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  1. #31
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    Yes...and when he entered college one reason was “I want Ben and Reed to be proud of me”, which I thought was significant for a number of reasons...for example, it suggested that some one who knew Ben really well felt that studying was important to him.

    And certainly Johhny’s best friend at college, Wyatt, self evidently believed in studying hard, and would hardly have teamed up with a slacker.

    All told Johnny’s present status as an eternal playboy doesn’t really gel with the way his character was shaping up in the original run. Just when did Groundhog Day set in?
    IIRC it was definitely after the Heroes Reborn era. Johnny had the crazy Skrull marriage just before that. There weren't that many girl friends around after the FF was relaunched but one of the ones I remember was Namorita. But I do recall a scene in the Millar/Hitch FF where he is frolicking in his apartment with 2 cosplaying women.

  2. #32
    insulin4all CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    The second was the fate of the advanced human that hatched out of the cocoon (that Alicia was kidnapped) to open. Whatever became of him?
    He got busy. That was Adam Warlock.


  3. #33
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    He got busy. That was Adam Warlock.

    Lol.

    Thanks...laughing at myself for never making the connection.

  4. #34
    insulin4all CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    Lol.

    Thanks...laughing at myself for never making the connection.
    I wasn't sure if you were seriously asking, but it was just another aspect of the Lee-Kirby FF idea machine.

  5. #35
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    I wasn't sure if you were seriously asking, but it was just another aspect of the Lee-Kirby FF idea machine.
    My "knowledge" of Adam Warlock was along the lines of "ultra-powerful dude who features in massive multi-hero cosmic yarns written by Jim Starlin"...the sort of stuff I often thumb through in library wondering who many of the characters are, but rarely been tempted to read closely...just not enjoyed the few Jim Starlin comics I've read.

  6. #36
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr3821 View Post
    I gotta get it!!! I don't EVER want to stop reading the FANTASTIC FOUR!
    I hope your bid is successful! If not, there's always Marvel Unlimited if you don't subscribe already. There's a site that has a lot of scans of Marvel House Ads, which I have to get that link for again. But it's always fun to see that kind of stuff.




  7. #37

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    I love those ads! Especially Amazing Adult Fantasy..."the Magazine that Respects your Intelligence!" He-he-he...ooh yeah!! The Fantastic Four shot below that is a very early Jack Kirby rendition of the team.

    I love those old Marvel house ads from the 1960s and 70s. They just have this charm to them. I would love that link. You know what is interesting, these stories aren't just the Fantastic Four at their beginning, but also MARVEL at it's beginning. Or at least the idea of a cohesive universe.

  8. #38
    insulin4all CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Early Marvel was full of stuff then that we find common now. Less one dimensional characters, more realistic reactions, and the use of guest stars and name-dropping as sales gimmicks. It's easy to look back over 55 years and smirk at the story and art compared with today's work, but compared with the average fare at the time, it was innovation.

  9. #39
    Ultimate Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr3821 View Post
    FANTASTIC FOUR #1, by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. Released August 8, 1961


    The team are in Central City (find that on a map), and Reed Richards is introduced. Reed for the first time fires the iconic "4" signal into the sky, alerting three other mysterious figures. Susan Storm is with a society friend, Ben Grimm is in a men's clothing store and Johnny Storm is working on a hot rod. It is interesting to read this earliest interpretation of the four. Ben Grimm is portrayed as very angry and rough, not anything like the lovable and humorous Thing that came later. Reed always has his pipe and doesn't look quite as "movie star handsome" as he would be drawn by later artists.

    There is a LOT of story here, comic readers got a lot back then for their measly dime. I like Jack Kirby's art a lot. I am reading a Marvel Masterwork and the art and coloring is gorgeous. The Thing is drawn more gruesome here, still rocky but in a different way from what I'm used to. And he really comes across as bitter. The Human Torch bursts into flames for the very first time in comics and proceeds to melt the hot rod he was working on. Ah, those young people!

    I cannot BELIEVE they crammed this introductory sequence, the origin of the team with their rocket and the Cosmic Rays and then have a whole part with the Mole Man and Monster Island. All in this 1 comic. Stan & Jack were working overtime back then.

