What's your opinion on Sentry?

[Tendrin]

Titles just have a tough time in the current market. Not much more to it than that.

While I'm not disagreeing, what certain people /say/ when it comes to so-called 'diversity' titles and what they don't say about others is another thing all together.

[ENTRYS]

While I'm not disagreeing, what certain people /say/ when it comes to so-called 'diversity' titles and what they don't say about others is another thing all together.

Feel free to PM me your opinion, if you don't want to elaborate on it here. I'm a big fan of good arguments.

[Tendrin]

Feel free to PM me your opinion, if you don't want to elaborate on it here. I'm a big fan of good arguments.

It's simple, dude.

When a character of a certain demographic fails, there are all kinds of reasons that are trotted out and earnestly discussed. These characters often have received chances over and over again.

When a so-called 'diversity title' fails, it's because of diversity and 'SJWs pushing an agenda' and on and on. The comic may or may not have been good or bad on its own merits but its almost irrelevant to the discussion. It's failure is seen as a sign that 'the audience' is rejecting the 'SJW' agenda that's being 'shoved down their throats'.

[ENTRYS]

Edit: Actually, no. I don't want to derail this thread any further. Let's just hope that the Sentry book sells well.

[Thor-Ul]

How is that line of thinking working out for Star Wars? Spoiler: It isn't.

People on the far left aren't pushing any sales whatsoever. We see it in Marvel comics with the continuous low sales and cancellations of diversity books.
Same with Star Wars. 'The Last Jedi' is incredibly controversial among the fandom with the "The Force is Female" approach. 'Solo' has tanked incredibly hard considering it's a Star Wars movie. .

That is for discuss in the Star Wars Forum.

Trust me, Sentry being a straight caucasian male is the last thing that would cause any problems for the success of such a movie..

Of course. Race and identity of the characters should not be the traits to determinate success or failure of a movie. The success could either determinated by marketing or quality. But I was never talking about the success of a potential Sentry movie, I was meaning about the circunstances related to production of movies, and why Marvelstudios/Disney would green light a specific kind of movie. Yes, studios care about the money the most, but also they need to show a coherent discourse to the public or it can become a PR nightmare for the company, damaging not only their image but any future related product. I can think of two examples of recent data.

And you have negated it, but I personally think that people with mental health issues are not only incredibly under-represented in media, but also that when they do appear it often has a very negative feel to it. I've seen movies about schizophrenics, where it always ends up in them hearing voices and killing a bunch of people.
You imply that we need characters with different skin tones, sexualities, religions and so on, for some people to identify with them... Why can't the same apply to mental illnesses? I think that there are many people with mental issues, who would like to identify themselves with some characters. I personally am far more likely to identify with someone like the Sentry than with someone like Superman.

I never said than. I said than pretend than because Sentry has mental issues could classify him as a member of a minority is not a good excuse to include in the discourse of "we need more minority superheroes movies" from the studios and certain sectors of the "fandom" (and I put "fandom" with quotation marks because I always wonder if these really are fans). I always has been talked about the motives of why the studios would approve this specific motion picture.

Once say that,I agree with you. Persons with mental issue represents a huge percent of the population and they have an underrepresentation. But I don't think than superheroes movies is the best place to represent them. Nor the MCU( at least for the motives I previously explained) Nor other. Superheroes movies (now at least) gravitate more towards action and minimize other aspects of the story. And pop media in general directly got the psychological concepts wrong or in an outdated fashion. Did you know than the SPM/DID is under scrutiny as bogus/wrong diagnosis since several years already? And yet still is used in popular media as plot (Moon Knight, I'm lookig at you). Because is a good plot and narrative. But not a good representation of a reality. For better representations there are other movies or series or documentaries.

Also, you must remember than there already a character with mental issues who is having superhero movies: Deadpool. Is his illness well represented? But that doesn't affect the quality of the movie. It's just that aspect of the character have not the relevance than it had before. Legion does a better way, showing how the notion of reality is lost for many persons with these kind of problems, in no comical fashion.

