison? Seriously, enough with this already.

end of spoilers

Peter already broke Osborn out of prison back in 2005 during Millar's Marvel Knights run. So it's always possible lol. But i think Peter would come to terms with Osborn dying if it was state sanctioned mainly because it would have been done by the book and by the authorities.

[Ana]

spoilers:

From the milestones issues that I read ( IM#600 and Action Comics #1000) this was the best by far. Great interaction between Spidey and his supporting cast, especially Mary Jane. She can take care of herself and is there for Peter ( she was wearing a coat similar to Gwen's?) Comparing to how she act in the storyline ( my least favorite ) Power Play, Slott is leaving some ground, so Spencer can work with them. But the whole situation with the Goblin child was underwhelming to me. It's not due to the storyline ,it's just I was expecting a more emotional outcome. About Flash... I think was emotional. I like him a lot, was very heroic. But in this 3 years that I've been reading comics, a ton of characters did die and then back, so I'm a bit tired of this. Old news to me. Not sure if I understand the post credit scene. Overall was very good, I like the general idea and the dialogue. I think 80 pages was just too much and the battle dragged a little too much for my taste. ... I like the art a lot. Especially the first part. Was full of colors and looked like a cartoon. And then the funeral was sober and not too much shining. Nice touch to fit the ocasions. Peter was great in this issue and his choices in this are very according to my ideia of what jind of hero Spider-Man is.

end of spoilers

[twenty2]

Well, I really liked this issue. I had that “I don’t know what’s going to happen + chill down the spine” feeling! What a great and fun read.

spoilers:

Flash made me cry. What I find amazing about comics is that as a medium they allow that writers work on characters’ development years in the making! He started as a bully and gone through so many things after that (college friend, best man, soldier, super-hero, etc.), dying a hero. Character development and things moving forward may be standard in nowadays popular TV shows, but they were certainly a novelty when Amazing Spider-Man 60’s era presented it to the readers. That’s why I can't really stand or accept major recons… Flash’s development through the years (pardon decades!) is beautiful. It reminds why I look at Peter Parker/Mary Jane relationship as the best fictional love relationship ever! It was really built up through the years making we care about the two of them. From the party girl attraction, to the epic “closing door” scene after Gwen’s death, to the love relationship, to the best friends and confidants relationship (the talk after MJ revealed that she knew Spider-man’s secret on Tom Defalco’s run is epic), to the wedding and so on.

end of spoilers

The cons:
Some of the dialogues felt kind off to me.

The variety of artists. As a reader I dislike having so many artists in one issue, the fact that the art changes constantly kind of breaks the pacing for me and interferes with the story’s identity as a whole. Plus, Marcos Martin was effective as always, but not as impressive as he usually is. I hope that he brings his A game in ASM 801. He has probably outranked Romita Jr as my favourite Spider-man artist.

Extra: Slott’s work with Doctor Octopus through this run is amazing, I don’t get why some people complain saying that Octopus being a bad guy doesn’t make sense. After all, he was heavily influenced by Peter Parker, the hero that inspires as all!

[Ana]

So did MJ do anything important this issue? I remember Celebuski saying she'd be getting some big developments or something like that as we transitioned into Spencer's run.

spoilers:

Yes. She is very kind and supportive to Peter. She faces Norman and defends Peter with an Iron Man's glove (arc reactor, something like this) and then gives him a nice motivacional speach.

end of spoilers

[Celgress]

Well, this happened. Two aspects of this issue I called months ago (along with many other users here). I honestly didn't like the story in general but to each his or her own, however, my dislike is probably because I prefer to be surprised with big issues and I wasn't. Although I can't argue with the execution which was fan-freakin'-tastic. Being fair I'll give it 4 out of 5 stars, very good work.

[Cmbmool]

spoilers:

From start to finish Dan Slott has proven that he knows his Spider-Man history. I meant the death in this issue is symbolic given the history behind Flash and Norman.

end of spoilers

[Hypestyle]

doc octopus is doing what now? uhh.... he's still a villain, right? (I won't accept anything else)...