What Was Tony Stark Like pre-Civil War?

[Sutekh]

Reed Richards comes to mind. Tony didn't create Clor or send the Hulk into space all by himself.

Reed, IMO, is orders of magnitude worse than Tony, because Tony himself admits to having flaws and sometimes getting it wrong.

Reed is always right (even when he turns out to be horribly wrong, at the end of the day), and if anyone else disagrees with him, including his wife and brother in law and best friend, it's because they are too stupid to keep up. He's like von Doom, with a better PR agent, because he skates every time.

Reed is sometimes written like a bastard child of the worst interpretations of Tony (overbearing elitist who wants to impose his own rules over the entire world, but not actually have the responsibility that comes with it, or apply those rules to himself) with the 'writers pet' that can sometimes crop up around Captain America (who can sometimes be written as never being wrong because he's got some sort of unassailable moral authority that comes with having 'America' in his name and being wrapped up in a flag, with the writer *telling* us why he's so awesome and respected instead of *showing* us him *being* awesome and earning respect).

I don't blame Reed for that, any more than I blame Tony for that, or Cap for that. All of them have been, at times, victims of some pretty terrible writing.

I'm particularly 'fond' of how Quesada, when asked how Reed was going to make up for *sending super-villain cape-killers authorized to use lethal force after his wife, brother-in-law and best friend, because they had a political disagreement about a law that hadn't been passed yet* and the reply was 'He'll cook her dinner or something.'

Just, wow.

"Also, I experimented on our son and he's in a coma. Here's a gift certificate for a mani-pedi at the day spa. We're all good, right?"

[Mark]

What it comes down to is that if you are a fan favorite or your character is interesting you can do what ever you want and the writers will either hush it up, rationalize it or just say it wasn't that bad. As long as sales are good at marvel right and wrong does not matter.

[pageturner]

Reed Richards comes to mind. Tony didn't create Clor or send the Hulk into space all by himself.

Tony did not create Clor at all. That was all Reed and Prull.

What it comes down to is that if you are a fan favorite or your character is interesting you can do what ever you want and the writers will either hush it up, rationalize it or just say it wasn't that bad. As long as sales are good at marvel right and wrong does not matter.

The story is the thing above all the story is the thing.

[Mark]

Tony did not create Clor at all. That was all Reed and Prull.




The story is the thing above all the story is the thing.

No, I think sales are the thing, the story can be good or bad but if it sells it's good.

Also Reed and Hank (who was a skrull) might have helped, but Tony wound Clor up and sent him out. Then Reed fixed him up and they sent him out again. Thor beat Tony up (before caving into him later) but Reed got an absolute pass from him for Clor and Sue was so weakly written that all it took was a second honey moon to silence her.

[MichaelC]

Reed, IMO, is orders of magnitude worse than Tony, because Tony himself admits to having flaws and sometimes getting it wrong.

Reed is always right (even when he turns out to be horribly wrong, at the end of the day), and if anyone else disagrees with him, including his wife and brother in law and best friend, it's because they are too stupid to keep up. He's like von Doom, with a better PR agent, because he skates every time.

Reed is sometimes written like a bastard child of the worst interpretations of Tony (overbearing elitist who wants to impose his own rules over the entire world, but not actually have the responsibility that comes with it, or apply those rules to himself) with the 'writers pet' that can sometimes crop up around Captain America (who can sometimes be written as never being wrong because he's got some sort of unassailable moral authority that comes with having 'America' in his name and being wrapped up in a flag, with the writer *telling* us why he's so awesome and respected instead of *showing* us him *being* awesome and earning respect).

I don't blame Reed for that, any more than I blame Tony for that, or Cap for that. All of them have been, at times, victims of some pretty terrible writing.

I'm particularly 'fond' of how Quesada, when asked how Reed was going to make up for *sending super-villain cape-killers authorized to use lethal force after his wife, brother-in-law and best friend, because they had a political disagreement about a law that hadn't been passed yet* and the reply was 'He'll cook her dinner or something.'

Just, wow.

"Also, I experimented on our son and he's in a coma. Here's a gift certificate for a mani-pedi at the day spa. We're all good, right?"

This, pretty much. Reed is one of Marvel's sacred cow characters. Like Captain America and Hulk, he's never really allowed to look really bad. Even if he does something that should in theory make him look horrible, writers will fudge things to make him right.

[pageturner]

No, I think sales are the thing, the story can be good or bad but if it sells it's good.

Also Reed and Hank (who was a skrull) might have helped, but Tony wound Clor up and sent him out. Then Reed fixed him up and they sent him out again. Thor beat Tony up (before caving into him later) but Reed got an absolute pass from him for Clor and Sue was so weakly written that all it took was a second honey moon to silence her.