Also, is Sentry the best representation for mental illness issues? The problem of Sentry is not his schizophrenia, it is his addiction. Bob Reynolds is addicted to being Sentry. That is his drama. Being Sentry implies that the Void would be there, causing destruction. And Bob knows that. And he understand than he can't control his addiction and that is why he erase his memory of existance in the first mini. Because he can't control the Void, the representation of his addiction. But the bright side is being this achetypical invulnerable hero. And he likes that. Wrong handled such concepts could even be readed as a glorification of addiction in a movie.

I'm taking as reference the original version of the character, theone from the first Jenkins minis and in the age of the Sentry mini. He has worked better in his own corner. But his management in the prime MU always has been dissapointing. Or is he a deus Ex machina or is he robbed of his conflict or is he doing nothing but wheeping.

A Sentry movie should be almost like a horror movie, where there is a monster lurking and destroying, with a man addicted to being a superhero, but who must quit to be tha superhero at the end to save the world. That or directly die. Or is everything happening in his head? I would use the writers from (X-men) Legion for a potential script. It would be awesome.

But such movie would be greenlight by Marvelstudios? I don't believe it. It goes against everything the MCU has built. And to make Sentry fit this context could rob the character everything than makes him Sentry. It would make him just another version of Hyperion.

Edit: Actually, no. I don't want to derail this thread any further. Let's just hope that the Sentry book sells well.

Back on topic, Sentry is a good character but in small doses. I hope his series could make the character work, but I still feel the character fullfilled his cycle long ago. Yet I accept it would be funny to see him team-up with Moon Knight.

[ENTRYS]

Once say that,I agree with you. Persons with mental issue represents a huge percent of the population and they have an underrepresentation. But I don't think than superheroes movies is the best place to represent them. Nor the MCU( at least for the motives I previously explained) Nor other. Superheroes movies (now at least) gravitate more towards action and minimize other aspects of the story.

That sounds to me as if you think to little of superhero movies.

I think it was Steven Spielberg, who compared superhero movies to western movies and said that eventually they would fade out and go away. I disagree with that comparison, because western movies were movies about a certain time period. That time period went out of style. People don't care as much about western movies, just like they don't care as much about pirates. Once you've seen one of those movies, you've seen them all, but just always with slightly different characters and stories. And I don't think that superhero movies share the same fate.

I personally like to compare superhero movies more to horror movies. I view superhero movies as their own genre, which have or at least have the potential for plenty of sub-genres. The horror genre has the teen slasher sub-genre, the haunted house sub-genre, the monster sub-genre, the psychological horror sub-genre and many others.
Look at superhero movies. Can you really compare Guardians of the Galaxy 1 to Captain America 2 (Winter Soldier)? You can't really. Guardians of the Galaxy 1 is a sci-fi comedy with superheroes, while Winter Soldier is a spy agent thriller with superheroes. Look at Ant-Man - it's a heist comedy. Look at the upcoming X-Men "The New Mutants", which is being marketed as a horror movie with superheroes. As long as you keep things fresh and vary the sub-genres, superhero movies won't be going away.

In my opinion we totally have the space in the superhero genre for a psychological thriller with Sentry as the superhero. Hell, you can easily make three Sentry movies and have them all have different tones. You can start of serious and realistic to show how it really would be to be a Superman archetype hero in the real world. You can get psychadelic and crazy in the second movie, if you bring in some of Sentrys more colorful enemies like Cranio. And you can get dark and twisted in the third movie with the Void fully manifesting and turning the life of the hero into a living nightmare.

Also, is Sentry the best representation for mental illness issues?

I do think that the Sentry is a good representation for mental illness. In World War Hulk (and in other instances) he wasn't able to leave his house due to his anxiety. Any person, who has struggled with real anxiety is going to tell you, that there are times in your anxiety-consumed life, where you're standing in your apartment and you have to go somewhere and do something, but you just can't. You walk around in circles, think about doing what you have to do, but you simply end up letting yourself down. Sentry always worries about a lot of things and makes decisions, which other people might have not made, if they had been in his shoes.
And then there is also the schizophrenia.