    I wonder if Reed Richards got into any trouble from the military since he basically hijacked a rocket and then proceeded to crash it. The awesome Cosmic Rays turn these four hapless humans into the Fantastic Four. I wonder if Ben Grimm would have really joined them in real life? He having been turned into a hideous monster.

    The monsters portrayed are pretty cool. I wonder if any were in the recent Monsters Unleashed story. This first issue feels like a bridge between Marvel's monster mags of the 1950s and the superhero comics that were to come in the 1960s. I've always liked the Mole Man and its interesting to read him in his first appearance. He is a definite villain, but you can't help but feel sorry for him. I can't believe how quickly they wrap things up on the last two pages. Marvel crammed so much story content in here. It really is...fantastic.
    If you imagine that it is the height of the Cold War, and what or why the Americans are doing this with a single stage rocket, (considering Stan and Jack know the Gemini program used 3 stages), there is more to that story than meets the eye. I don’t think Reed was supposed to be an astronaut, and neither were the other 3. I think the single stage rocket was Reeds design, but he wasn’t as smart as when he was changed by cosmic rays into Mr Fantastic, and that’s why Reed made the mistake about shielding. I thing Reed panicked because of something like the project was going to be cancelled, so he didn’t want his life’s dream to be dumped on the scrap heap, and he never realise it’s completion, so he brazenly risked everyone’s lives and stole the rocket.

    But it’s more than that, I think. There could be some clandestine group behind the single stage rocket, who knew who they were dealing with (Reed), and could press his buttons and make him go on that flight, because they knew Reed would steal the rocket if they blackmailed him about his baby (the single stage rocket). (Note how Sue panicked accusing Ben of cowardous to reflect how she was so emotionally swept up with Reed). If the clandestine group gets Reed and his crew up into space, they could succeed in the experiment to see what effect cosmic rays have on humans. It succeeded beyond their wildest dreams but it was so scary, they decided to never create more cosmic supermen.
    Last edited by jackolover; 06-05-2018 at 05:13 AM.

  10. #40
    Ultimate Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr3821 View Post
    FANTASTIC FOUR #2, released in October 1961


    THEY WERE MERCILESS! THEY WERE INHUMAN! THEY HAD POWERS FAR GREATER THAN EARTHMEN! THEY WERE THE DEADLY SKRULLS FROM OUTER SPACE!

    Funny how that sounds like a 1950s monster movie ad line. Issue two of FANTASTIC FOUR debuts those green-skinned Skrulls to the slowly emerging Marvel mythos. They definitely come across as more of a true menace than the Mole Man. As four Skrulls impersonate our fabulous quartet, the real McCoys are hiding out in a cabin in the woods. The Thing is furious at being hunted down and wants action, while Reed wants to talk. Ben is not the cute idol o' millions in these early adventures. He is bitter, angry and confused at being turned into a hideous monster.

    It is fascinating to read these early issues. Things haven't quite become concrete and stable as we know them now, especially the character of the Thing. Susan is so innocent. The book was still evolving and Stan and Jack were finding their way. No costumes yet, for instance. And the team dynamic was still in flux.

    I like the part where the Thing storms out of the cabin and you see the other three whispering that they are losing control of him. He may have to be stopped, but Reed blames himself for the whole situation. (As he SHOULD!!) It seems Marvel was trying to set this book apart from DC's JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA, which at the time was a huge-seller. Marvel wanted to show their team with conflict, while DC's team was so perfect and staid. Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and the rest always got along, while early FF did not get along at all. This was all done on purpose, I think.

    It's funny how modest Marvel was back then. Their company name is just a simple "MC" on the covers. And the credits are just a handwritten "Stan Lee and J. Kirby" here. The Skrull threat is taken care of. The invasion of Earth is halted. The heroes win the day. But the Skrulls will be a continual threat to our fantastic quarter. The ones who actually impersonated the FF are turned into cows. Which is later brought up again in a John Byrne story in the 1980s, if I remember right.
    In episode #1, the CIA asked the FF to come to a detailed briefing on the Mole Man incidents around the world. At least here the FF are shown to have some usefulness to the government.