When Clor or Ragnok was examined in Dark Avengers he was found to be made of Richards Tech not Stark Tech. Tony only supplied the hair, the creating was all Reed and Prull.

Readers are customers, so sales do and should matter.

[Mark]

When Clor or Ragnok was examined in Dark Avengers he was found to be made of Richards Tech not Stark Tech. Tony only supplied the hair, the creating was all Reed and Prull.

Readers are customers, so sales do and should matter.

Tony supplied the hair, it was a three man (2 man 1 impostor) effort.

[Mark]

This, pretty much. Reed is one of Marvel's sacred cow characters. Like Captain America and Hulk, he's never really allowed to look really bad. Even if he does something that should in theory make him look horrible, writers will fudge things to make him right.

If Clor had killed Sue or Johnny I would have loved to have seen Reed try to explain that to Franklin and Val.

[Myetche]

This, pretty much. Reed is one of Marvel's sacred cow characters. Like Captain America and Hulk, he's never really allowed to look really bad. Even if he does something that should in theory make him look horrible, writers will fudge things to make him right.

It helps that Reed's son is essentially God so that the writers can make an in-universe excuse for their fudging.

"Hey, Franklin! Your daddy screwed up the world again. I'll give you a raise in your allowance if you rewrite reality so that none of it ever happens and everybody still loves me."
"'Kay."

[Sighphi]

I haven't read any of Tony Stark's appearances prior to CW and have seen only a handful of him afterwards (mostly in Avengers books). What was he like prior to Civil War. How much of a jerk was he?

Stark has ALWAYS worked with the Govt, this jerk thing was just some BS created because of Civil War and apparently him being the bad guy on this. There one version of SHIELD where he creates it and even the first issue when Mandarin appears has the US Govt calling him to go to China to have Iron Man check out the Mandarin.

[pageturner]

Tony supplied the hair, it was a three man (2 man 1 impostor) effort.

supplying the hair counts as effort in your book? That is the kind of talk I usually hear from someone who has never done a days labor in their life.

Giving the hair is effort

[Minerboh]

Can anyone tell me when Tony mindwiped the world?

[StoneGold]

Can anyone tell me when Tony mindwiped the world?

Iron Man & Captain America Annual 1998. Written by Busiek, Stern and Waid. So grrrrr, nu marvel or something...

[Dayle88]

I can't remember if it was the Iron Man title or Spider-Man but in the lead up to Civil War you see Tony constantly in meetings trying to stop the Superhuman Registration Act going through and he takes Pete along with him for experience. Once he knows the law is going through he decides to be the figurehead to keep things under control. Of course, in the Civil War book itself we all know which way things went. It very easily could of been an incredible story where both sides of the argument were right and wrong, it wouldn't of affected the action or overall plot. Instead they outright made Tony and friends evil, making villainous decisions and propping Cap up on his high horse.

Tony being a business man probably alluded him to the fact that you can't defy the government, you have to play the game and hope you do enough to get your way. Another facet of Iron Man stories that has gone.

I just finished the Epic Collection of Byrne's run. Over the course of only a couple of issues you have a Stark Enterprises nuclear plant attacked that he saves, he then has to deal with workers protesting and storming the plant and then being attacked again. All while his body is giving up on him. He fights through and sorts everything anyway. How can it be that all these writers are getting him so wrong? Or more to the point WANT to get him so wrong.

[Tony Stark]

I can't remember if it was the Iron Man title or Spider-Man but in the lead up to Civil War you see Tony constantly in meetings trying to stop the Superhuman Registration Act going through and he takes Pete along with him for experience. Once he knows the law is going through he decides to be the figurehead to keep things under control. Of course, in the Civil War book itself we all know which way things went. It very easily could of been an incredible story where both sides of the argument were right and wrong, it wouldn't of affected the action or overall plot. Instead they outright made Tony and friends evil, making villainous decisions and propping Cap up on his high horse.

Tony being a business man probably alluded him to the fact that you can't defy the government, you have to play the game and hope you do enough to get your way. Another facet of Iron Man stories that has gone.

I just finished the Epic Collection of Byrne's run. Over the course of only a couple of issues you have a Stark Enterprises nuclear plant attacked that he saves, he then has to deal with workers protesting and storming the plant and then being attacked again. All while his body is giving up on him. He fights through and sorts everything anyway. How can it be that all these writers are getting him so wrong? Or more to the point WANT to get him so wrong.

It was in Spider-Man that Tony did that with Peter. Also alot of people forget that Nick Fury was the one that brought him the Registration Act. Not to Cap or anyone else, but Tony. I think he knew that Tony would be the best one to handle that situation.