Addiction isn't a mental illness. The addiction in Sentrys case is just what keeps the plot going and him constantly returning as the Sentry. But it's not the only thing. It's not like Sentrys addiction is the only thing that keeps him being a hero. Deep down he is still a good person. He had found his peace after the events of Uncanny Avengers, but once Strange told him that someone was in trouble, Sentry still stepped in.

But such movie would be greenlight by Marvelstudios? I don't believe it. It goes against everything the MCU has built. And to make Sentry fit this context could rob the character everything than makes him Sentry. It would make him just another version of Hyperion.

Why not? They have portrayed Thanos as a tragic villain, who in his own mind is the good guy.

A character like the Sentry is very rare in the Marvel universe. On Earth Hyperion is the one of the few, if not the only one, who operates on Sentrys scale. Spider-Man thinks that he has some responsibility, but that doesn't even come close to the responsibility the Sentry has. That has been explored in SENTRY VOL 2 and in a bio we learned that all of that responsibility was wearing the Sentry down. He had the task to save the world, but that's an impossible task.

You can do that in Marvel movies, where no one really operates on a world wide scale at any given moment. And when you have catastrophes all over the world happening and people non-stop dying, Sentry should become more and more unstable. The Void would gain more and more control.
Then you would have this hero, who you actually want to succeed, since he is actually trying to save everyone, but he just can't be everywhere at once. And with him turning evil and into the phase 4 or phase 5 boss, you would have the most tragic villain of them all - easily surpassing Thanos by an insane margin. What's not to love about that?

[Golden Guardian of Good]

I'm sorry but why is the Sentry being a straight white male an issue? And what do people mean his film wouldn't do well because of that??

[Agent Z]

That sounds to me as if you think to little of superhero movies.

I think it was Steven Spielberg, who compared superhero movies to western movies and said that eventually they would fade out and go away. I disagree with that comparison, because western movies were movies about a certain time period. That time period went out of style. People don't care as much about western movies, just like they don't care as much about pirates. Once you've seen one of those movies, you've seen them all, but just always with slightly different characters and stories. And I don't think that superhero movies share the same fate.

I personally like to compare superhero movies more to horror movies. I view superhero movies as their own genre, which have or at least have the potential for plenty of sub-genres. The horror genre has the teen slasher sub-genre, the haunted house sub-genre, the monster sub-genre, the psychological horror sub-genre and many others.
Look at superhero movies. Can you really compare Guardians of the Galaxy 1 to Captain America 2 (Winter Soldier)? You can't really. Guardians of the Galaxy 1 is a sci-fi comedy with superheroes, while Winter Soldier is a spy agent thriller with superheroes. Look at Ant-Man - it's a heist comedy. Look at the upcoming X-Men "The New Mutants", which is being marketed as a horror movie with superheroes. As long as you keep things fresh and vary the sub-genres, superhero movies won't be going away.

In my opinion we totally have the space in the superhero genre for a psychological thriller with Sentry as the superhero. Hell, you can easily make three Sentry movies and have them all have different tones. You can start of serious and realistic to show how it really would be to be a Superman archetype hero in the real world. You can get psychadelic and crazy in the second movie, if you bring in some of Sentrys more colorful enemies like Cranio. And you can get dark and twisted in the third movie with the Void fully manifesting and turning the life of the hero into a living nightmare.



I do think that the Sentry is a good representation for mental illness. In World War Hulk (and in other instances) he wasn't able to leave his house due to his anxiety. Any person, who has struggled with real anxiety is going to tell you, that there are times in your anxiety-consumed life, where you're standing in your apartment and you have to go somewhere and do something, but you just can't. You walk around in circles, think about doing what you have to do, but you simply end up letting yourself down. Sentry always worries about a lot of things and makes decisions, which other people might have not made, if they had been in his shoes.
And then there is also the schizophrenia.

Addiction isn't a mental illness. The addiction in Sentrys case is just what keeps the plot going and him constantly returning as the Sentry. But it's not the only thing. It's not like Sentrys addiction is the only thing that keeps him being a hero. Deep down he is still a good person. He had found his peace after the events of Uncanny Avengers, but once Strange told him that someone was in trouble, Sentry still stepped in.