    But in episode #2, when the imposter Skrulls start creating chaos as the FF, the real FF are quickly thrown to the wolves and are hunted by the military as menaces and captured and locked up in special cells made to Neutralize their powers. It is a humiliating result for the real FF, because it shows what the government would do to supermen if they were deemed to be menaces. No quarter given, just blow them up with tank fire, if they didn’t hand themselves in. A far cry from the Justice League.

  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    If you imagine that it is the height of the Cold War, and what or why the Americans are doing this with a single stage rocket, (considering Stan and Jack know the Gemini program used 3 stages), there is more to that story than meets the eye. I don’t think Reed was supposed to be an astronaut, and neither were the other 3. I think the single stage rocket was Reeds design, but he wasn’t as smart as when he was changed by cosmic rays into Mr Fantastic, and that’s why Reed made the mistake about shielding. I thing Reed panicked because of something like the project was going to be cancelled, so he didn’t want his life’s dream to be dumped on the scrap heap, and he never realise it’s completion, so he brazenly risked everyone’s lives and stole the rocket.
    You make some good points. I never thought that the Cosmic Rays actually made Reed SMARTER. Has that ever been confirmed in a comic? If what you say is true, then Reed's actions are brazen and reckless since he, nor Ben, were ever meant to pilot that rocket.

    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover
    But it’s more than that, I think. There could be some clandestine group behind the single stage rocket, who knew who they were dealing with (Reed), and could press his buttons and make him go on that flight, because they knew Reed would steal the rocket if they blackmailed him about his baby (the single stage rocket). (Note how Sue panicked accusing Ben of cowardous to reflect how she was so emotionally swept up with Reed). If the clandestine group gets Reed and his crew up into space, they could succeed in the experiment to see what effect cosmic rays have on humans. It succeeded beyond their wildest dreams but it was so scary, they decided to never create more cosmic supermen.
    Any theories on who that group might be?

  12. #42
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr3821 View Post
    I love those ads! Especially Amazing Adult Fantasy..."the Magazine that Respects your Intelligence!" He-he-he...ooh yeah!! The Fantastic Four shot below that is a very early Jack Kirby rendition of the team.

    I love those old Marvel house ads from the 1960s and 70s. They just have this charm to them. I would love that link. You know what is interesting, these stories aren't just the Fantastic Four at their beginning, but also MARVEL at it's beginning. Or at least the idea of a cohesive universe.
    The one I browse is in tumblr is tagged themarvelageofcomics and has a variety of covers, ads, page that they uploaded pretty regularly. There's also this one called Vintage Comic Book Ads has a lot too and it the "sister site" of the comicbookbrowser.com

    Here's a few more vintage ads




  13. #43
    Amazing Member Kirkpatrick's Avatar
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    Good stuff. I've been doing this for months now (recently expanded to some other series as well), and just finished issue #335, pretty much start of Walt Simonson's run.

    Hope you stick with it.

  14. #44
    Mighty Member Darkseid Is's Avatar
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    They put a lot of the ads at the end of the epic collection. They're just great.

    Just read issue 13. Reminded me of the Star Trek episode Arena kind of, with the godly being (the Watcher) having the FF fight the Red Ghost and his apes on the moon. Pretty crazy stuff.

  15. #45
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    I started doing this YEARS ago. I read 1-416, including all the major crossovers, and 1-12 of vol 2. I stopped at issue 1 of vol 3 but will have to pick it back up sometime. I've read a lot of the other FF in between- Waid, Hickman, Fraction, Robinson and Hickman's Avengers through Secret Wars.

    If you're going to do a read through of any series, FF is one of the better choices. I do find it funny that so many people care about FF now that its coming back who were the same people two years ago constantly repeating what everyone else was saying along the lines of, "The FF should be retired they just don't fit in modern times, I'm glad they finally ended the series." or "The FF have horrible sales track record." People essentially parrot opinions they read online as their own without thinking.

    I'm glad they're coming back but the current Marvel climate of less than stellar books has me a little concerned. Hopefully Slott can treat it the right way and not like he portrayed Norin Radd.

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