Why not? They have portrayed Thanos as a tragic villain, who in his own mind is the good guy.

A character like the Sentry is very rare in the Marvel universe. On Earth Hyperion is the one of the few, if not the only one, who operates on Sentrys scale. Spider-Man thinks that he has some responsibility, but that doesn't even come close to the responsibility the Sentry has. That has been explored in SENTRY VOL 2 and in a bio we learned that all of that responsibility was wearing the Sentry down. He had the task to save the world, but that's an impossible task.

You can do that in Marvel movies, where no one really operates on a world wide scale at any given moment. And when you have catastrophes all over the world happening and people non-stop dying, Sentry should become more and more unstable. The Void would gain more and more control.
Then you would have this hero, who you actually want to succeed, since he is actually trying to save everyone, but he just can't be everywhere at once. And with him turning evil and into the phase 4 or phase 5 boss, you would have the most tragic villain of them all - easily surpassing Thanos by an insane margin. What's not to love about that?

A movie about a superhero with mental illness could work but you need people behind it who know what they're doing and won't make the character a caricature. Media still suffers from demonizing and inaccurate depictions of mental illness and the Sentry, unfortunately, has not been exempt from this.

[Tendrin]

A movie about a superhero with mental illness could work but you need people behind it who know what they're doing and won't make the character a caricature. Media still suffers from demonizing and inaccurate depictions of mental illness and the Sentry, unfortunately, has not been exempt from this.

He really hasn't. Bendis alone is proof of that. And hell, just look at the way some fans resent him for 'crying all the time' and so on. Some people view what's on the page in pretty shallow ways.

It's telling that the only way some people can envision the Sentry is as a villain, because he's crazy see.

[Skedatz]

Bendis' take on the Sentry pretty much obliterated him for future use.

The skin deep and ham-fisted method of just giving him undefined "mental illness" and tremendous instability screwed that up harder than Hank backhanding his wife during his own mental breakdown. As he was portrayed, the Sentry should've been seen as a hundred times more dangerous to the team than any villain they fought. And the condescending nature the Sentry was treated with was the cherry on top for me.

[Tendrin]

Bendis' take on the Sentry pretty much obliterated him for future use.

The skin deep and ham-fisted method of just giving him undefined "mental illness" and tremendous instability screwed that up harder than Hank backhanding his wife during his own mental breakdown. As he was portrayed, the Sentry should've been seen as a hundred times more dangerous to the team than any villain they fought. And the condescending nature the Sentry was treated with was the cherry on top for me.

It can always be fixed, thankfully.

I mean, hell, Ares and Loki are both back :P

[ENTRYS]

I beliebe in Jeff Lemire. I knew him from his runs on Moon Knight and Thanos, which I liked, but in preparation for the upcoming Sentry book I checked out some of the other stuff by Jeff Lemire. And oh boy, does that man know how to write good stories and appealing dialogue. If someone can dive into the psyche of a mentally ill character and present it in a respectable manner, then it's Jeff Lemire.

[Skedatz]

It can always be fixed, thankfully.

I mean, hell, Ares and Loki are both back :P

His death in Siege might've been the best thing which could've happened to him.

If only so when he comes back, he can be "corrected."

I like the idea of the Sentry and all, but I dunno how well he can work on a team book. Lemire might have the chops, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little nervous about it.

[Tendrin]

His death in Siege might've been the best thing which could've happened to him.

If only so when he comes back, he can be "corrected."

I like the idea of the Sentry and all, but I dunno how well he can work on a team book. Lemire might have the chops, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little nervous about it.

The biggest mistake they made was changing Jenkins initial ongoing into a mini and letting Bendis go forward with him instead.

[Skedatz]

The biggest mistake they made was changing Jenkins initial ongoing into a mini and letting Bendis go forward with him instead.

I'd say this is a mistake in general.

Joking aside I agree. Even though I feel Jenkins did a good job wrapping up a short run, it was really Bendis who did the damage. Even Iron Man's "I can outrun the Sentry" arc had a better idea of how to handle the Sentry.


I keep trying to write Century like the other Iron Man related character and I don't know why.